So Disappointed With This Game

[Foofmonger]

I don't see why everyone is so defensive about this. I think every point this person made is at least valid, if not productive.

 

-One slip up and steath is over and you get to eat a bag of $&*^s for the rest of the mission. I'm all in favor of changing that.

 

-One route to take to get to the end, no alternatives. Don't tell me that doesn't irk you as being dumbed down sometimes. Think of the potential to explore if they made the maps a little more complex. You wouldn't actually have to give up stealth just because there's two minigunners standing back to back.

 

-The AI is kind of potato. Sometimes it'll just be one sawman running at you to his doom, but a full fledged assault team and they all pussy out behind cover and cry for mommy over the intercom. Doesn't help that they're all hive mind. I cut up one who decided to run headlong for the panel to lock down the doors, even though I'm standing in front of it, then suddenly the next one becomes overwhelmed with the urge to touch the shiny panel. I killed five people in a row all doing that and I didn't even have to move.

 

There really is room to improve and these are all valid points, so I don't think, "Lol you just don't understand this game," -which is still in beta and has an entire 100,000 credit item with the words "Stealth robot" stamped on it but started off not stealthing itself- is a valid answer. The game can and should change. I don't think the dev's vision was of a game where everyone buys Dual Heat Swords, Akboltos, and a Hek so they can all rush the boss then run to extraction.

 

I don't think a single person is saying "warframe needs no improvements", its more of a discussion on which improvements it needs.

 

For instance, asking for non-linear maps I feel is a huge waste of time and resources that the devs could use bettering the game in other areas. This game has RNG maps. Making RNG maps with multiple paths to objectives is most likely a coding nightmare, completely unessacary for the health of this game, and if anything will only serve to confuse new players and get them lost. Not to mention that it opens up the can of worms in which you think you are taking an alternate path only to find out you went the completely wrong direction to a dead end. At least you know now that if you aren't following the waypoint chances are you are either backtracking or going towards a dead end.

 

I don't want this to be an open world, or multiple paths type of game. That would be a huge effort for the devs with very little return for the players. This game does not need that.

 

Nor does it need "once you clear a room no new spawns", I mean sure, the spawn system could always use work and tweaks, but there shouldn't be some rule set in stone where once you clear a room enemies cannot spawn there. I already wish there was more enemies and more spawns, I most certainly don't want less enemies to fight or to complain about getting swarmed when its so easy to get cover, get into good position, and dominate plenty of enemies.

 

Yes, the stealth and AI could definitely, most definitely use some work. A lot of work. Stealth is very blah right now and the A.I. is wonky esp on early missions. 

Edited April 26, 2013 by Foofmonger

[Story4]

pointing out a simple facts, most of those rooms got closed elevators/doors etc.

And that this strange way of spawning is a simulation of some sorts to that.

 

 

I still don't understand why people complain about having enough enemies to fight. Just because you clear a room doesn't mean that no new enemies should spawn at all ever. The spawn system is fine, and I can't fathom why people need to think that there should be less spawning or that once you clear a room it means it stays clear forever.

 

If anything, 99% of the time I wish more enemies would spawn.

 

I have no problem if they spawn in an room adjacent to another door or elevator etc., something that makes sense, but that room had no other exit and yet they spawned from it! It's pretty annoying especially when they spawn behind you in a room that you just cleared. The spawn system isn't "fine", it is actually quite problematic. IF enemies actually rode down the elevators or spawned from locked rooms then that would make sense, but not from a room that was empty 10 seconds before.

 

Also @ your previous post, I agree that multiple paths would be problematic, but making some special lockers hidden away in other parts of the make would make it a bit more worthwhile to explore the map. Also on higher-level maps, especially if you go solo, for example on ceres you will have to stay behind cover a lot because the grineers have very good accuracy and damage and if they spawn behind you in a room that you just cleared then it's pretty much end-game.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Story4

[Vyaldyn]

I still don't understand why people complain about having enough enemies to fight. Just because you clear a room doesn't mean that no new enemies should spawn at all ever. The spawn system is fine, and I can't fathom why people need to think that there should be less spawning or that once you clear a room it means it stays clear forever.

It's not a problem if you're doing a mission the normal, "Rambo", way, but it's a problem if you try doing stealth. You clear a room and move on to the next one and suddenly a Moa/Runner/whatever jumps at you from behind from where you just killed everyone and there was no other way of getting in. Enemies should not respawn if they haven't detected you.

[Foofmonger]

I have no problem if they spawn in an room adjacent to another door or elevator etc., something that makes sense, but that room had no other exit and yet they spawned from it! It's pretty annoying especially when they spawn behind you in a room that you just cleared. The spawn system isn't "fine", it is actually quite problematic. IF enemies actually rode down the elevators or spawned from locked rooms then that would make sense, but not from a room that was empty 10 seconds before.

That is not problematic, its an immersion complaint at best. All they have to do is change spawn points to locked doors and it would be the same exact system with just slightly moved around locations and as you say "that would make sense".

 

It essentially is not a gameplay issue you are talking about but an immersion one. Ok why would enemies spawn out of thin air or a wall, I agree, that is annoying from an immersion sense, but from a gameplay perspective it is no different then having them pop out of thin air. If a room is cleared but it has locked doors, I don't see why enemies shouldn't be able to spawn at those doorways.

 

So once again, the system itself is fine. The problem is the exact location of the spawn points, not that they happen after a room is cleared or behind you or whatever, its just that on some occasions they don't make logical sense and that breaks your immersion in the game world.

[Foofmonger]

It's not a problem if you're doing a mission the normal, "Rambo", way, but it's a problem if you try doing stealth. You clear a room and move on to the next one and suddenly a Moa/Runner/whatever jumps at you from behind from where you just killed everyone and there was no other way of getting in. Enemies should not respawn if they haven't detected you.

Stealth is broken. The problem is not the spawns but the entire stealth system. And playing the game normal is not "Rambo", you don't need to come up with deregatory terms to describe a certain playstyle.

 

Trying to play a game with a broken stealth mechanic, only in stealth, and then to complain about the spawns is just silly. Everyone knows the stealth system sucks, why are you trying to shove your square block in a round hole. If you want stealth to be a viable alternative to run and gun, you need to wait for the devs to make it viable.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Foofmonger

[Odog4ever]

Loki is the worst frame for soloing by a long shot. I didn't really enjoy my time with him when I played solo, but his abilities become essential when playing with friends on the harder difficulties. The game is a little grindy but it also happens to be very good. I personally enjoy the combat so much I forget about the grinding and just enjoy the ninja flow a lot of the time.

 

LOL what??? Your doing it wrong then.

 

Loki was my starting/main frame and I've done tons of solo missions with. These little things called decoy and invisibility make him one of the more solo-able warframes. And he has the highest base speed so if you need to book it, all the enemies see is a blur...

[Odog4ever]

I still don't understand why people complain about having enough enemies to fight. Just because you clear a room doesn't mean that no new enemies should spawn at all ever. The spawn system is fine, and I can't fathom why people need to think that there should be less spawning or that once you clear a room it means it stays clear forever.

 

If anything, 99% of the time I wish more enemies would spawn.

 

I think it's messing with some players OCD. They have to search EVERY loot chest and they have to kill EVERY enemy for them to feel like they are "finished". Infinite spawns are the bane of completionist. I don't have that problem so I don't know how to help these people.

[Story4]

That is not problematic, its an immersion complaint at best. All they have to do is change spawn points to locked doors and it would be the same exact system with just slightly moved around locations and as you say "that would make sense".

 

It essentially is not a gameplay issue you are talking about but an immersion one. Ok why would enemies spawn out of thin air or a wall, I agree, that is annoying from an immersion sense, but from a gameplay perspective it is no different then having them pop out of thin air. If a room is cleared but it has locked doors, I don't see why enemies shouldn't be able to spawn at those doorways.

 

So once again, the system itself is fine. The problem is the exact location of the spawn points, not that they happen after a room is cleared or behind you or whatever, its just that on some occasions they don't make logical sense and that breaks your immersion in the game world.

 

It is not fine especially when you have 10 grineers in front of you on Ceres and 5 more spawn behind you while you are taking cover, or when a disruptor spawns behind you when your on infestation from a room you just cleared.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Story4

[halofury36]

@OP:

 

I really hope you don't give up on this game.

 

Your first point about maps is a hard one to agree with, at least completely. You are right that there are lots of locked doors, but for now the gameplay is meant to be linear. I have read a number of different posts from people both asking for better maps and for more dynamic map layouts (most notably having alternate paths for stealth). So while you will probably never see a whole map unlocked, I am sure it will be improved upon.

 

For your second point, stealth was a secondary concern and not even in the game originally. As people kept asking for it, they have continued to work on adding and fixing it. As such, it will still be a while before this is truly implemented. I would say to not worry too much about it as enough of the community wants it that I think it will be done right - just not immediately. Also, the design behind the waypoints has been critiqued and will continue to be, so don't worry, no one wants to be confused by misleading data.

 

In response to your third point, the current AI and system for mobs is still pretty rough. I would say that the current system is a good foundation but it is not anywhere near the final product. As it is, most enemies swarm or rush, where that is mostly appropriate for the Infested, and they should instead be using strategies unique to the factions. In addition, currently the enemies seem to respawn after certain triggers, such as destroying a reactor or stealing an artifact. This has been mentioned before and does hurt the stealth style - but again, that is mainly due to the game being a Run & Gun playstyle and only has stealth due to the request of the community.

 

My advice would be to:

1) see how the next update does for changing the gameplay

2) if it doesn't match your playstyle, suggest some changes in the forums

3) maybe take a break and come back to it in a month or two

 

 

[11.11.11]

I have no problem if they spawn in an room adjacent to another door or elevator etc., something that makes sense, but that room had no other exit and yet they spawned from it! 

 

 

You clear a room and move on to the next one and suddenly a Moa/Runner/whatever jumps at you from behind from where you just killed everyone and there was no other way of getting in. 

 

It's their ship/base. They came through the locked doors. 

 

But I agree that having enemies spawn behind you can be irksome. What actually makes it irritating is the fact that one enemy can alert the entire ship. While this is annoying for stealth gameplay - it's also fairly logical when you think about the context we're playing in. Far future - walkie talkies have probably been long superceeded by far more powerful means of communication. I don't think it's unrealistic that if you alert a Grineer, most of his buddies are going to know - thanks to his armor's life monitoring signal suddenly going offline. 

 

 

Now I agree the AI is dumb, and needs some work, but I think in some cases, it's behaivour is justifiable. Even if it makes for difficult game-play.

 

 

As for spawns. The biggest problem I have, is opening a door on a solo run, and coming face to face with a crowd of 25+ enemies. That should just never happen to my mind. Because no matter how high lvl your gear is, once you go down in a solo run - you've failed. 

Edited April 26, 2013 by 11.11.11

[Story4]

It's their ship/base. They came through the locked doors. 

 

But I agree that having enemies spawn behind you can be irksome. What actually makes it irritating is the fact that one enemy can alert the entire ship. While this is annoying for stealth gameplay - it's also fairly logical when you think about the context we're playing in. Far future - walkie talkies have probably been long superceeded by far more powerful means of communication. I don't think it's unrealistic that if you alert a Grineer, most of his buddies are going to know - thanks to his armor's life monitoring signal suddenly going offline. 

 

 

Now I agree the AI is dumb, and needs some work, but I think in some cases, it's behaivour is justifiable. Even if it makes for difficult game-play.

 

 

As for spawns. The biggest problem I have, is opening a door on a solo run, and coming face to face with a crowd of 25+ enemies. That should just never happen to my mind. Because no matter how high lvl your gear is, once you go down in a solo run - you've failed. 

In my comment that i quoted i said that i wouldn't mind them coming down an elevator or behind a locked door(the red ones), but that room was a simple one, had no other exit and yet 10 seconds after i left it 5 grineers spawned. Also something similar like this happened with infestation, i cleared a room, went forwards a little, went back after i left for 10 seconds to be sure that i didn't miss anything and there were 2 or 3 ancients and crawlers 5 meters from the door. They wouldn't have had time to come from any other rooms in just 10 seconds...

 

Regarding stealth i think that there should be more captains or a communication MOA and if you kill that you can then use it's communicator to tell everyone that the threat has been neutralized so that stealth can be reset.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Story4

[Vyaldyn]

you need to wait for the devs to make it viable.

And that's exactly what I'm doing.

[11.11.11]

In my comment that i quoted i said that i wouldn't mind them coming down an elevator or behind a locked door(the red ones), but that room was a simple one, had no other exit and yet 10 seconds after i left it 5 grineers spawned. Also something similar like this happened with infestation, i cleared a room, went forwards a little, went back after i left for 10 seconds to be sure that i didn't miss anything and there were 2 or 3 ancients and crawlers 5 meters from the door. They wouldn't have had time to come from any other rooms in just 10 seconds...

 

Those one's dropped out of the air ducts. Like you do at the start of every mission. ^_^ 

[Story4]

Those one's dropped out of the air ducts. Like you do at the start of every mission. ^_^ How 

How would an ancient fit into an air duct? ... And if they can go into air duct i want to go into them aswell!

Edited April 26, 2013 by Story4

[Saint_Tan]

RE: enemies spawning behind you in the room/area you just cleared. 

 

I have been playing/enjoying this game with the frame of mind that:

 

1. It’s a sci-fi game.  The enemy is materializing before my eyes because they are teleporting in.  If I have just cleared a room, what better place for the enemy as a drop point - so as not to ‘land’ on other beings?

 

2. Yes, the whole ship would be alerted to your presence upon discovery.  Why would it not?  What ever your (real world) country is, it is definitely bigger than the scale size of the game space ships.  If there is a manhunt for a dangerous criminal/intruder in your country, and the person in question crosses a town/state line, does the search just come to a halt?  No.  Is the criminal sudden forgotten?  The search would absolutely continue (especially on a small piece of real estate) until confirmation of enemy elimination.  So yes, if you have been spotted, it will now be a challenge to stealth (or even run and gun) through the game.  Isn’t that kind of the whole point (and appeal) of the one man army/Rambo going on this type of mission in the first place?

 

It seems the OP wants to like this game – and I hope he sticks with it.  But asking for enemies not to spawn or have the ship forget your still on board is asking for the Developers to make a game for young (pre-teen) kids.  I think most of us would not like this game to be watered down that way.

 

Just enjoy the challenge of the game!  (If you can…)

[coincience]

It seems the OP wants to like this game – and I hope he sticks with it.  But asking for enemies not to spawn or have the ship forget your still on board is asking for the Developers to make a game for young (pre-teen) kids.  I think most of us would not like this game to be watered down that way.

  (If you can…)

I see great potential in this game to be game I'd like to play a lot if DE just makes right improvements.

For that alert thing. Many of readers got me wrong because I've not described it good enough, I take. I don't mean there should be too few enemies neither but what I'd like to see coming is that you could somehow get back to "stealthy" state where enemies doesn't anymore know where you are.

[VVildc4rd]

well the thing about that is that the ship has an alarm which alerts mobs about your precence. It woudl make sence for the infested not to care about the alart though, but you do see them ideling rather than chasing you when chaging rooms as long as combat hasnt happened in a radius.

 

It is a very misguided title for the thread, you cant be disapointed with something that isnt quite finished, specially when its a year old and has this much content and is open beta.Not only that but updates and patches are in constant work. I am happy to see the amazing amount of adjustments and chages that have happened in such short period of time.

[Mr.Kaeron]

I'm so disappointed with this game. I like idea of being space ninja and i like sci-fi games, movies, books and all.  My friend suggested me to try this game as he thought i'd like it like I like many other this kinda games but this game is worst I've experienced in long time. Maybe not worst but it kinda &!$$ed me off every time i was playing it. It was not aboutgrinding or the many bugs I died to or could abuse to complete level for free. At start i picked Loki as my warframe because of his ability to go invisible and distract enemies with decoy while I sneak behind them and cut them half silently. Or so i thought i could do. When I after some playing get to try out all Loki's abilities I was a bit disappointed. Wasn't too bad thought and as I knew there is few other warframes with ability to be played "stealthy". First planet was nice and easy enough for everyone to complete. Last boss was little hard thought as I couldn't win him alone and had to join online game. Yeah, I know it is co-op designed game but i prefer playing solo as I wanted to play "stealthy" and other players were just running through enemies to the end. I enjoyed discovering mechanics of this game in early levels and there were many things I enjoyed but the few downsides ruined my experience with this game. 

 

First big downside was map design. There was always only one way to next room and to the end. And the amount of dead ends and locked doors was higher than I have ever before seen in one game. And the one time you could go explore the ship/station when some lucky door was open (maybe bug?) it lead you to dead end whole another side of map and f*cked up your waypoint so you had no clue where you should go. I'm not even sure if I want to know why did u wanted to make maps so limited when you could easy make maps a lot more fun. First of all just unlock all doors. Let players actually explore the maps and see what is behind locked doors. Add some codes for doors you don't want to be passed but please don't just block access to three fourths only because there is no object on that side. You didn't do it because you don't want players to get lost in such big maps and your waypoint system sucks? For crying out loud! Where is normal map?! The girl telling objects for sure sees whole map on some big screen on her office but why cant she show it instead of small useless minimap. That would save so much time for getting lost because of buggy waypoint she is updating. And why not to add game more ways to get next room? Like add tunnel or two that leads you to different position in next room or you could bypass room(s) full of harder enemies but which included better loots. That'd make game so much better in my opinion and with only small effort.

 

Now we can come to the second downside (one maybe thinks this is good side but for me it is maybe the worst).

The stealth gameplay. As huge stealth and invisibility mechanic fan in the games I was so disappointed how poorly it was designed in this game. I know it is really hard to put into effect and balance and that not all like it but stealth could be nice way to play this game solo. I'd love to sneak silently to enemies and oneshot them from behind. Now there is no way to play game stealthy as if you make one little mistake whole map goes alert and enemies come endlessly. After you get spotted once you cant get back to shadows and hide behind objects because somehow all enemies seem to be a telepath and have some kinda ability to see through 10 walls and to 10 miles away. Even if i stealth with Loki after getting spotted and run to another room to become visible and start sneaking again. NOPE! Enemies still know exact point I am. Now the only way complete levels seems to be just rush through them. And there really should be alternative way to play this game for those who prefer stealth and playing solo over rushing with 4 man party. I really hope you keep patching stealth (in better way).

 

Third flaw i kinda mentioned already but want to be more specific about. It is again bigger problem for solo players but good mechanic to make missions harder for groups. I'm talking about enemy spawning rate and locations. This is one thing that makes me hate game more and more after every mission. After getting spotted enemies spawn way too fast for one man to kill them and to what locations?! There is coming tons of enemies from the deadend room you just secured. I'd like to see some good explanation for that! And there is no realistic reason for 10 man to go run whole ship alert because of one guy? Atleast give soloplayers way to deal with endless enemies. Something else than wasting all your ammo from rifle and sidearm for one room. And after you clear that one whole ship alert and no more enemies coming you think they all dead but surprise waits in next room where is still one enemy left who alerts whole ship again. Then try to deal with another thousand of enemies with no ammo left at all. I don't mean that it'd not bee fun to kill mass of enemies with 4 man group but alone it is kinda depressing to die in mission directed to 10-16 levels with over 20 level warframe only because of endless enemies from start to end. 

 

I know my problems are kinda soloplayer problems and this game is meant to be co-op but I also know there are many players who would like to play this game as solo but cant yet play and you should really try to come towards solo players and listen our needs too. I know it is yet just beta and you will patch it a lot before it is "finished" and hopefully I can come play it then and enjoy more than my last experience with the game. Hopefully you guys who work with the game read this and hopefully players have time to read this long wall of text and  this thread brings discussion to the forums (more intelligent than "go back to wow rogue") Thanks for reading.

 

I'm gonna try to bypass alot of silly remarks and be objective in my points, and try to leave subjective statements as facts such as "but this game is worst I've experienced in long time."

 

Ok, first of all. I like to point out, and please this is not an excuse. This is a fact, the game IS IN BETA, and by beta it means "S#&$ that is not supose to happen will happen". If you as a person do not like to experience bugs and you have every right to not liking that. Avoid BETAs like a plague. The should cover the "bug section" of your post"

 

If you spent a little time actually reading stuff on the forums, and i am saying this because if you have time to actually spend a while on a big feedback post i'd assume you would have time to actually check info out. Alot of the issues that you adressed were already acknoleadged by the Devs as problems and are being worked on as we speak. Such as the Stealth system, the lack of endgame, 2 much RNG on some maps making them quite silly. Spawn rates on some missions, Drop rates, awareness of mobs. On the live streams they have adressed this and they said they really want to make stealth work and make the "repetetiveness" of the levels go away.

 

Solo missions  require a degree of skill, That is a fact, and if you cannot solo, as much as i understand that some mechanics can be really anoying such as the constant knockdowns of corpus Shockwaves etc or Tons of Infested. Even with the solo aspect being adress i expect them to leave a degree to dificulty to appeal to players who enjoy the challenge. I started with mag, and i soloed to lvl 30 with no potato's and had no issue with it. Was it hard? Yes! Did i enjoy it? Absolutly. Personally i havent felt as emerged on a simple pve game like this in awhile.

 

I'd love to actually explain alot more of my toughts on the matter and give you proper feedback, i feel that by reading your post you just had unrealistic expectations and felt like a bit "too judgemental approach" and not taking into account obvious factors such as developers posts & the fact that this is a beta. But i gotta go now, so here is my post.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Mr.Kaeron