Suikast Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Why be against it? If they purely go for PvE they can concentrate on it a 100% and do awesoem things on it without the need to worry about PvP balance. If they go PvE + PvP eventually the elitists will take over the forums, they demand drastic changes called "balance", DE need to make the manpower 50%-50% on both project. So we would only get a mediocore gameplay on both sides. Thats why. PvP is not just about shooting at eachother... Just no. Don't make Warframe another PvP game. Have mercy on 1 game and don't make it another $&*&*#(%& game. Let ti be unique as it was planned. If there is no warframe abilities, I dont think there is much to worry. People wouldnt ask for so special maps or so different mods since its mainly PvE. There would be clan wars. Clan rankings... Having a clan would make more sense rather than adding some friends. Ppl would try to make the best build posibble. And so on. "PvP is not just about shooting at eachother" ??? Anyway there is always going to be people who want PvP and who doesnt want. No need to argue about it. @Dat_Girth nice ideas = ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b00zy Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If there is no warframe abilities, I dont think there is much to worry. People wouldnt ask for so special maps or so different mods since its mainly PvE. There would be clan wars. Clan rankings... Having a clan would make more sense rather than adding some friends. Ppl would try to make the best build posibble. And so on. "PvP is not just about shooting at eachother" ??? Anyway there is always going to be people who want PvP and who doesnt want. No need to argue about it. @Dat_Girth nice ideas = ) ya lets just add a really S#&$ty pvp mode... I mean that is what you are asking for is a really terrible and S#&$ty pvp mode I don't understand some of you people at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suikast Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 ya lets just add a really S#&$ty pvp mode... I mean that is what you are asking for is a really terrible and S#&$ty pvp mode I don't understand some of you people at all Not having so many maps or so many game mods make pvp ****ty? Yeah Whatever : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'll never fully understand why people latch onto a game and, despite being clearly advertised as the opposite, ask for pvp. Boggles my mind, that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joos Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 boss fights like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suikast Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 not sure who said that or where you see that but sometime ago I was playing with one of DE staff and he asked to the tree of us in the match if we'd like PvP around so I'd say it's not exactly that impossible to see PvP on Warframe nor that they dont think about that at all ... I'll never fully understand why people latch onto a game and, despite being clearly advertised as the opposite, ask for pvp. Boggles my mind, that. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 ? Don't give me that bologna. This game was widely advertised as a coop third person shooter from multiple well known sites including the official warframe website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikab Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Don't give me that bologna. This game was widely advertised as a coop third person shooter from multiple well known sites including the official warframe website. Don't even try to convince them... They are like zombies. Instead of Brains all they can think of is PeeeveeeePeeeee.... Worse thing when they start to say "How hard can it be to implement PvP?" <--- Now this breaks the chill-meter inside me. They have literally zero idea of how much work is it and how much source would it take away from the PvE. Edited January 13, 2013 by Sikab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suikast Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) @Katakuna Co-op games cant have some kind of pvp? I see. Don't even try to convince them... They are like zombies. Instead of Brains all they can think of is PeeeveeeePeeeee.... Worse thing when they start to say "How hard can it be to implement PvP?" <--- Now this breaks the chill-meter inside me. They have literally zero idea of how much work is it and how much source would it take away from the PvE. "start" to say? I was commenting about so called balance you talked about. Who said it was hard or easy? You dont have to accept what i think. But you ve to show some respect. You have no right to call people zombie-like or whatever just because they dont think same as you, just because they want pvp. You re quite rude. Edited January 13, 2013 by Suikast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It's not that they can't, but it isn't the focus. It would be akin to the failure that was Global Agenda, trying to appease everybody. Besides, as mentioned before, pvp brings a fair amount of new unnecessary problems to the table, one such issue being balance. It isn't as easy as "take away the abilities"; just leaves us with cool looking guys shooting at each other. Bland. Stale. Boring. There is plenty to worry about when splitting the attention of the devs in half just to appease the vocal minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slodin Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 its stated that new maps will come..but they take time( I devloped maps before too for some games for fun, and it takes a lot of time to plan and make) they also said, no PvP...although I do perfer like 1vs1 duel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikab Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) @Katakuna Co-op games cant have some kind of pvp? I see. "start" to say? I was commenting about so called balance you talked about. Who said it was hard or easy? You dont have to accept what i think. But you ve to show some respect. You have no right to call people zombie-like or whatever just because they dont think same as you, just because they want pvp. You re quite rude. There is a quote in my country where i live.: "Akinek nem inge, ne vegye magára" It roughly translates into: "If it's not your Shirt, don't take it on"... You feel like you are one of those "zombies" that you should be hurt by it? I didn't said names, didn't point fingers. Ppl can read it, and decide themselves if they fall in that category or not. You made your desicion. Edited January 13, 2013 by Sikab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 they also said, no PvP...although I do perfer like 1vs1 duel 1v1 duels I can get behind. Something like the duels in the Borderlands games, duking it out with friends for fun and in some cases, who gets the legendary weapon that a boss dropped. The latter may not apply in this game, but you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnissiah19 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 it would be cool if they added raid type lvls were it can be an 8 man squad and its harder than the other ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikab Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 it would be cool if they added raid type lvls were it can be an 8 man squad and its harder than the other ones nice idea :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collussus Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Seeing as i haven't seen anyone mention it. DE did mention Borderlands type PVP is something they're thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Blacksmith Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 As a preface to this post, let me say that I am a big fan of PvP and PvP in a lot of different games. However, I believe that Warframes should either be PvP free, or with very limited, non-rewarded PvP. Anyways. As others have said, it's not as simple as "Just add PvP". Firstly, it takes money and manpower to design, code, implement and then most of all maintain PvP within a game. Where does this money and manpower come from? Normally, and especially in the case of an indie developer, this comes from taking from the other aspects of the game, namely PvE. This game is first and foremest designed and advertised as a Co-op PvE game. Taking funding and manpower away from that aspect of the game is detrimental to not just the PvE aspect, but the overall game itself. You also can't just add "PvP with no powers". If it's not obvious to you (in which case, facepalm), this idea would make redundant a major aspect of the game, namely the different types of Warframes. It would also become stale, stagnant and ultimately boring VERY fast. Now, let's assume DE add PvP with powers into the game. What happens then? Well, PvE loses a lot of manpower and money, as already stated, but the main issue is that the game must then be balanced around PvP. Why is that? There are two reasons - firstly, unlike PvE, having OP/UP Warframes and Powers in PvP makes it incredibly frustrating, boring and one-dimensional. Everyone would practically be forced into rolling that one Warframe with the ridiculous power (Volt with Overload says hi), with a very small minority managing to "make another frame work", but still not be competitive at the very top level. This is, obviously, a bad thing, so balancing will need to be done so that all Warframes are at least viable in someway/setup. The second reason is that PvP elitists are notoriously bad for forum whine. Like I said before, I've been a long time PvPer, but other than gross imbalances, I've never been one to complain, yet the majority of PvP forums are full of whining - "My class is broken and underpowered - buff!", "That class is overpowered - nerf!", and the all time classic, "<Class> is broken, this game sucks, fix or I'm quitting!", etc. So what's wrong with balancing a game around PvP? Well, when PvP is the focus/only aspect of a game, there is no problem. But when the game is designed as, advertised as, and by the majority, played as a PvE game (or even when it's a rough 50/50 split), then PvP changes almost always negatively affect PvE. How many PvE/PvP games have you played where something was totally fine and balanced in PvE, but so broken in PvP it got a flat nerf, which then directly nerfed your (balanced) character in PvE? It happens all the time. Then you get the shafted PvE players flooding to the forums to complain about the nerf, and to complain about PvP elitists and how they are ruining their game. It's a vicious cycle. Balancing a game that has any kind of focus on PvE, around PvP, is bad for the game. Now, does that mean that there can be or should be absolutely no form of PvP in this game whatsoever? No. But whatever form of PvP is implemented in the game needs to, in my opinion, tick the following boxes: 1) Not be rewarded/incentivised/ranked - If it is, then balancing needs to be done around it, because imbalances affect rewards 2) Be entirely voluntary - So no PvP gear (nothing should be exclusive to it, nor give you an edge in PvE whether by stats or ease of attaining) 3) Not be Warframe vs Warframe - Or at least, not on a group scale (1v1 duels for fun/bragging rights could be viable). Because this would then force the game to be balanced around PvP. So what options are there? Here's a few that I believe would work: 1v1 duels. Entirely optional, no rewards, just you, battling a friend (or some randomer) for a break from the PvE grind, and for bragging rights. This could either be something you do in special mini arenas by queuing for it, or something akin to Borderlands. This would have to have NO balancing focus on it, and should be stated as so. L4D Versus mode. In other words, you could join a mission in progress (as long as its marked as versus mode) as the enemy (Grineer, Corpus, Infected) and fight against the Warframe players as they attempt to complete the mission. No levels, mods, whatever for the enemy players, just constant respawns as basic grunts and occassional heavy grunts, with the goal of killing the players (revives could or could not be disabled) before they achieve their objective. And that's probably about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sealgaire Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Words of Wisdom What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokuen Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Now, does that mean that there can be or should be absolutely no form of PvP in this game whatsoever? No. But whatever form of PvP is implemented in the game needs to, in my opinion, tick the following boxes: 1) Not be rewarded/incentivised/ranked - If it is, then balancing needs to be done around it, because imbalances affect rewards 2) Be entirely voluntary - So no PvP gear (nothing should be exclusive to it, nor give you an edge in PvE whether by stats or ease of attaining) 3) Not be Warframe vs Warframe - Or at least, not on a group scale (1v1 duels for fun/bragging rights could be viable). Because this would then force the game to be balanced around PvP. sounds fair enough, in some games when there are some sort of "OP item" that you can receive as reward things get somewhat messy so yeah agreed with the non-reward and non-pvp gears/weapons ps: so much to read u.u' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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