What To Do Instead Of Nerfs

[Feldgrep]

What's the worst feeling in the world? Buying a gun, capping, supercharging it, then having it get nerfed.

So me thoughts to meself, how to fix these nerfs? And this is what I came up with:

At Lvl 30, with a good mod arrangement, almost any weapon can be considered OP if you know how to use it. And combined with the warframes, enemies rarely have a chance. So instead of trying to balance the weapons and warframes, leave them as they are, or in some cases, were, epic. Make the mobs harder. Make the ai more complex, give them ways to dodge, more group tactics. Make it a group acting together, not a bunch of grineer in a group fighting their own battle.

What so you guys think?

Better frames/weps and better enemies?

Or nerfed frames/weps and weaker enemies?

[Brane_Ded]

Just add a new mode type that's far more difficult but has a higher chance for better rewards.

[Feldgrep]

Yes, add a hard mode, but also make the normal mobs harder.

[LazyTemplar]

What so you guys think?

Better frames/weps and better enemies?

Or nerfed frames/weps and weaker enemies?

 

False dilemma.  We don't have to choose between those two options.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

 

Buffing and nerfing are not mutually exclusive.  The old hek needed a nerf.  The current hek needs a buff.  In fact, all the shotguns need a buff atm, as does the burston, a few melee weapons, and I'm sure some other things I'm missing.  

 

Enemies should be weaker in early systems and harder in late systems.  Or some type of difficulty selection with rewards to reflect the increase difficulty.  

 

And before you ask, yes.  I do have a hek.  There is a potato in it.  I just happen to believe there should be a middle ground between "shotgun sniper" and "ammo-consuming melee weapon."  

[InFlames]

I'm sure some other things I'm missing.  

 

 

Snipetron ^^

And a couple melees yea :p

[Feldgrep]

Seems to me like the beginning mobs r the weaker ones, and the higher level ones are the harder ones... Maybe because I only fight them with guns I'm leveling for mastery

[Myo86]

nerfing weapons to balance out other weapons being already S#&$*y (snipetron) just makes all weapons S#&$*y

 

who really wants to play with S#&$ty weaponry

 

its a pve game not a pvp game

 

bazooka anyone? or that too op?

[LazyTemplar]

Seems to me like the beginning mobs r the weaker ones, and the higher level ones are the harder ones... Maybe because I only fight them with guns I'm leveling for mastery

 

 

But unless you're making the argument that no one should ever use level 30 weapons, or catalysts, or reactors ever, then there should be a place where using your "good stuff" doesn't trivialize the game.  It is far better to have some areas balanced for low level equipment and others balanced for high level equipment, than for it all to be balanced around one or the other.  

 

Really, there should be areas where going in with stuff you're trying to level for mastery just doesn't work.  The fact that you take your low level stuff everywhere is evidence that there really isn't anywhere appropriate for maxed loadouts.  

 

I still lean towards the "harder setting" option though, if only because certain resources and blueprints are system exclusive.  And making late-system frames or resources impossible for newer players would be a negative.  Difficulty setting would provide appropriate options for both people trying to level mastery ranks and for people who want to really test themselves and their high-level equipment.  

[ShimmerDoll]

They need to put the two guns they nerfed back and give sniper rifles penetration so they can hit a few enemies.

[Aizeol]

I see "hard mode" thrown around a lot.   What do you mean by "hard"?

 

 

Do you just mean enemies that have more health? or just do more damage?

Those things are't hard.

 

If you mean enemies that behave smarter, that use the environment to their advantage or any other action that would cause them to be more challenging, then say that.

 

Don't be vague and expect anyone to know what you mean.

 

I do think Warframe could do with some tweaking in the difficulty, but adding a "hard mode" is a lazy cop-out that is beneath DE and is disrepectful to it's audience.

 

Make the factions actually unique in their mechanics and strategies.

 

-Have melee enemies that actually try and sneak around to get hits

-Have heavies that create more suppressing fire to drive players behind cover

-Stop relying on cheap mechanics like stun and knockdown to make everything harder

-have enemies that require teamwork and strategy to defeat instead of just more bullets

 

This is feedback that actually has a chance of results.  "Hard mode" is too vague and incorrect.

[Amistyrja]

Create giant infested ancient Ancients that need to be dismembered to be killed! Have Corpus proxies that carry grenade launchers and have Misaka Mikoto's robo-pet MOAs do 5X damage with their railguns so maybe people need to start prioritizing targets when fighting Corpus! Make blocking a Grineer Roller's aerial leap attack with your melee weapon punt it back into a group of Grineer marines and see how they like it!

 

 

Oopsie I'm going offtopic arent I >_________<

[Tetsmeha]

I'd really like to see devs one day buff the unused weapons instead of nerfing the most used ones so people actually argue about what is better rather than what is the best.

[RoundedPlanet88]

False dilemma.  We don't have to choose between those two options.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

 

Buffing and nerfing are not mutually exclusive.  The old hek needed a nerf.  The current hek needs a buff.  In fact, all the shotguns need a buff atm, as does the burston, a few melee weapons, and I'm sure some other things I'm missing.  

 

Enemies should be weaker in early systems and harder in late systems.  Or some type of difficulty selection with rewards to reflect the increase difficulty.  

 

And before you ask, yes.  I do have a hek.  There is a potato in it.  I just happen to believe there should be a middle ground between "shotgun sniper" and "ammo-consuming melee weapon."  

 

 

YE GOD, it`s like the BSN all over again......................................

 

OT: the current shotguns are, quite frankly, a joke. some of the melee values are ridiculous, slide melee almost universally doesn`t ignore armor, and does less damage than retard heavy melee spam, which almost universally DOES ignore armor. (personal rant there, not going into detail). The glaive is a little ridiculous at this point as well. (killing blow is a little over the top, especially since pressure point is less than stellar right now) Some of the daggers especially suffer from this same issue as well. OKKKK, BAD ROUNDED, get off melee rant. Right now, there`s no real area that is "impossible" with the lower tier weapons, and that tells me that higher level enemies need a buff, with a corresponding buff to the higher level equipment to keep it possible. I would also argue that the lower tier ,roughly 15-25, corpus and grineer specifically need a RoF nerf. Lancers are a little ridiculous right now starting around lvl 15, and crewmen aren't far behind. In comparison, the infected are almost universally ROFLSTOMP, as long as you have a projectile weapon for higher (i.e., above about 50) ancients.

 

Just my Hex shield of text

Also, Lazy, How`s it going? was kinda worried there for a bit.

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by RoundedPlanet88

[Ashgan9]

*sighs* whys this always get brought up... nerfs will happen as will buffs its just the nature of balancing you can't just buff that would be stupid...

 

That's not to say buffs/nerfs can't go overboard and need more fixing but you can't just denounce nerfing when its necessary.

[Rabcor]

funny... i was thinking the exact same thing earlier today!

 

It's practically doing the same thing as nerfing the guns, but the player wont feel it. but the guns need to be balanced between each other, that is pretty important in my opinion. Every weapon must be viable.

[BlueSpark]

*sighs* whys this always get brought up... nerfs will happen as will buffs its just the nature of balancing you can't just buff that would be stupid...

 

That's not to say buffs/nerfs can't go overboard and need more fixing but you can't just denounce nerfing when its necessary.

Obvious truth is obvious. Nerfing isn't about 'making guns worse so the game becomes more difficult' - it's about the balance of weapons among each other. I think the overwhelming majority of the community will agree that the pre-patch Hek was quite dominant and made other guns pale in comparison. So they attempted to bring it back in line. If they had simply increased the overall game difficulty as the OP proposed, that would have changed nothing about the gun imbalance.