Hek, From Amazing To Terrible.

[Amistyrja]

They're getting too nerf happy which has never been good for a game.  I guess it's a habit of the less experienced game studios.

They're still learning about their own game. Have faith ^^

[GTG3000]

They're getting too nerf happy which has never been good for a game.  I guess it's a habit of the less experienced game studios.

 

 

They're still learning about their own game. Have faith ^^

 

Yeah, I have been quite depressed by that realization myself, but it seems they are just learning to take in feedback from the community (since most of such changes were after people moaned about it on the forums), and, hopefully, will yet make the game awesome.)

[Tegajinn]

Yeah, I have been quite depressed by that realization myself, but it seems they are just learning to take in feedback from the community (since most of such changes were after people moaned about it on the forums), and, hopefully, will yet make the game awesome.)

 

I stil have faith.  They communicate well which I appreciate.  I just wish they would nerf and buff in much smaller increments in order to avoid the extremes we've been seeing.  THey need to learn to be conservative since they over nerfed the Hek this time around and last time it was turning ALL the mobs into super soldiers by increasing their damage, health, and shield values so drastically.  They had to tone that one down that day.

[GTG3000]

I stil have faith.  They communicate well which I appreciate.  I just wish they would nerf and buff in much smaller increments in order to avoid the extremes we've been seeing.  THey need to learn to be conservative since they over nerfed the Hek this time around and last time it was turning ALL the mobs into super soldiers by increasing their damage, health, and shield values so drastically.  They had to tone that one down that day.

 

My guess would be that they are trying to experiment with their game, and make it as quick as possible while 'beta' state still lasts. But I have faith as well.

[-0mega-]

I love how the DE'sare still turning a blind eye to this.

[neKroMancer]

I don't think they're turning blind eye on this. Steve, Scott, and Geoff probably engaging a three-sided battle in DE office by now.

 

Romance of three kingdoms, DE edition.

[Klaww]

game of warframes, who will be king?

[V101]

So I just logged on to test out the new changes to the shotgun. It's terrible, there is literally no use for this weapon anymore. Potato'd takes 3 shots to kill a Grineer from 20m or so away. Strun and Boar are unarguably the better weapons. Thanks for wasting my time and effort, not to mention the only catalyst I had DE. 

 

Oh and making the Glaive BP an alert award is horse S#&$.

 

You #*($%%@ up.

lol hater, you probably didnt read "no more shotgun sniping" i like the way it is because the shotgun was OP and if the devs changed it is because they agreed, to stop further flaming, just gonna say, dont like it ? dont use it .. period.

 

PD: if you learn to use it, its still an amazing weapon, 1shoting everything lv 55-ish from a real distance

Edited May 1, 2013 by V101

[foodie]

id honestly throw the realism stick out the window if you want a 100m range shotty give me 1000m rifles and snipers that do just that

 

Hek was a sniping shotgun the concept itself was not wrong but it is wrong to have weapons so overshadowing everything eles

id say restore the range but nerf the damage 50-70% compared to pre-patch  no more super shotgun,people can still have their rangy shott but keep it with its own role not stealing rifles,snipers,pistols roles

[FinalxRampage]

What everyone seems to want out of the Hek isa mid to long range shotgun right?

 

Well just make it shoot slugs then. Thats what you would do with an actual shotgun firing at asctual targets. Take your bird/buckshot out and put slugs in.

 

This would reduce the spread but increase the range. I know everyone is going to bring up the "Well this game is far from real stop comparing it to actual weapons" argument but many games have done this with specific shotguns. The most recent example of this would be the KSG 12 in Black Ops 2 Its still classified as a shotgun just it shoots slugs giving it a reduced spread but making the effective range much higher than the other shotguns. This doesnt mean turn it into essentially a sniper its just giving it a little bit tighter moving putting a more kinetic energy into the target.

 

I think this would solve most peoples issues. Also im sorry if someone already suggested this I honestly didn't feel like reading through 16 pages of people complaining about the nerfs with no solution to fix it. And for all I know it may not be possible to do this for the devs but this seams like the most realiistic solution to everyones problems

[iamLoveless]

lol hater, you probably didnt read "no more shotgun sniping" i like the way it is because the shotgun was OP and if the devs changed it is because they agreed, to stop further flaming, just gonna say, dont like it ? dont use it .. period.

 

PD: if you learn to use it, its still an amazing weapon, 1shoting everything lv 55-ish from a real distance

You didn't read any of my actual posts on the issue did you? Or perhaps anyone else's? Also, a "real" distance isn't close enough to stuff the barrel down your enemies throats. The Hek's description clearly states that it should have a greater effective distance than other shotguns, stating specifically that it was intended for mid-range usage. 19m is not mid-range.

[V101]

just saying

[Tekkaman-Blade]

Has a Dev made a response to this?

[V101]

it was changed from an OP sniper shotgun to an realistic short-midd range shotgun, so yeah, devs made it, its staying, deal with it

[iamLoveless]

it was changed from an OP sniper shotgun to an realistic short-midd range shotgun, so yeah, devs made it, its staying, deal with it

Once again, 19m is not mid-range, and modern shotguns are effective at distances well past 50m IRL. "Deal with it" seems more like an admittance of your inability to make a good case for why the weapon should be this way. 

[neKroMancer]

Once again, 19m is not mid-range, and modern shotguns are effective at distances well past 50m IRL. "Deal with it" seems more like an admittance of your inability to make a good case for why the weapon should be this way.

Stop using IRL shotgun as reference. Warframe's environment is largely claustrophobic. Narrow corridor, short walkways - using IRL reference would be an overkill. We, as a player, should look at the game an ask ourselves : How should we adjust this weapon to fit the game as a whole?

Many responses are actually quite good. However, sticking with IRL isn't and never going to work in game design and balance.

[Tekkaman-Blade]

I'm ok with he idea of range increments for Shotguns, but the current one is around 10 meters too short on max damage.

[BobDillinger]

Has a Dev made a response to this?

Not that I'm aware of.

It's no doubt that the devs have noted the issues, but whenever any developer tries to actively engage in the balance discussion then things get messy, people turn on them, start acting 100x more immature etc etc.

[iamLoveless]

Stop using IRL shotgun as reference. Warframe's environment is largely claustrophobic. Narrow corridor, short walkways - using IRL reference would be an overkill. We, as a player, should look at the game an ask ourselves : How should we adjust this weapon to fit the game as a whole?

Many responses are actually quite good. However, sticking with IRL isn't and never going to work in game design and balance.

I don't use IRL shotguns as a reference, I simply refuted the statement of the person I was replying to.

[Amistyrja]

Stop using IRL shotgun as reference. Warframe's environment is largely claustrophobic. Narrow corridor, short walkways - using IRL reference would be an overkill. 

Have you fought Grineer or Corpus before? You should be aware that these A******s can fire at you from across multiple catwalks and floors below you. Warframe is not all corridors and stairways, there are numerous large open areas that can get pretty frustrating at times. Increasing the range of the Hek so it can behave like a choked shotgun isn't going to hurt anyone except enemies as long as it isn't able to 1shot a Ballista from 100m away.

[neKroMancer]

Have you fought Grineer or Corpus before? You should be aware that these A******s can fire at you from across multiple catwalks and floors below you. Warframe is not all corridors and stairways, there are numerous large open areas that can get pretty frustrating at times. Increasing the range of the Hek so it can behave like a choked shotgun isn't going to hurt anyone except enemies as long as it isn't able to 1shot a Ballista from 100m away.

 

Do you only have one weapon in your arsenal?

 

Don't you carry sidearm into the mission?

Edited May 1, 2013 by neKroMancer

[Amistyrja]

Do you only have one weapon in your arsenal?

 

Don't you carry sidearm into the mission?

So a Hek must be restricted to close-range only even though it was intended to be efficient at mid-range combat? Players who bought or made the Hek because they wanted versatility in the primary weapon choice have to be stuck with a Mk I Strun?

[neKroMancer]

So a Hek must be restricted to close-range only even though it was intended to be efficient at mid-range combat? Players who bought or made the Hek because they wanted versatility in the primary weapon choice have to be stuck with a Mk I Strun?

 

Nope, simply because saying that it's mid range doesn't mean that it's versatile. It's meant to be good at mid range and that's all it should be, an alternative for shotgunner at mid range. 

 

No doubt that falloff range is too harsh on Hek. However, the old Hek had been trumping all weapons in the game. 

 

Is it good? No, and I think you agree with me on this.

 

Should it be adjusted? Yes. It should do what it meant to do in the first place without eclipsing other weapons.

 

Honestly, I'm relieved that the Hek shotgun that had been dominating the field for so long with ridiculous stat and range is gone. I'm extremely interest in seeing an adjusted version of it soon. I don't think the falloff is appropriate for what it should do but the stats are also in need of change.

[Amistyrja]

Nope, simply because saying that it's mid range doesn't mean that it's versatile. It's meant to be good at mid range and that's all it should be, an alternative for shotgunner at mid range. 

 

No doubt that falloff range is too harsh on Hek. However, the old Hek had been trumping all weapons in the game. 

 

Is it good? No, and I think you agree with me on this.

 

Should it be adjusted? Yes. It should do what it meant to do in the first place without eclipsing other weapons.

 

Honestly, I'm relieved that the Hek shotgun that had been dominating the field for so long with ridiculous stat and range is gone. I'm extremely interest in seeing an adjusted version of it soon. I don't think the falloff is appropriate for what it should do but the stats are also in need of change.

'Versatility' would translate to being capable of close and mid-range combat in this case. Maybe it's not so beast at close-range against a mob with that tight spread and low clip size but that's one limitation already.

 

In it's current state, it's not what it's meant to be. I agree that Hek shouldn't be picking off Grineer and security cameras from across platforms while your teammate with a Snipetron is trying to align his crosshair with a Grineer's head. Falloff is an appropriate mechanic, but it's quite obvious that the current falloff range is pretty dumb. Just let the Hek take down targets with one shot from across the room, it doesn't have to return fire from across a chasm or snipe a Shield Osprey from one floor above, just let the gun do what it was intended to do, not just as a shotgun but a choked, long-barreled scattergun, nothing more and nothing less.

[GTG3000]

Has a Dev made a response to this?

 

Rebecca said that there will be changes made to Hek. Gorgon is working as intended, sadly.

 

Personally I would love to have it's range back, even if it would drop off to half damage, or do only 100 damage as is. And then having an ability to choose some rifle and have it do exactly that, but without 'how much pellets hit the weakspot' lottery. But alas, I guess http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CripplingOverspecialization'>niche weapons are easier than multiple versatile guns.

Edited May 1, 2013 by GTG3000