More Frames Should Be Xp Locked

[simeo77]

I understand right now for beta testing having them all unlocked at level 2 mastery rank is 'ok' for testing, but when things get going most frames should be locked.

 

For example: Loki is a beginning option. Loki can invis and is a stealth frame. But so is Ash. Ash is not XP locked (if I'm correct), but Ash is described as a Loki that's "not so squishy". So Ash would arguably be an upgrade from Loki. Banshee is touted as a "stealth" type frame. But she is not XP Locked either.

 

Ember, Frost, Saryn, and Volt are all elemental warframes. None of them are XP Locked.

 

Trinity is they only support warframe which would lend a group of Tenno at a great advantage in High level Defense and Boss Missions. Not XP Locked.

 

Rhino is extremely slow but is meant to be a "tank" class frame... however for some reason his position as this is compromised by the Frost. Rhino is XP locked at level 2 and rightly so.

 

The only starter frames (level 1 IMO) should be the starters we are given the option of. 1 pure attack (Excalibur), 1 Pure Stealth (Loki), and 1 "magic" type (Currently Mag) (and maybe one available for unlock)

 

The next rank should be upgrades from any one of these: Attack -> Rhino, Stealth -> Ash, Magic -> Ember, Frost, Volt, Saryn

 

Level 3 should open up more options: Attack -> ?, Stealth -> Banshee, Magic -> Nyx, Trinity

 

This is just my opinion but I feel it would do the following benefits:

 

- Add more structure to the game

- Lessen the complaint about Overpowered frames (because if you leveled higher/worked to receive the frames... then why not? You earned the frame so you should rightly have more power.) I feel this is the most important reason.

- Give you a GOOD reason to increase your master rank

 

To understand how I'm able to make this post and where I'm coming from: I'm almost Mastery Rank 4 and honestly... I don't see what it matters. I don't get anything for the higher level. My frames aren't stronger. I don't have "secret" missions available to me. No new weapons are achievable at level 4.... etc. I have 3 Frames, Banshee on the make and Ember, Volt, and Ash Blueprints.

 

Opinions?

[Heartsatyr]

Well I like the idea of more frames being xp locked, but with your system wouldn't low level warframes be outshined by higher level warframes? I mean Rhino and Excalibur are 2 entirely different things, so it's weird to see them in the same tree. Loki and Ash are similar, but Loki has less damaging abilities, more CC, abilities, and a higher base sprint speed as well as a defensive infusion slot. I think if anything, levels should open up new warframes, but they shouldn't be tiered.

[DaoZa]

I agree that that there should be more to ranks, but if you xp lock so many frames how are they going to rank up? Besides that, if a player is good enough to repeatly kill a boss for parts and be able to craft them, why stop them from making the frame? Getting to the boss is the point of working for the frame. Besides that, any rank after four is gruelingly slow and requires a lot of maxed weapons and a couple of frames for each rank.

Finding the middle ground between how long a player is willing to play versus how long they have to play, in terms of unlocks, is the hardest thing to get right in any game.

[Blarfles]

You seem to be suggesting that the higher rank a warframe requires, the stronger it should be.

 

To be blunt, that's an absolutely terrible idea. The point of XP-locking is to lock harder frames, not stronger. If the higher ranks are better, there's no reason to use the lower rank frames when you're a higher level, effectively cutting the viable frames to less than a third. All frames, regardless of rank requirement, should be balanced equally.

[Nazarel]

I disagree only for the simple fact that Warframe are all meant to have = strengths and weaknesses so to make say the latest 2 Saryn and Banshee xp locked to lvl 4 would suggest to new players they are a better frame. I think it's important for people especially new players to know every frame is good or bad at something and at the end of the day you just have to play what you like and that will be the "best" frame.

[DaoZa]

But if they are xp locked how can players:

Be the very best,

Like no ever was?

To farm them is the real test,

To build them is the cause.

Traveling across the land,

Searching far and wide?

Each warframe to understand,

The power that's inside

Warframe! Gotta build 'em all!

[Ronyn]

Player preference will be the biggest deciding factor in what frame we will want to play as.

Some players will simply not play if they cant get their hands on the frame that fits them.

Putting a time barrier to get frames is a bad idea.

[contractkiller4]

The thing is, all the warframes are or are meant to be sidegrades, so why require levels?  A loki can be as powerful as a rhino in different ways.

[w00tm0ng3r]

The problem with that is the three starter frames are all very powerful. Loki and Excalibur are two of the strongest frames in the game, and Mag is a little outshined by Saryn but still a strong pick. Excalibur has good base stats, a powerful aoe ult, a good oh s*** stun, and of course a spammable atom bomb that transitions into excellent mobility late game. He's a starter frame because he's easy to play and is good at everything, not because he's weak.

 

Loki is fantastic in the right hands. He has incredible utility and unparalleled mobility with his normal abilities. The ult is a little situational but helpful in its niche. He's squishy but with FOUR oh s***  buttons backed up by a large energy pool I really can't muster any pity for you if you die with him. If you didn't have the presence of mind to pop a decoy, go invisible, swap with a distant anything, or some combination of the above, you deserved it. Importantly, because utility never falls off while damage does, Loki is one of the best late game frames. It's pretty difficult to find an instance where decoy or invisibility would NOT be useful. However, I do have a minor quibble with having him as a starter frame as he is absolutely not meant for beginners, as the game itself makes clear. Ash would be the better choice for a stealth type frame given his outstanding base stats, easier playstyle, and damage abilities. Loki in fact seems to be the perfect second frame as you trawl around mid-high level content blowing people away with your maxed out weapons while your abilities protect you. The best armor is to simply never get shot in the first place.

 

Also having Ember locked and "upgrading" from Mag would be a travesty.

 

I disagree with having higher ranked frames better than lower ones. I think mastery rank should only serve to gate harder frames or ones with higher potential to screw a team over given inexperience. Rhino should not be a rank 2 frame: he's mechanically simple, thematically straightforward, impossible to die with, and has no negative synergies with anyone. Frost on the other hand should: he has an extremely narrow line skillshot, a single target stun that can effectively make the Jackal immune to damage (granted this is probably a bug) and breaks on being shot (note that nowhere in the skill's description does it say this), and a deployable cover that blocks ally incoming shots (easy to screw your team).

[simeo77]

Mastery Rank should only unlock harder frames? All frames should be equal no matter the skill? I understand skill to use a frame, but with that skill should come reward.

 

Spamming a boss gets you the right to use a certain frame? I have sat in on missions with a level 2 frame and wrong load out I accidentally entered with and never had to fire a single shot to receive the BP drop. This earns somebody the right to have a new frame/weapon?

 

You guys sound like a person should be punished for being a better player. Why the heck would anybody want to work harder at the game, play longer, and support the game ($) to have a difficult to maneuver, squishy frame which would get the "whole team killed if improperly used"?

 

Remember, a lot more warframes will be developed as the game progresses. I'm just looking to create examples to create more depth for the players.

 

I'm honestly shocked at the feedback I've received.

[w00tm0ng3r]

You have the wrong idea about what we're saying. You're in the mindset that higher mastery frames should be better than lower mastery ones. We're talking about having higher mastery frames be the harder/higher skill floor frames so you don't STILL suck by the time you get them. It's not about rewarding people for playing more, it's an experience gate: you must be at least this good to play this frame because it's harder than the rest. This cuts down on players like this Frost I had on my team earlier today who honestly thought he was helping us out by constantly freezing and snow globing the Jackal, preventing us from attacking it.

 

On your note, no we absolutely should not intentionally be creating warframe tiers. Tiers pop up anyway due to balance issues (for example it would be difficult to suggest that Ember can truly stack up against Saryn), but no frame should outright be designed to be better than any other (Excalibur prime excluded). Warframes should represent different playstyles, not power levels.

[simeo77]

You have the wrong idea about what we're saying. You're in the mindset that higher mastery frames should be better than lower mastery ones. We're talking about having higher mastery frames be the harder/higher skill floor frames so you don't STILL suck by the time you get them. It's not about rewarding people for playing more, it's an experience gate: you must be at least this good to play this frame because it's harder than the rest. This cuts down on players like this Frost I had on my team earlier today who honestly thought he was helping us out by constantly freezing and snow globing the Jackal, preventing us from attacking it.

 

On your note, no we absolutely should not intentionally be creating warframe tiers. Tiers pop up anyway due to balance issues (for example it would be difficult to suggest that Ember can truly stack up against Saryn), but no frame should outright be designed to be better than any other (Excalibur prime excluded). Warframes should represent different playstyles, not power levels.

 

Gotcha, I understand what your saying. I wasn't meaning tiers in the pure sense of the word (ex. Excalibur turns into Rhino, now Excalibur sucks and Rhino is awesome) but more tiers in the sense that Excalibur was level 1 XP locked and Rhino was level 2 XP locked so Rhino will have a slight leg up in some area/type of gameplay.

 

Like what you're suggesting though "You must be this good to play....", I then believe the one who is that good to play and able to play it well should be rewarded. Frost, Ember, Saryn and Volt all have clear elemental properties, so they should be level 2 frames because those properties are that much stronger against their respective enemy. (I'd argue Ember is much more useful against Infested than Volt is)

 

Currently I think there are only 15 frames but in the future there will probably be 25-30 frames. What then? Should frames be able to upgrade to a "prime" level after achieving level 30 and mastery rank 7? (for example)

 

Edit: +1 to the OP here. He got the idea of what I'm trying to say plus more: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/37216-going-beyond-level-30-on-your-warframe/

Edited April 30, 2013 by simeo77