Scrap The Energy System. Replace It With Separate Cooldowns For Each Ability

[KaizerPrime]

The energy system is flawed. You end up skipping over certain skills; why bother with using a radial blind for 50 energy when you can just slash dash twice and kill all the enemies for the same energy cost?

 

A cooldown system would make the warframes use ALL of their abilities, and help distinguish them better between each other

[Mietz]

another cooldown thread...begins.

[KaizerPrime]

another cooldown thread...begins.

Sorry about that. I've been looking over the forums for days and didn't seen any other threads about cooldowns :( 

[InFlames]

no me gusta

[MetalGerbil]

no. no cooldowns. current system is a replacement of a cooldown system. 

 

what seems like "now we use all our abilities!" turns into a spamfest where gunplay/melee/skills turns into skills/skills/skills.

 

either that long cooldowns for powerful skills, which leads to teams waiting every other room for their long cooldowns so they can wipe everything again.

 

no thank you very much ma'am.

Edited May 1, 2013 by MetalGerbil

[Tetsmeha]

Neat. I'd love to wait a minute in cover for my ults to cool down.

 

Oh wait I don't because that's boring.

[Yesodjun]

I dunno.. I just know that I cut everything with my dashing slash dashing Excalibur 999% DPS! Maybe no cooldown but take out evergy balls and put a passive energy regen for all and let the energy Siphon Artifact giving a boost.

[CosyPigeon]

How about we keep the energy system, but have the energy bar recharge slowly over time an remove blue energy orbs. That way you can spam weaker powers, can't spam stronger ones, and aren't completely screwed if you are dependent on your powers for defense but can't find any energy orbs. 

[Yesodjun]

How about we keep the energy system, but have the energy bar recharge slowly over time an remove blue energy orbs. That way you can spam weaker powers, can't spam stronger ones, and aren't completely screwed if you are dependent on your powers for defense but can't find any energy orbs. 

 

Just like my idea. Warframes should be energy self suficient!

[MetalGerbil]

when you have a shared energy pool you have to make a choice. 4 weak attacks or one ult? offense now or defense later? gunplay for now and wait for skills incase you need them.

 

this is interesting,  thoughtful and its worth doing.

 

even on a slow regen you are just making the timer blue and bar shaped. its still a timer.

[SevenHand]

I'm a bit skeptical as this idea sounds like the WoW ability mechanic.  The way Warframe appears to me currently is that the abilities you have are part of you, not four entities unto themselves.

Edited May 1, 2013 by SevenHand

[Spellcasterz]

No,there are already cooldowns on abilities which is annoying enough.

Also there energy drop rate is incredibly high anyway.

If you already hate it now you would have loathed the game a few patches back when there were barely any energy drops(and shared between the team,though not really sure about that).

[Story4]

Cooldowns are better IMO. If you make a high cool-down, but compensate by making abilities more powerful, i think it will add more depth to the gameplay.

 

For example, Loki's decoy is pretty useless in higher levels, getting destroyed in 1 second at the moment. If a 20 CD on decoy was implemented, then the decoy would be invulnerable for 10 seconds, making it better in any situation, not only on lower enemies. If an ally or more allies are in danger, Trinity can use her ultimate which has a 60 seconds CD to resurrect every ally and make them invulnerable for 10 seconds. Ember's fireball will have a bigger AOE and actually hit 4 or 5 infested instead of just one. Ash will be able to teleport more because his ability will have a 5 second CD, making him one of the most flexible warframes.

 

It's just one example of how it can be implemented, but i think that adding cool-downs will be better because:

-every ability will have a purpose. No longer will you just take 1 or 2 abilities because the others are worse or useless. 

-you will have to think when to use you abilities. For example, if you are Rhino and you and your team are attacking a boss, you can't just spam iron skin and get close, it would actually be a better idea to keep it in case any of your team-mates is down, or you could go in close with iron skin and if a team-mate is down use your ultimate to have time to revive him. You won't feel punished either way. The way the game currently is, if you choose to use your ult instead of iron skin you will have -30 seconds of complete invulnerability, making it a pretty poor choice.

-mods could be introduced that, for example, reduce your cool-down, or add a chance that your ability will instantly refresh etc.

-increased warframe individuality. Right now every warframe is unique in it's own way, but increasing the power of every skill will just make them even more different.

 

OP didn't make an elaborate post, which is probably why he is getting all the downvotes, but cooldowns can allow for more of depth of combat instead of just spamming 1 useful skill because you don't want to waste energy on the others.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[Story4]

when you have a shared energy pool you have to make a choice. 4 weak attacks or one ult? offense now or defense later? gunplay for now and wait for skills incase you need them.

 

this is interesting,  thoughtful and its worth doing.

 

even on a slow regen you are just making the timer blue and bar shaped. its still a timer.

 

Actually that is not the state of the game. For Rhino it is actually detrimental to your efficiency to use ult instead of iron skin. For Nyx the same, her ult is useless compared to chaos. I've never seen an Excalibur player use his jump ability, mostly because he could use other abilities like slash dash instead. Same with Ash, i don't think anyone uses shuriken. Loki's ult in solo play actually makes it worse for him (as i have seen) because if you use it on enemies like the Grineer which have high armor will rush towards you with melee instead of standing still at range waiting to get killed by headshots.

[KaizerPrime]

when you have a shared energy pool you have to make a choice. 4 weak attacks or one ult? offense now or defense later? gunplay for now and wait for skills incase you need them.

 

this is interesting,  thoughtful and its worth doing.

 

even on a slow regen you are just making the timer blue and bar shaped. its still a timer.

Maybe in theory, but in practice it's more running around shooting at mobs all the time until there's a big cluster of them, when you use your ult and pray that they drop some stupid blue balls to replenish your energy. It'd feel much better to be able to constantly intertwine your warframe powers in battles, instead of just saving them for the big clusters of enemy.

[Venarge]

So what about people who prefer less skills but more mods?
Screw them right....

 

Cooldown is simply a bad idea.

[Xtorma]

I believe the devs have addressed the cooldown issue before. They believe it slows down gameplay. ME3MP did cooldowns right IMO, because of the weight system. You had to choose between weapon power and ability cooldown speed, so you ended up with a more balanced build. (more or less, wraith cough, cough)

 

No matter what system they put in game, there are going to be tradeoffs. With warframe it ends up ( for me, not everyone will agree) that powers on many warframes are "extra" and not really necessary for success. This game is definatly a shooter.

[Kamisan]

I would agree that the cooldown system is a bad idea, this is a fast paced action game at it's core, putting a cooldown will slow down gameplay by a tonne, have you seen how WoW groups work with cooldowns? It's about and HOUR to clear a short dungeon without a stream of enemies constantly popping in, skills with cooldown will just cause players to totally drop skills altogether and rely on gunplay to clear enemies, why? Because maybe they can use the skill later when they need it, Maybe.

 

Though I agree that there should be another way to replenish energy, the Siphon artifact is just wonderful for filling this niche, just wish there was some way to upgrade it's effects.

 

P.S. I would also agree that Loki's maxed Decoy really bites the dust rather quickly under a heavy stream of fire, though it's rather useful for Decoy and run the heck away tactics.

[KaizerPrime]

I believe the devs have addressed the cooldown issue before. They believe it slows down gameplay. ME3MP did cooldowns right IMO, because of the weight system. You had to choose between weapon power and ability cooldown speed, so you ended up with a more balanced build. (more or less, wraith cough, cough)

 

No matter what system they put in game, there are going to be tradeoffs. With warframe it ends up ( for me, not everyone will agree) that powers on many warframes are "extra" and not really necessary for success. This game is definatly a shooter.

But if it's just a shooter, what differentiates the warframes from each other? You'll end up with everyone picking Frost, standing in an icebubble and gunning down hordes with their HEKs or Gorgons (Oh wait, isn't that whats happening now?)

[Ryanshow]

The energy system is flawed. You end up skipping over certain skills; why bother with using a radial blind for 50 energy when you can just slash dash twice and kill all the enemies for the same energy cost?

 

A cooldown system would make the warframes use ALL of their abilities, and help distinguish them better between each other

 

This still wouldn't work. There is no way I am going to spend mod capacity on radial flash anyways.

 

Also you take one example and say that the system needs to be completely rewritten? Whatever happened to balance? Maybe radial blind should just cost less. Or be otherwise advantageous so that it would be used.

 

[Ryanshow]

 

Cooldowns are better IMO. If you make a high cool-down, but compensate by making abilities more powerful, i think it will add more depth to the gameplay.

 

For example, Loki's decoy is pretty useless in higher levels, getting destroyed in 1 second at the moment. If a 20 CD on decoy was implemented, then the decoy would be invulnerable for 10 seconds, making it better in any situation, not only on lower enemies. If an ally or more allies are in danger, Trinity can use her ultimate which has a 60 seconds CD to resurrect every ally and make them invulnerable for 10 seconds. Ember's fireball will have a bigger AOE and actually hit 4 or 5 infested instead of just one. Ash will be able to teleport more because his ability will have a 5 second CD, making him one of the most flexible warframes.

 

It's just one example of how it can be implemented, but i think that adding cool-downs will be better because:

-every ability will have a purpose. No longer will you just take 1 or 2 abilities because the others are worse or useless. 

-you will have to think when to use you abilities. For example, if you are Rhino and you and your team are attacking a boss, you can't just spam iron skin and get close, it would actually be a better idea to keep it in case any of your team-mates is down, or you could go in close with iron skin and if a team-mate is down use your ultimate to have time to revive him. You won't feel punished either way. The way the game currently is, if you choose to use your ult instead of iron skin you will have -30 seconds of complete invulnerability, making it a pretty poor choice.

-mods could be introduced that, for example, reduce your cool-down, or add a chance that your ability will instantly refresh etc.

-increased warframe individuality. Right now every warframe is unique in it's own way, but increasing the power of every skill will just make them even more different.

 

OP didn't make an elaborate post, which is probably why he is getting all the downvotes, but cooldowns can allow for more of depth of combat instead of just spamming 1 useful skill because you don't want to waste energy on the others.

 

 

It is wishful thinking that making abilities into cooldowns will mean that the devs make them more powerful.

 

You are fantasizing your own balance, your thoughts may not reflect what would actually happen in such a scenario.

 

This argument is made be a lot of the pro-cooldown camp. But the two do not necessarily go together. We aren't guaranteed more useful skills if they are on cooldown. How were they before when they were on cooldowns? I wasn't around for the closed beta.

 

[Venarge]

 You'll end up with everyone picking Frost, standing in an icebubble and gunning down hordes with their HEKs or Gorgons (Oh wait, isn't that whats happening now?)

 

Yeah. it seems you havent played much....

I havent seen a frost in days....

[Mietz]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/38027-warframes-mods-powers-and-weaponry/

[Story4]

This still wouldn't work. There is no way I am going to spend mod capacity on radial flash anyways.

 

Also you take one example and say that the system needs to be completely rewritten? Whatever happened to balance? Maybe radial blind should just cost less. Or be otherwise advantageous so that it would be used.

 

 

If the game encourages you to not get all the warframe's abilities, which is pretty much the only thing that makes it special, then something is wrong. If all warframes looked the same you could just have had a slider :

Less Speed               More Speed

More HP                           Less Hp

And you could make all the current warframes. And again since the only thing making warframes unique are their abilities, encouraging a player not to get them all something is wrong.'

 

@ Ryanshow are you serious?

OFC that with longer cooldowns will come better abilities. They do go together. It's not wishful thinking, anyone logical would make abilities that have a higher cooldown better and stronger. Else what would be the point of cool-down? You could just have the current system but with energy regeneration (or 4 team-mates with energy siphon currently) and just spam all-day. Or have 5 sec cool-down and do the same.

 

Also i don't buy the whole "but people will just wait for their abilities to cool-down, energy promotes faster gameplay". Currently if you have 4 team-mates with energy siphon the energy will also regenerate very fast and a lot of people backtrack to find blue orbs to replenish their energy, wasting time. So instead of waiting for your cool-down to refresh your wasting time going back. Same time wasted no difference.

 

Just because you are actually running doesn't mean that it is faster since your running backwards, not forward. Or maybe energy system does promote faster gameplay because you only use 1 or 2 OP abilities compared to the others.

 

@Venarge, i have seen a Frost or a Rhino 80% of the time, maybe more.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Story4

[Ryanshow]

@ Ryanshow are you serious?

OFC that with longer cooldowns will come better abilities. They do go together. It's not wishful thinking, anyone logical would make abilities that have a higher cooldown better and stronger. Else what would be the point of cool-down? You could just have the current system but with energy regeneration (or 4 team-mates with energy siphon currently) and just spam all-day. Or have 5 sec cool-down and do the same.

 

You still haven't said anything to convince me that the two coincide.

 

Who is to say that they wouldn't just slap a 3 second fast cooldown on decoy and leave it as powerful as it currently is?

 

You really do not know, you are inserting your own balance and claiming you know exactly what would happen. Which just means you're talking out of your ...

 

I'd really like to hear how things were when cooldowns were present.