The full impressions of a single player

[Kurodius]

I'm aware that there are multiple forums to address separate aspects of the game, but I wanted to give my full impressions in a single post.

What I liked:

-The visuals of the game are really quite good. The styles of the player characters have personality and give a bio-tech feel to the warframes.

-The abilities used in the game are quite fun to use, and give a real feeling of power to the player.

-Using the sword in melee combat feels fluid and satisfying.

Minor issues:

- There is not enough information given about the weapons in the game. The brief description is all we get to differentiate the various weapons without having to purchase and use them.

-The game could use a bit more optimization, as I have noticed some frame-rate issues when I'm sprinting.

-The use of a crating timer, requiring the player to wait for many hours to make a new item, seems to server little purpose other than to mess with more impatient players.

Signifigant issues:

-The use of in game currency has far too many steep prices to deal with in the store. For some items I have to purchase the blueprint for a signifigant amount of credits, then I have to pay almost the exact same amount in "crafting fees." Simply put, the free option has such incredibly steep prices, only those with an extreme amount of patience.

-While the levels are randomly generated, the maps all just look far too similar. I progress to different levels and complete different objectives, but it feels like I'm on the same exact spaceship on numerous levels, just in different parts of it.

-There is not enough enemy variety in the game. They all look too similar and fight too similar within their specific enemy factions.

-For a game that relies souly on PvE, there is very little of a story or narrative. In PvP, all you need to invest the player is the urge to be better than your opponent. In PvE, the player needs to feel that there is some signifigance in his or her actions when he or she is just killing an amalgamation of npcs. If I were to invest a signifigant amount of time into this game, I would want some kind of continuous narrative. As it stands, there may be a good amoutn of lore, but the actual story of the game is "we need you to go here, and we need you to do this" in every single level, with little explanation of why.

I appologize about any spelling errors, and I hope you will take my assessments into consideration for the finished game.

[ff7fan]

ugh, another one, it's only beta, ofcourse it will lack instructions/areas/enemies and everything else, we're not testing content here, are we?

[WildJuice]

The credit gaining is fine as it is. If you've played enough (maybe like 1 week), you should have all the gear you want, with a load of leftover credits. I personally have 100k credits, and have nothing to spend it on.

However I agree with you that PvE purpose is a bit lacking. There is no drive to kill anyone except obtaining gear, and since there is no competitive side, the only thing that keeps me playing is novelty. Novelty will be gone in about a week. I'd say right now, the game has around 2 weeks of content, with poor replayability.

[MaguroPiano]

I read somewhere that they are planning to implement a story of some sort to the game, but no idea to what extent.

[Kirbuncle]

we're not testing content here, are we?

...that's kind of the point of a beta. Test content, observe issues (perceived or otherwise), give feedback on those issues.

It always baffles me when people complain about the folk who take the time to actually give that feedback. If we're not going to do that then the game may as well ship as-is, because we wouldn't be helping to mould it into a state fit for release.

Regarding the points raised in the OP:

-Agreed on the artstyle, it's very slick.

-While the powers CAN be fun, there's a considerable amount of balancing required. Some are borderline useless (*cough*Trinity*cough*) others are ridiculous (we all know about Volt).

-Melee is smooth, but the system could stand to be expanded upon. I keep looking for a block button when I see a Grineer going for a rifle-butt, for instance.

-I absolutely agree that we need more detail in weapons/mod descriptions. There's an awful lot of ambiguity - I've spent a considerable amount of time running around with a Plasma Sword and I still find myself wondering if I wouldn't be better off using something else. As an another example, there's also the matter of +% Melee Damage mods only affecting regular attacks. While the existence of +% Charge Attack mods would imply that to be the case, that kind of thing really needs to be spelt out.

-I can't comment on optimisation, I've had little issue, though the game occasionally suffers from a LOT of lag when joining a game. Don't know if it's performance-related, but it can easily get a player killed if they were to spawn in a bad spot.

- The construction timer is something of a sore point with me. Not the fact that it's there, the fact that a Warframe takes 3 full days to make - and that's after the 12 hours required by all three components. And that's not counting the time spent gathering the materials required. While I understand the need to squeeze money out of anywhere possible in the case of a game that follows the f2p model (as distasteful as I sometimes find it to be), this strikes me as taking it a step too far. Some of the construction times need to be toned down.

- In all honesty, credits are not hard to come by. Selling unwanted mods gets you all that you need.

- I believe the map repetition issue is in the process of being addressed - there's a new tileset in the works, and I would be surprised if more didn't turn up further down the line.

- I agree that, as of now, enemies need a bit more variety, and special mobs in particular need to stand out more. The Grineer heavies (napalmer, commander, etc) look almost identical to their more common brethren, and while the Corpus have a surprising amount of unit types at their disposal, it doesn't really feel that way, and so they still make for rather bland encounters. The Infested somewhat get away with this, since they're essentially zombies so you expect to get swarmed anyway - which makes it rather odd that the Ancient variants do a better job of standing out where elite mooks are concerned.

- For your last point, I gather that you want some form of over-arching narrative tying the various missions together, to give them more of a feel of cause and effect. I would be in favour of this. Right now, they feel disjointed and disconnected, with little linking them together other than a line on the map.

[Kirgen]

I would imagine (an hope) tht many of these issues are going to be worked on before release, mainly, plot ; tutorial ; variety ; and a more transparent stat system.

Things that I think need a little going over (20 hours in game so far with one level 30 warframe)

-- Plat price of guns and warframes: If the prices are lower -I- much like many other people would be more likely to buy them for plat. As it stands I have no reason or desire to pay $10+ for a gun. change those prices down to 2-3 and I would really consider it.

-- Give me a place to see what my stats really are: I know that a +60% armor mod on my warframe adds X amount of armor but not what two of those mods do nor do I know what armor actually does. A 'simple' stat screen with mouseover tips would solve many many issues people are having and make the stat watchers and the number tweakers scream with joy. (this is on top of adding the stats to melee weps)

-- Single player. This is where I normally end up for two reasons. 1) People drive me nuts sometimes and I just want to go farm mats for my new warframe alone. and 2) Matchmaking does not work so well right now either because of how it is designed or because of my geographical locaion.

Because of this I would like to see single player looked at wih the main issue being the revive system. I will NEVER pay for more revives, not when forced to because it is a co-op game and not when forced into it by the absurdly low number you get per day. The easiest solution to this would be to give the player one revive at the end of each successful mission even if you took the cap down a little (though even 2 is not enough for some of the bs chain explosion infested deaths.. or the orange chickens with 2-3 on the screen shockwave after shockwave) . . . could that system be gamed by a player of course, but they are less likely to leave from frustration and never pay a dime.

-- The aforementioned chain deaths. A system of resilence would be nice to prevent this (and it is quite common during infested misssions even in co-op if the other person does not know to NOT shoot them next to you ) have the stun effect last less and less time over the course of a minute until the explosions or shockwaves do not knock you down anymore. easy.

-- Last thing for todays list, Dropping data packs. If you run out of ammo for your pistol and are carrying the data you just drop it and switch to your rifle. This is bad. Both new players and experienced might not notice in the middle of a firefight and I have had the pack fall under stairs where it can not be reached. I understand the dynamic of carrying the pack around but I also believe that it is a detriment to most sessions in that single player takes you down to a low ammo pistol and in co-op (I have had this happen) the other player dies and now you have to try and make it through a level on Pluto with only a pistol and no backup. I do have to give props where they are due on this with the decision to allow one person to carry all of the packs and not gimp the entire squad but what if the squad is just one or two people?

Anyway, enough rambling for one morning ( I have been playing this game for 12 hours straight and really do enjoy it) hopefuly some of the issues that have been brought up by myself or the preceding commenters is taken as what it is, a look from someone that is not stuck on one design decision for months without having time to poke in and enjoy the great work that this game is and could become. (In other words . . . dang you guys have had to put some work into this thing)

[ff7fan]

...that's kind of the point of a beta. Test content, observe issues (perceived or otherwise), give feedback on those issues.

It always baffles me when people complain about the folk who take the time to actually give that feedback. If we're not going to do that then the game may as well ship as-is, because we wouldn't be helping to mould it into a state fit for release.

Regarding the points raised in the OP:

-Agreed on the artstyle, it's very slick.

-While the powers CAN be fun, there's a considerable amount of balancing required. Some are borderline useless (*cough*Trinity*cough*) others are ridiculous (we all know about Volt).

-Melee is smooth, but the system could stand to be expanded upon. I keep looking for a block button when I see a Grineer going for a rifle-butt, for instance.

-I absolutely agree that we need more detail in weapons/mod descriptions. There's an awful lot of ambiguity - I've spent a considerable amount of time running around with a Plasma Sword and I still find myself wondering if I wouldn't be better off using something else. As an another example, there's also the matter of +% Melee Damage mods only affecting regular attacks. While the existence of +% Charge Attack mods would imply that to be the case, that kind of thing really needs to be spelt out.

-I can't comment on optimisation, I've had little issue, though the game occasionally suffers from a LOT of lag when joining a game. Don't know if it's performance-related, but it can easily get a player killed if they were to spawn in a bad spot.

- The construction timer is something of a sore point with me. Not the fact that it's there, the fact that a Warframe takes 3 full days to make - and that's after the 12 hours required by all three components. And that's not counting the time spent gathering the materials required. While I understand the need to squeeze money out of anywhere possible in the case of a game that follows the f2p model (as distasteful as I sometimes find it to be), this strikes me as taking it a step too far. Some of the construction times need to be toned down.

- In all honesty, credits are not hard to come by. Selling unwanted mods gets you all that you need.

- I believe the map repetition issue is in the process of being addressed - there's a new tileset in the works, and I would be surprised if more didn't turn up further down the line.

- I agree that, as of now, enemies need a bit more variety, and special mobs in particular need to stand out more. The Grineer heavies (napalmer, commander, etc) look almost identical to their more common brethren, and while the Corpus have a surprising amount of unit types at their disposal, it doesn't really feel that way, and so they still make for rather bland encounters. The Infested somewhat get away with this, since they're essentially zombies so you expect to get swarmed anyway - which makes it rather odd that the Ancient variants do a better job of standing out where elite mooks are concerned.

- For your last point, I gather that you want some form of over-arching narrative tying the various missions together, to give them more of a feel of cause and effect. I would be in favour of this. Right now, they feel disjointed and disconnected, with little linking them together other than a line on the map.

you don't get it, we're here to test how it works, not how much of it is there

[Kirbuncle]

you don't get it, we're here to test how it works, not how much of it is there

We can't do both?

[BrotherEJ]

For a closed Beta F2P this is a very good build so far. I have enjoyed playing solo and with a group. Very Pleased so far. I think all the posts seem to cover the bugs I have run into. See you out there.

[ff7fan]

We can't do both?

if there is a limited amount of areas/enemies/weapons and it's how it should be at this state of testing then yes, we can't

[Kirbuncle]

if there is a limited amount of areas/enemies/weapons and it's how it should be at this state of testing then yes, we can't

But talking about what we'd like to see next helps the devs prioritise things according to what the community talks about.

I'm not saying they do, or that they should, mind you, but it at least gives them the option. Feedback is never a bad thing so long as it's articulated in a reasonable manner.

[ff7fan]

But talking about what we'd like to see next helps the devs prioritise things according to what the community talks about.

I'm not saying they do, or that they should, mind you, but it at least gives them the option. Feedback is never a bad thing so long as it's articulated in a reasonable manner.

i don't think asking for more content in a beta test can be considered reasonable

[LordLokai]

I think bigger issue is actually the pay model not the f2p option... it costs about 20 dollars to buy a frame... which is personally an absurd cost! i thought the 7 dollars for a gun in Planet Side 2 was bad... but this goes way beyond that. @0 dollars is just to much i won't be buying frames in this game at launch if prices aren't adjusted, but for minor " shift " in play style a frame offers(face it no matter frame you use, only changes 4 abilities, which dont use as much as you'd think you do, the vast majority of your time is firing your guns which is pretty much same between frames) it is to steep.... and my friend and i both agreed was no way we were going to put out 20 dollars for a frame...

Also i think needs to be a " subscription ": model where by you pay 15 a month and aquire certain " benefits " allow you to play the game subscribed with out need to use item shop for every single thiing you want... its one thing i detest about f2p games...as much as i enjoy them, they really do try and nickle and dime you to death.

[Kirbuncle]

i don't think asking for more content in a beta test can be considered reasonable

Recommending that more content be added to certain aspects of a beta IS reasonable - it's part of the progressive development of the game, and we would be remiss as testers if we didn't voice our thoughts on that.

You seem to be looking at it as if we're solely consumers demanding add-ons and expansions. While that's partially true (there are quite a few early adopters) I'm trying to look at it as if we're pointing out aspects of the game that could benefit from further attention before it gets a full release, with a view to giving the finished product the best possible chance it can have of being a successful endeavour in the end.

It's not like a self-centred demand for more content, we're trying to help with the development of a promising piece of commercial art.

[ff7fan]

I think bigger issue is actually the pay model not the f2p option... it costs about 20 dollars to buy a frame... which is personally an absurd cost! i thought the 7 dollars for a gun in Planet Side 2 was bad... but this goes way beyond that. @0 dollars is just to much i won't be buying frames in this game at launch if prices aren't adjusted, but for minor " shift " in play style a frame offers(face it no matter frame you use, only changes 4 abilities, which dont use as much as you'd think you do, the vast majority of your time is firing your guns which is pretty much same between frames) it is to steep.... and my friend and i both agreed was no way we were going to put out 20 dollars for a frame...

Also i think needs to be a " subscription ": model where by you pay 15 a month and aquire certain " benefits " allow you to play the game subscribed with out need to use item shop for every single thiing you want... its one thing i detest about f2p games...as much as i enjoy them, they really do try and nickle and dime you to death.

you can craft a warframe yourself, the more you know

[ff7fan]

Recommending that more content be added to certain aspects of a beta IS reasonable - it's part of the progressive development of the game, and we would be remiss as testers if we didn't voice our thoughts on that.

You seem to be looking at it as if we're solely consumers demanding add-ons and expansions. While that's partially true (there are quite a few early adopters) I'm trying to look at it as if we're pointing out aspects of the game that could benefit from further attention before it gets a full release, with a view to giving the finished product the best possible chance it can have of being a successful endeavour in the end.

It's not like a self-centred demand for more content, we're trying to help with the development of a promising piece of commercial art.

look, the beta centers around finding out bugs and whatnot, at this state the game has only one area, anyone would have an idea for devs to add more, it's OBVIOUS, there's a ton of posts shouting about that and i don't think that would be something new to the dev team, they KNOW IT, there WILL be more content no matter if the community is asking for it or not, the game WILL develop and improve

[Wiawyr]

you can craft a warframe yourself, the more you know

Only takes about a week of farming and then waiting. Still a very steep cost for 4 new buttons that have a limited impact on the game.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Wiawyr

[UkyoSonoda]

At this point I view it more of testing the game engine and mechanics or bugs, glitches, and exploits primarily while suggesting things that could flesh out the UI to a more user friendly level.

As for the UI atm I think what it needs the most is a total stat window or total accumulated stats window for weapons and warframes so we can visually see in 1 spot the overall stats on the equipment after all level up perks and mods are totaled in.

[Dat_Girth]

Just want to add my 2cents in here.

I agree that a story is needed and I believe it's coming, but a suggestion would be to tell us at the start of the mission why we have to do what we are doing. Like a deception mission on an infected ship had me set the ship to self destruct. This is pretty much cut and dry as your Operator could say, "This ship filled with the Infected (or Blighted Infection, depending on how the infection are viewed in this universe you have created) on course to Orokin Tower with plans to infect us at the heart and we need you to set this ship to self destruct before they achieve this goal." Minor things like this give a large impact on perceived story.

I also agree on a total stats on your arsenal page to sum up all upgrades and mods and such, but to expand on that, I think that different Warframes should have different base stats, energy levels, and health, with different upgrade paths. Maybe even go as far as to give each warframe a passive. Like, Excalibur does X% more damage with swords. Or Ember does a flat additional damage to Immolated targets, based on her Warframe Affinity Level. That would definitely make Warframes feel more than a reskin with slightly different abilities. Same goes for weapons, just make the branching web different or something to that nature.

There's a few other things but I've typed enough for now.

[Zinn]

I agree with the crafting time for frames being way too high. I understand that there must be some incentive to buy frames but they are currently both very expensive and not very specialised. They are essentially like very similar classes and you can risk being "stuck" with a frame for a very very long time if the RNG isn't on your side. I think it took me 3 days to get all the Ash BPs, then about 1 day building the subsystems as I got enough mats and finally I rushed the finished frame with some leftover plat - But that would have been another 3 days on top of the previous time. I could take it better if they were very different from eachother but it's generally just a slight variation in powers at the moment.

I strongly disagree with the credit cost being too high and I suspect this is because OP hasn't been selling his useless mods. You will literally end up with millions of credits that you can't spend on anything because you've already got the best stuff and don't have room for new things anyway. As far as materials go, it depends on crafting time of the frames: Currently, it takes a few days to get all the stuff you need, which I think is too much combined with a minimum of 84 hours of crafting time. If they significantly reduced the crafting time, though, I'd be okay with a bit more material farming.

I agree on the maps but that one is pretty obvious and the devs have mentioned multiple times they're working on new tiles for us. I also agree with enemy variety and I'll further add a note on their strength: The heavy infected require trillions of bullets, whereas a heavy grineer is open to easy headshots that brings it down in only a couple of seconds. It would be nice if the Grineer were a bit tougher, IMO.

Story would definitely be nice, though I wouldn't want it anywhere remotely near the top of the priority list at the moment. It seems like more of an Open Beta thing to work on, given the many bugs we currently face.

[Kurodius]

ugh, another one, it's only beta, ofcourse it will lack instructions/areas/enemies and everything else, we're not testing content here, are we?

We are testing content. The entire point of these "make warframe better" threads is to give input on the content that's there, and maybe give ideas about how to improve them. This isn't a review of the game, these are my impressions of the current state. Would you not feel these changes are needed, had the game been in its final state?

Edited January 13, 2013 by Kurodius

[Kurodius]

...that's kind of the point of a beta. Test content, observe issues (perceived or otherwise), give feedback on those issues.

It always baffles me when people complain about the folk who take the time to actually give that feedback. If we're not going to do that then the game may as well ship as-is, because we wouldn't be helping to mould it into a state fit for release.

Regarding the points raised in the OP:

-Agreed on the artstyle, it's very slick.

-While the powers CAN be fun, there's a considerable amount of balancing required. Some are borderline useless (*cough*Trinity*cough*) others are ridiculous (we all know about Volt).

-Melee is smooth, but the system could stand to be expanded upon. I keep looking for a block button when I see a Grineer going for a rifle-butt, for instance.

-I absolutely agree that we need more detail in weapons/mod descriptions. There's an awful lot of ambiguity - I've spent a considerable amount of time running around with a Plasma Sword and I still find myself wondering if I wouldn't be better off using something else. As an another example, there's also the matter of +% Melee Damage mods only affecting regular attacks. While the existence of +% Charge Attack mods would imply that to be the case, that kind of thing really needs to be spelt out.

-I can't comment on optimisation, I've had little issue, though the game occasionally suffers from a LOT of lag when joining a game. Don't know if it's performance-related, but it can easily get a player killed if they were to spawn in a bad spot.

- The construction timer is something of a sore point with me. Not the fact that it's there, the fact that a Warframe takes 3 full days to make - and that's after the 12 hours required by all three components. And that's not counting the time spent gathering the materials required. While I understand the need to squeeze money out of anywhere possible in the case of a game that follows the f2p model (as distasteful as I sometimes find it to be), this strikes me as taking it a step too far. Some of the construction times need to be toned down.

- In all honesty, credits are not hard to come by. Selling unwanted mods gets you all that you need.

- I believe the map repetition issue is in the process of being addressed - there's a new tileset in the works, and I would be surprised if more didn't turn up further down the line.

- I agree that, as of now, enemies need a bit more variety, and special mobs in particular need to stand out more. The Grineer heavies (napalmer, commander, etc) look almost identical to their more common brethren, and while the Corpus have a surprising amount of unit types at their disposal, it doesn't really feel that way, and so they still make for rather bland encounters. The Infested somewhat get away with this, since they're essentially zombies so you expect to get swarmed anyway - which makes it rather odd that the Ancient variants do a better job of standing out where elite mooks are concerned.

- For your last point, I gather that you want some form of over-arching narrative tying the various missions together, to give them more of a feel of cause and effect. I would be in favour of this. Right now, they feel disjointed and disconnected, with little linking them together other than a line on the map.

Since there is no "Up vote" or "I agree" button on these forums, I'm just gonna act like quoting is the equivelant of that.

[Wiawyr]

Since there is no "Up vote" or "I agree" button on these forums, I'm just gonna act like quoting is the equivelant of that.

Oh boy, quoting a big wall of text to simulate circlejerk mechanics. Not surprised.

They changed the credit value of mods. I'm seeing a greatly reduced income from mod sales when before I was making 20-25k a mission.

[Kirbuncle]

look, the beta centers around finding out bugs and whatnot, at this state the game has only one area, anyone would have an idea for devs to add more, it's OBVIOUS, there's a ton of posts shouting about that and i don't think that would be something new to the dev team, they KNOW IT, there WILL be more content no matter if the community is asking for it or not, the game WILL develop and improve

Yes, there ARE a ton of posts about it. Yes, the devs DO know. Just like they know about, for example, the bugs with matchmaking and the in-game chat. There are a ton of posts about that, and the devs know about it, and the devs fully intend to address those issues to the best of their ability. That doesn't make the continued feedback any less valid.

Additionally, I'd like to note the names of two of the sections on this forum: "Improving Warframe" and "Closed Beta Bugs".

If one of these sections is dedicated to the observation of the bugs that you've been focusing on in this discussion, what's the other section for?

Edited January 13, 2013 by Kirbuncle

[ff7fan]

Yes, there ARE a ton of posts about it. Yes, the devs DO know. Just like they know about, for example, the bugs with matchmaking and the in-game chat. There are a ton of posts about that, and the devs know about it, and the devs fully intend to address those issues to the best of their ability. That doesn't make the continued feedback any less valid.

Additionally, I'd like to note the names of two of the sections on this forum: "Improving Warframe" and "Closed Beta Bugs".

If one of these sections is dedicated to the observation of the bugs that you've been focusing on in this discussion, what's the other section for?

well definetly for multiplying pointelss posts and topics from people that think that their ideas have never been thought out before