Mission Fail On Def

[VieuxPappy]

Since I started playing I always REALLY enjoyed this game. Never had any complaint. NEVER.

Now I have one.

Loosing at wave 15-20 cuz you have lower lvled or geared player(s) in your team or cuz of a player that is just less skilled, or a guy that goes afk,etc etc etc. So many bad ways to easily lose all you mods/ressources you dropped on a defence map. I completly agree with the concept of fighting rushers that disconnects after beating a boss, but this "mission fail = lose everything beside xp" in defence missions is really bad. Now I don't feel like doing defence missions with random people anymore and risk loosing 20+ mods I dropped.

[Satori_Mind]

Since I started playing I always REALLY enjoyed this game. Never had any complaint. NEVER.

Now I have one.

Loosing at wave 15-20 cuz you have lower lvled or geared player(s) in your team or cuz of a player that is just less skilled, or a guy that goes afk,etc etc etc. So many bad ways to easily lose all you mods/ressources you dropped on a defence map. I completly agree with the concept of fighting rushers that disconnects after beating a boss, but this "mission fail = lose everything beside xp" in defence missions is really bad. Now I don't feel like doing defence missions with random people anymore and risk loosing 20+ mods I dropped.

 

So why didn't you leave when you were offered the chance?

[VieuxPappy]

Cuz I could not know when the new players would F*** up and die miserably in the rush of the 20th wave just before we were offered to leave... hurrr durrr

[Satori_Mind]

Cuz I could not know when the new players would F*** up and die miserably in the rush of the 20th wave just before we were offered to leave... hurrr durrr

 

You willingly risked everything you had gained so far on 1-3 total strangers when you knew you were incapable of doing it alone.  You gambled and lost.

[VieuxPappy]

If I wanted to gamble, I would either go play some other games or go to the casino. I'm playing the game to not get frustrated but have fun, feel badass (space ninja fast paced shooter) and feel like improving my character (AKA dropping mods and lvling my gear).

[Inberun]

Never continue a DM when 2 or more teammates leave.

[VieuxPappy]

Never continue a DM when 2 or more teammates leave.

Ok so now I have to play according to other players? I thought this game was more about having fun, shooting stuff at fast pace, and not worrying about other players coming and going... is it now becoming similar to LoL or other multiplayer games where a single player leaving = autolost?

Now, most people (like me) won't do defence missions anymore because it's too dependent of the "quality" and quantity of the players in your team, which you do not control. Factors you do not control that states if you win or not = Really not cool and can lead to unessecary frustration. This feels more like a hardcore mode forced upon players. Casual players do not like this.

 

Edited April 21, 2013 by VieuxPappy

[Argoms]

Play other missions then. Defense missions are the only real challenge so far in this game.

[SiemperNL]

I agree, this is something that needs to be looked at. DEFENSE mode is something totally different...

[boubouqc]

Personally they should make a difference between Aborting mission and Failing a mission. it would be better because it happen to me i had over 15+ mod and I failed the defense mission and lost everything, it stupid to waste 1 hour and more for NOTHING.

[Tetsmeha]

Why don't you just play solo there's an option for private and solo.

[Ghobe]

I still don't understand why people are fighting so hard for this...why do you people expect to get something out of failing? Who cares how long or hard it was....you failed. Are you people not familiar with failure or something?

 

Defense missions are currently the best way to farm mods, if there wasn't some sort of drawback...that would just be ridiculous.

 

Ok so now I have to play according to other players?

Warframe is a cooperative free-to-play third person online action game set in an evolving sci-fi world. Join your friends in player-vs-enemy raids across the solar system and master the power of the Warframes.

Oh how silly you sound...

 

I fully back DE's decision to add punishment to failure, even if you did not personally die, and let the mission objective be destroyed. Kids are way too entitled these days...

[VieuxPappy]

 

Oh how silly you sound...

 

I fully back DE's decision to add punishment to failure, even if you did not personally die, and let the mission objective be destroyed. Kids are way too entitled these days...

"kids"?  I'm pretty sure you're younger then me dear sir (if sir you are).

Also, there's a difference between cooperating and crutching on other players (like new players). New players will just screw the defence (and let's not forget bugs like the rollers getting stuck inside the reactor so you can't shoot at it,etc), they are dead weight. And cuz at the moment there is no way to know the lvl and loadout of other players in the group, you absolutely gotta be on skype/TS/vent with the 3 other players, no way to go "online" and just play with random players. Considering me and my friends have kids, a job and/or university to attend to, we don't play often together cuz our scheduls don't match most of the time. When I'm back home and I want to get some free time and relax I get on video games like warframe, a GAME, so ya know... something to have fun, not to get frustrated...

[gamefreak9149]

I was all for this change at first, now I am against this change as well. At first I was a great idea to me to, then it finally happened on wave 24. A roller got stuck in the reactor, no aoes could hit it, or bullets, nothing at all. We lost everything because the game got a roller thing stuck inside a place we couldn't hit. Another example was I was on my frost on wave 14 of a corpus defense missions, I used snow globe to stop all them from attacking the object for a few to give us time to recover and start to clean some of the mobs up. The issue was it was taken out by some rail-gun moas shooting though the globe taking 20% of its life each time, it already took a huge hit so didn't have its full life from the wave before. Just Monday night, the host left and it failed to host migrate so we lost everything regardless.

 

So to they fix every little bug I am against this change. Heck saving all our mods every 5 waves would be a great idea I think.

[VieuxPappy]

I was all for this change at first, now I am against this change as well. At first I was a great idea to me to, then it finally happened on wave 24. A roller got stuck in the reactor, no aoes could hit it, or bullets, nothing at all. We lost everything because the game got a roller thing stuck inside a place we couldn't hit. Another example was I was on my frost on wave 14 of a corpus defense missions, I used snow globe to stop all them from attacking the object for a few to give us time to recover and start to clean some of the mobs up. The issue was it was taken out by some rail-gun moas shooting though the globe taking 20% of its life each time, it already took a huge hit so didn't have its full life from the wave before. Just Monday night, the host left and it failed to host migrate so we lost everything regardless.

 

So to they fix every little bug I am against this change. Heck saving all our mods every 5 waves would be a great idea I think.

It's exactly my thoughts. Saving at each 5 waves would also be great and maybe even fix the whole issue for def missions.

Edited April 23, 2013 by VieuxPappy

[Ghobe]

"kids"?  I'm pretty sure you're younger then me dear sir (if sir you are).

Kid can be a reference to the following: physical, mental, and attitude; hell it can even be a nickname.

 

As to your arguments

 

I've made it up through wave 25 with a pug before choosing to leave for a mod I wanted. No audible communication, no maxed out weapons/frames, no sixth sense, a pug.

 

A bug is never and should never be a valid argument point. You should be begging the mods to fix the bug, not to create a failsafe for when bugs happen.

 

And those are the only two arguments I saw...the rest was just you coming up with excuses.

 

As to saving every 5 waves. I could possibly live with that...and I can definitely live without it.

 

When you lose it should sting, not be something that is a slight inconvencience.

 

 

EDIT: You may play games for the pure "fun" aspect, but don't you forget there's a crowd out there that plays them for the challenge. I won't get on your case for wanting a game with no failure, but that is not Warframe. If it was, we wouldn't have levels nor energy limits. After all, those would just delay the "fun" right? Btw, I keep quoting "fun" because it's a very opinionated subject.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Ghobe

[Thaumatos]

Kid can be a reference to the following: physical, mental, and attitude; hell it can even be a nickname.

 

Or it could just be used as an insult...like it most normally is via internet forums and the like.  Nice job trying to take your own words out of context though.  Your phrase, "Kids are way too entitled these days." sure doesn't sound like you're referring to his nickname, "Kid Jones" ....

 

 

I've made it up through wave 25 with a pug before choosing to leave for a mod I wanted. No audible communication, no maxed out weapons/frames, no sixth sense, a pug.

 

Good job?

 

The truth to this situation is that you hadn't gotten any mods you weren't willing to lose and your time spent on that map was expendable.  If you had found the mod you wanted within the first 5 waves, or you were worried about the xp you gained, you would have stopped at the first checkpoint for fear of losing progress.  The fact that you exited the game because you wanted something is the simple proof that reward is more important than challenge to you.  Otherwise you would have continued until you failed.

 

You're playing the defense mission because you want to farm.  Thats good, but some of us want to play for the challenge.  We want to see just how far we can push the envelope.  We still can, but now we need to have 3 other players on our team who won't, like you, leave when they get what they want because they're afraid to lose it in the next 5 rounds.  As you've demonstrated yourself through action, that's hard to come by in a pug.  Even when that pug gets as high as wave 25, loot still pulls the players away.

 

A bug is never and should never be a valid argument point. You should be begging the mods to fix the bug, not to create a failsafe for when bugs happen.

 

Actually what you should do, with a bug that currently exists and will effect your gameplay changes, is fix the bug FIRST before making said changes.  This was obviously a move made by DE as a quick fix because of how badly people were log-farming boss runs.

 

 

And those are the only two arguments I saw...the rest was just you coming up with excuses.

 

As to saving every 5 waves. I could possibly live with that...and I can definitely live without it.

 

When you lose it should sting, not be something that is a slight inconvencience.

 

The word "sting" describing your opinion of the effect losing progress has.  A really bad "sting" would be having to start over entirely.  Ever since Diablo 2 people have called anything that doesn't kill your character on death "softcore" ... Well, are you up for HC Warframe or does your entirely subjective point of view on "when you lose it should sting" stop before having to re-make your character from square one?

 

Argue against HC Warframe and prove my point.  Argue for HC Warframe and push yourself even further down into the masochistic gamer minority.

 

EDIT: You may play games for the pure "fun" aspect, but don't you forget there's a crowd out there that plays them for the challenge. I won't get on your case for wanting a game with no failure, but that is not Warframe. If it was, we wouldn't have levels nor energy limits. After all, those would just delay the "fun" right? Btw, I keep quoting "fun" because it's a very opinionated subject.

 

Don't forget the term "challenge" is completely subjective too.  We can do this for an eternity, but its got to stop sometime.

 

The point is, people want a gauntlet in this game.  In a gauntlet, you don't quit when the going gets rough because you might lose all of your progress.  The reason of having a gauntlet in the first place is to see just how far you can go.

[Vilesavant]

Ok so now I have to play according to other players? I thought this game was more about having fun, shooting stuff at fast pace, and not worrying about other players coming and going... is it now becoming similar to LoL or other multiplayer games where a single player leaving = autolost?

Now, most people (like me) won't do defence missions anymore because it's too dependent of the "quality" and quantity of the players in your team, which you do not control. Factors you do not control that states if you win or not = Really not cool and can lead to unessecary frustration. This feels more like a hardcore mode forced upon players. Casual players do not like this.

 

 

And like the 609385938 other posts on this subject. There is nothing stopping you from finding like minded people to agree to what wave you are going for and getting all the mods you want. DE_Steve posted that this particular change was to stop players from abusing this mission type because of how easy it is to farm. You even said yourself in this thread 20+mods lost because of a fail, and like someone else put in this thread: You gambled, you lost. You could have played any other mission type but you chose Defense because you want the loot. You failed, you lost your loot. Sorry, but thems the breaks.

[--SAiNT--]

defense missions r kool , just my 2cent.

[VieuxPappy]

And like the 609385938 other posts on this subject. There is nothing stopping you from finding like minded people to agree to what wave you are going for and getting all the mods you want. DE_Steve posted that this particular change was to stop players from abusing this mission type because of how easy it is to farm. You even said yourself in this thread 20+mods lost because of a fail, and like someone else put in this thread: You gambled, you lost. You could have played any other mission type but you chose Defense because you want the loot. You failed, you lost your loot. Sorry, but thems the breaks.

Plz show me where he said it was for defence missions. In fact, I watched the streaming they did, and this is a fix for ppl that farm bosses then leave, not completing missions... totally nothing to do with defence missions. Also, The way the mods drop, it is inconsistent and yes you get 20+ mods, but most of them anyway (if not ALL) are trash that you sell because you either don't/can't use them (other frames skill mods) or you don't need duplicate anymore. So when you get the ONE you've been looking for for hours then you lose it for something out of your control... madness.

 

Or it could just be used as an insult...like it most normally is via internet forums and the like.  Nice job trying to take your own words out of context though.  Your phrase, "Kids are way too entitled these days." sure doesn't sound like you're referring to his nickname, "Kid Jones" ....

 

 

 

Good job?

 

The truth to this situation is that you hadn't gotten any mods you weren't willing to lose and your time spent on that map was expendable.  If you had found the mod you wanted within the first 5 waves, or you were worried about the xp you gained, you would have stopped at the first checkpoint for fear of losing progress.  The fact that you exited the game because you wanted something is the simple proof that reward is more important than challenge to you.  Otherwise you would have continued until you failed.

 

You're playing the defense mission because you want to farm.  Thats good, but some of us want to play for the challenge.  We want to see just how far we can push the envelope.  We still can, but now we need to have 3 other players on our team who won't, like you, leave when they get what they want because they're afraid to lose it in the next 5 rounds.  As you've demonstrated yourself through action, that's hard to come by in a pug.  Even when that pug gets as high as wave 25, loot still pulls the players away.

 

 

Actually what you should do, with a bug that currently exists and will effect your gameplay changes, is fix the bug FIRST before making said changes.  This was obviously a move made by DE as a quick fix because of how badly people were log-farming boss runs.

 

 

 

The word "sting" describing your opinion of the effect losing progress has.  A really bad "sting" would be having to start over entirely.  Ever since Diablo 2 people have called anything that doesn't kill your character on death "softcore" ... Well, are you up for HC Warframe or does your entirely subjective point of view on "when you lose it should sting" stop before having to re-make your character from square one?

 

Argue against HC Warframe and prove my point.  Argue for HC Warframe and push yourself even further down into the masochistic gamer minority.

 

 

Don't forget the term "challenge" is completely subjective too.  We can do this for an eternity, but its got to stop sometime.

 

The point is, people want a gauntlet in this game.  In a gauntlet, you don't quit when the going gets rough because you might lose all of your progress.  The reason of having a gauntlet in the first place is to see just how far you can go.

This is exactly how I feel. +1

Edited April 24, 2013 by VieuxPappy

[Dasmir]

Cuz this new system nobody wants to play over wave 5...

[Argoms]

Cuz this new system nobody wants to play over wave 5...

The clan I'm in plays over wave 5 all the time. Sure we often overextend and lose our stuff, but then we just try again :P

[Vilesavant]

Plz show me where he said it was for defence missions. In fact, I watched the streaming they did, and this is a fix for ppl that farm bosses then leave, not completing missions... totally nothing to do with defence missions. Also, The way the mods drop, it is inconsistent and yes you get 20+ mods, but most of them anyway (if not ALL) are trash that you sell because you either don't/can't use them (other frames skill mods) or you don't need duplicate anymore. So when you get the ONE you've been looking for for hours then you lose it for something out of your control... madness.

 

 

 

There you go, and by the way. You were the one pointing out defense missions, which is what I was talking about. But here's what you wanted. This is what DE_Steve replied to probably the first person to point this out.

 

ethics, on 19 Apr 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

I applaud the changes but how does this work with endless defense currently when you fail you keep your mods acquired so far. According to what you say if we don't exit on a multiple of 5 (i.e actually win) then we lose everything?

 

I fear this will make people quit at 5 or 10 in order to make sure they get rewards, especially in pugs.

Correct, this mission type is about risk/reward tradeoffs. There was no risk before. We also feel this will help with the situation that certain players are *only* playing this gametype since there was no risk and it was the easist way to farm.

[Mrblurr]

It's exactly my thoughts. Saving at each 5 waves would also be great and maybe even fix the whole issue for def missions.

And we have a fix! This makes things more fair to someone who plays 19 waves (15 with his buds) and 2-3 randoms that joined at 16 who weren't geared well. The randoms don't get much cause they joined and got killed, but his stuff was saved at 15 so he gets all the mods from 15 back to 1. I think this is fair and balanced for players. Heck, even every 10 waves would be ok.

[Ghobe]

Good job?

 

The truth to this situation is that you hadn't gotten any mods you weren't willing to lose and your time spent on that map was expendable.  If you had found the mod you wanted within the first 5 waves, or you were worried about the xp you gained, you would have stopped at the first checkpoint for fear of losing progress.  The fact that you exited the game because you wanted something is the simple proof that reward is more important than challenge to you.  Otherwise you would have continued until you failed.

 

You're playing the defense mission because you want to farm.  Thats good, but some of us want to play for the challenge.  We want to see just how far we can push the envelope.  We still can, but now we need to have 3 other players on our team who won't, like you, leave when they get what they want because they're afraid to lose it in the next 5 rounds.  As you've demonstrated yourself through action, that's hard to come by in a pug.  Even when that pug gets as high as wave 25, loot still pulls the players away.

I was only proving that it could be done. I left because the MISSION REWARD was a mod I wanted, a.k.a. I HAD to leave if I wanted it. I couldn't tack it on to the rest of my collection up to that point(which I've brought up as an issue in past threads). At the same time I was pretty much at the limit of what my weapons/warframe could do at that point, and the rest of the group left WITH me. Call it what you want, call me what you want, but the game is still missing some needed features. This situation is only so "bad" right now because the other features aren't in place yet. Calm down.

 

The word "sting" describing your opinion of the effect losing progress has.  A really bad "sting" would be having to start over entirely.  Ever since Diablo 2 people have called anything that doesn't kill your character on death "softcore" ... Well, are you up for HC Warframe or does your entirely subjective point of view on "when you lose it should sting" stop before having to re-make your character from square one?

 

Argue against HC Warframe and prove my point.  Argue for HC Warframe and push yourself even further down into the masochistic gamer minority.

Do I think it needs to go that far for the average player? No. Do I think it should be an option that people can opt-for? Yes. I have played on hardcore modes similar to the diablo system one, I've also done it both successfully and unsuccessfully. Will I jump straight into it on a game? No. Why? I feel I need extensive knowledge on the game before attempting that. Also, there is a difference between a sting, and having a limb removed, you should really learn that.

 

The point is, people want a gauntlet in this game.  In a gauntlet, you don't quit when the going gets rough because you might lose all of your progress.  The reason of having a gauntlet in the first place is to see just how far you can go.

No part of that says that you should be rewarded for your effort. However, gauntlets also typically have an end, our defense missions don't. By definition...

Go through an intimidating or dangerous crowd, place, or experience in order to reach a goal.

What is our goal? The reward presented every 5 levels? The amassment of mods along the way? The thing is you have to REACH it, you can't come up short.