Beta TEST (<- how?!) & why reset would be good

[Aido-Hwedo]

I think thats why they were considering a optional wipe so people who wanted it could get it and people who felt like all the work(yes work between lvling,farming,making, then waiting for the foundry to spit your item out days from when you put it in.) Could keep all that they earned and not feel liek they wasted all this time testing and building and paying(the ones who payed plat even tho they would get a plat refund)

I for one hope if they do add a wipe its optional cause i gota tell you farming all these items to build ember,rhino,trinity,ash,hek,heat sword, plasma sword. ect a wipe would make me feel like i spent a lot lota time on nothin.

[AmmokK]

Either way, you can't please everyone.

You indeed can´t. Writing this post shows this clearly.

However, it does feel strange to me people are so attached to their pixels in a beta, even though max level is reached in no time.

wasted all this time testing

If someone feels like testing is wasted time, i would kick him out immediately as developer. They are here to test, not to enjoy themselves!

a wipe would make me feel like i spent a lot lota time on nothin

You clearly miss the point of what you are suppoed to do here...

[Sp1nKuro]

Tera is the only one of those that was a retail game, and I was not aware that they did not wipe after Open Beta, but from what I am reading they did have a level cap of 32 during that time, so players could not reach max level during open beta. Path of Exile however is doing a wipe at the end of closed beta, which is the stage Warframe is currently in. DotA 2, does it even have any sort of persistent content between games? I haven't played it, but the typical MOBA formula involves leveling your hero from the start in each game, with everyone still starting on equal footing even if one player owns more heroes and cosmetic items. It doesn't really compare to any sort of RPG where someone would start at launch with a max level character and max level items.

I understand for free to play games, Open Beta is often sort of a soft release and there are expectations that once the public is let in that they should keep their progress, but before this game reachs that point there should be a wipe at the end of closed beta, which is what a lot of people are arguing against and whining about losing their progress from. They have made it clear that they currently have no plans for that, but I feel they should reconsider. I am seeing some others here on these forums that feel the same way I do. Either way, you can't please everyone.

In DotA2 there is a leveling system on your account similar to this games account rank thing and LoL's summoner level system. And DotA2 has already introduced the microtransaction system into the game, like buying polycounts (skins) for your heros that you play most.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Sp1nKuro

[Koagedo]

I would actually like to see a wipe, not a full one but a target one on tenno ranks and warframe /weapon levels, no need to remove everything we have worked for or leave everyone at max level but that way we get to use what weaps and frames we have currently and also play the game from mission 1, who knows what changes there will be to the missions and how they are in 2-3 months compared to now, if there are mayor changes to the gameplay then i for one would like a fresh start (but with all the gear I have atm), that way new players and testers will be on the same level at release

I understand that this kind of wipe is hard to implement but it might be worth it.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Koagedo

[Sp1nKuro]

I would actually like to see a wipe, not a full one but a target one on tenno ranks and warframe /weapon levels, no need to remove everything we have worked for or leave everyone at max level but that way we get to use what weaps and frames we have currently and also play the game from mission 1, who knows what changes there will be to the missions and how they are in 2-3 months compared to now, if there are mayor changes to the gameplay then i for one would like a fresh start (but with all the gear I have atm), that way new players and testers will be on the same level at release

I understand that this kind of wipe is hard to implement but it might be worth it.

I think at this point any kind of wipe should be optional since they've already stated they didn't plan on a wipe and I'm sure some people (myself included) have adjusted their playstyle around that. I wouldn't have bothered farming all these warframe blueprints and maxing everything out if I knew I was just going to lose it anyways. (well, maybe I would have idk, but still)

[Koagedo]

I think at this point any kind of wipe should be optional since they've already stated they didn't plan on a wipe and I'm sure some people (myself included) have adjusted their playstyle around that. I wouldn't have bothered farming all these warframe blueprints and maxing everything out if I knew I was just going to lose it anyways. (well, maybe I would have idk, but still)

aye but as i suggested a wipe just hitting the ranks not the gear that way you still keep all your blueprints and farmables etc

[AmmokK]

I would actually like to see a wipe, not a full one but a target one on tenno ranks and warframe /weapon levels, no need to remove everything we have worked for or leave everyone at max level but that way we get to use what weaps and frames we have currently and also play the game from mission 1, who knows what changes there will be to the missions and how they are in 2-3 months compared to now, if there are mayor changes to the gameplay then i for one would like a fresh start (but with all the gear I have atm), that way new players and testers will be on the same level at release

I understand that this kind of wipe is hard to implement but it might be worth it.

This is a really good idea, in my opinion. Reset all levels but keep the gear you have. So the "old" players still have their advantages but will not be as OP and rush through lowie-alerts in 2 minutes, starting to pi** them off.

[Koagedo]

This is a really good idea, in my opinion. Reset all levels but keep the gear you have. So the "old" players still have their advantages but will not be as OP and rush through lowie-alerts in 2 minutes, starting to pi** them off.

That was the intention of my suggestion, and i know some stuff amout games and programming etc and (well i cant say without seeing their Database infront of me) its quite hard to do, you either need to write a huge program saying basicly "reset all to 0" that only targets warframes and weapons without resetting everything else, or manually reset eveyones rank by hand (then again im not a pro programmer, i can mod thats about it :P)

[KGeddon]

But that's wrong. Do you not understand what beta testing and quality assurance entail? Besides, the game is going to "launch" as free to play.

I do understand.

If he were a paid employee he would probably spend all of his time jumping on objects in a mob free environment until he got stuck/fell through the world. Then he would keep recreating that object, and jump on it from every angle multiple times until he could reproduce the bug. Then he would submit a bug report in a tehnical format, which means more than "<xxx> doesn't work"

From that point on, in each revision or at a developers request, a tester would recreate the object and attempt to recreate the bug. If it still happened, it would remain open. If not, it would be closed out.

This is not fun. It is a job. It is a minimum wage job. It would require a job application, technical writing ability, technical knowledge, perserverance, and hardship.

We, as closed beta testers, agreed to put what bugs we notice while running though into a ticket/post, with little/no requirement that we identify or examine them. We don't even have to figure out if it can be reproduced or the conditions to reproduce it, which is the basis of a bug report. We play the game, it's not exactly a job. They're probably going to give us a free milk gun to make up for the lack of free milk.

[AmmokK]

The resetting part is the easiest, the hard part will be to implement all the mods being added to inventory and not just vanishing when the gear is basic again.

Either way, it´s not just a change of 2 script lines, that´s for sure. Will see.

[Wiawyr]

Words

But when we do run into a bug and submit a ticket, they ask for a number of files and as precise a description as we can give to help them recreate it. It may not have a requirement to be of a certain quality or we'll be let go, but it's still work being done. And it's only minimum wage if you bring nothing to the table besides being a warm body, but the company would still never expect the tester to pay to submit their work.

[KGeddon]

This is a really good idea, in my opinion. Reset all levels but keep the gear you have. So the "old" players still have their advantages but will not be as OP and rush through lowie-alerts in 2 minutes, starting to pi** them off.

It's not the "advantages", it's not having to play the lottery ten million times to get the stuff you had before(esp earned artifacts, melee weapons if they leave them as alert rewards, reactors/catalysts, or tasty dual stat mods). RNG is pretty random.

[Koagedo]

The resetting part is the easiest, the hard part will be to implement all the mods being added to inventory and not just vanishing when the gear is basic again.

Either way, it´s not just a change of 2 script lines, that´s for sure. Will see.

they could just say "oi fellahs, remove your mods before xx/xx at xx o clock or they will be zapped KAPOW /dev out"

EDIT: yes this i how i belive DESteve to actually be if he comes out and dissapoints me by denying it then i will die from sadness :D

Edited January 13, 2013 by Koagedo

[Wiawyr]

EDIT: yes this i how i belive DESteve to actually be if he comes out and dissapoints me by denying it then i will die from sadness :D

Can I have your stuff

[Koagedo]

Can I have your stuff

No, im taking it to the grave or my girlfreind might take it all, dunno yet

Edited January 13, 2013 by Koagedo

[AmmokK]

If he were a paid employee he would probably spend all of his time jumping on objects in a mob free environment until he got stuck/fell through the world. Then he would keep recreating that object, and jump on it from every angle multiple times until he could reproduce the bug. Then he would submit a bug report in a tehnical format, which means more than "<xxx> doesn't work"

From that point on, in each revision or at a developers request, a tester would recreate the object and attempt to recreate the bug. If it still happened, it would remain open. If not, it would be closed out.

This is not fun. It is a job. It is a minimum wage job. It would require a job application, technical writing ability, technical knowledge, perserverance, and hardship.

We, as closed beta testers, agreed to put what bugs we notice while running though into a ticket/post, with little/no requirement that we identify or examine them. We don't even have to figure out if it can be reproduced or the conditions to reproduce it, which is the basis of a bug report. We play the game, it's not exactly a job. They're probably going to give us a free milk gun to make up for the lack of free milk.

This is, apart from many farmruns, what i actually do when i go solo. Sliding around the ship´s borders, jumping in corners, switching Jackal to the roof just to see what happens (actually did this in coop mode, sry guys, but that´s what we are supposed to do ^^) and fooling around with all those little annoyences that could happen.

Sadly (or luckily, see it as you like), the game is already pretty decently programmed concerning these points, so not much feedback is needed here. The parts that went wrong are going to be posted in a few days, because i don´t feel like writing a report for every single one of them, i prefer the "all in one" version.

Edited January 13, 2013 by AmmokK

[Tetsmeha]

I thought it was just a soft reset on plat and stuff?

[The-Blacksmith]

This is a co-op PvE game that's non-competitive - the only thing that could be construed as competitive are leaderboards, which are skewed by imbalanced mechanics in beta, and they have already said they are looking at resetting them, which makes perfect sense and I doubt any (sane) person would complain about that.

But what's the need for a mandatory reset? What's so wrong with an optional one? Just to clarify, "because other games did it" is not a legitimate argument. I've yet to see a truly legitimate argument in this thread or elsewhere on these forums at all for a mandatory reset for this game. If someone can give a me one, then fair enough!

Also, whilst we are closed beta testers, we are still somewhere inbetween game testers and players. As someone said, it's not a paid job, we don't have targets and requisites, we don't have to spend all our time jumping against one wall repeatedly to find a bug/replicate a bug. We don't have to post official bug reports. It's requested that if we find a bug that we post a report, with no enforced definitions on how we report it. Therefore arguing that we are pure testers and anyone who doesn't pure test should GTFO is stupid. The way I see it, we are mainly testing how the game plays, and how engaging it is and thus just play the game.

And as DESteve said, they need to test out economy and business models as well, hence plat purchases. And they also need the income on top of the feedback to continue to develop the game. And testing the plat system leads to changes that better the game (as he pointed out, the Pro system change).

Also, whoever said that if they wanted to test the plat system and get data on purchases they could just hand out plat - what a ridiculous idea. You've been given it for free, so the value is thus diminished. That, and it doesn't give you data on how many people buy plat, which is a very important figure to combine with what they are purchasing with it (are people buying plat because there's an awesome warframe offer on? etc).

As to the suggestion for a reset on all levels, but keep all items, I wouldn't be too averse to that. It'd be slightly irritating having to grind the levels again, but I could live with it, especially if I played through new content. Though, as people have pointed out, that kind of implementation is probably far too difficult to achieve.

[Koagedo]

as it comes to testing im going to wait untill im done with alot of the game before posting anything, and when i do, it will be a long ncie post with suggestions that i think could change the game, first of all its easier for me and second of all its easier for the devs if everyone posts one big post each instead of 3000 small ones, it saves them time sifting through the forums that could be spent on imporving the game

[Enjio]

If you are really upset about not having additional slots just wait for more promotional rewards, like the screenshot/video one I've seen. In the future my guess is they will have a youtube channel we could subscribe to and earn additional platinum or facebook and twitter.

My personal opinion is that if you have spent well enough time on the game lets say 100 hours + you should look into helping the developers and yourself by investing/donating. Console games cost roughly that much and usually don't have that much hours put in to the person actually playing it. Also about the reset there is no need since it's a PvE game, If anyone should be complaining about a reset it should be the Grineer, Corpus and Infected.

The only thing I welcome to reset when open beta/full release comes out is the ranking list.

[eelektrik]

Well one reason they should do a wipe before open beta. If they ever plan to implement trading(and I don't think they should hit open beta without it), even later on down the road, they have to reset the economy before open beta, or that is going to be thrown completely out of whack by the people farming stuff right now.

Another reason, Leaderboards. Why would you reset the leaderboards without starting everyone off again on the same footing? You let people keep all their items and levels and they can one-shot everything on easy missions and the leaderboards will be screwed right from the start unless you completely change their methodology of tracking things. Right now the leaderboard is simply kills. They need to expand that anyways, and not track 'trivial' kills so its not exploitable in the first place.

Also some people take PvE really seriously. Look at things like WoW and the guilds that try and go for server firsts on raid bosses. That chunk of players would be rightfully &!$$ed if Blizzard had let people keep all their progress from their beta tests. Just because it isn't a competitve game directly does not mean people won't be competitive about it, same goes with my above point about leaderboards.

So what reasoning is there for not doing a reset? Everything I see is 'I don't want to lose my stuff' and people complaining about people quitting because they lost their stuff.

[AmmokK]

So what reasoning is there for not doing a reset? Everything I see is 'I don't want to lose my stuff' and people complaining about people quitting because they lost their stuff.

It´s like when the people were raging during Tera Beta when the servers didn´t work and the Sneak Peak couldn´t go on as intended. God, the rage and mindcrap produced in that period still creeps me out...

But what's the need for a mandatory reset? What's so wrong with an optional one? Just to clarify, "because other games did it" is not a legitimate argument. I've yet to see a truly legitimate argument in this thread or elsewhere on these forums at all for a mandatory reset for this game. If someone can give a me one, then fair enough!

I did actually, but here it is again, just for you ;)

Even if you are going to offer a reset (you said you will be able to choose if you want one or not somewhere), most people will stick with their maxed chars anyway. Mainly because they would lose all weapons, mods, warframes and so on. So the few people restarting might get behind to their friends they made so far.

On the other hand, if you chose to stay highlevel, you will be lacking much content, because that is actually being created for us. Yet, you can´t enjoy - let´s say level 5 content - with a level 30 warframe. It´s just plain boring onehitting everything, no matter if there is new enviroment or the most clever AI ever created, you will still stare it to death. So these players might get bored extremely fast and you won´t be able to add new content for those highlevels fast enough to keep them staying.