Petition To Remove Frame And Weapon Slot Limits Or Offer A Free Way To Get Them

[Mietz]

Fine then, but i still don't get the difference between playing 20 hours for 20 plat or 20 hours to get a warframe slot. OR maybe just make another currency with which you can only buy slots and potatoes if people are so much against gaining platinum.

 

If you want, just think of the currency as Mastery Points if that is more comfortable for you.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Mietz

[Story4]

If you want, just think of the currency as Mastery Points if that is more comfortable for you.

 

But it is not because masteries get harder and harder to achieve the bigger the level you have. Why not make the masteries require the same amount of xp to get, but when you get a mastery you get 1 mastery perk point and with that you can get a Wf slot, 2 weapon slots or an orokin reactor...

Edited May 4, 2013 by Story4

[Mietz]

But it is not because masteries get harder and harder to achieve the bigger the level you have. Why not make the masteries require the same amount of xp to get, but when you get a mastery you get 1 mastery perk point and with that you can get a Wf slot, 2 weapon slots or an orokin reactor...

 

Why not make Mastery Points directly pay for things?

 

10.000 MP for WF slot

5.000 MP for weapon slot

 

You can decide if you want higher mastery or more slots.

 

I don't really know why you insist on orokin reactors and catalysts, they are already obtainable ingame or with starter plat.

[Story4]

Why not make Mastery Points directly pay for things?

 

10.000 MP for WF slot

5.000 MP for weapon slot

 

You can decide if you want higher mastery or more slots.

 

I don't really know why you insist on orokin reactors and catalysts, they are already obtainable ingame or with starter plat.

 

Well just in case you know ^^. What if someone doesn't get a orokin BP on the alerts or login rewards?. Yeah i won't mind that thing with mastery points, i think it's a pretty good idea actually. Want more slots, sacrifice mastery.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Story4

[Aggh]

Why not make Mastery Points directly pay for things?

 

10.000 MP for WF slot

5.000 MP for weapon slot

 

You can decide if you want higher mastery or more slots.

 

I don't really know why you insist on orokin reactors and catalysts, they are already obtainable ingame or with starter plat.

"But you have starter plat" is one of the S#&$tiest arguments I've seen in any of these discussions. Getting one or two potatoes or a couple slots for free is not going to keep people playing for very long.  It's given to players so they can get a taste of plat and make the beginning experience a bit easier.  It's not there so people can buy stuff that can only be gotten with plat.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Aggh

[Mietz]

 It's not there so people can buy stuff that can only be gotten with plat.

 

I reiterate in caps.

 

YOU CAN ALREADY GET CATALYSTS THROUGH GAMEPLAY.

[Aggh]

I reiterate in caps.

 

YOU CAN ALREADY GET CATALYSTS THROUGH GAMEPLAY.

You can get catalysts through being on your computer at the right time of day, gameplay has little to do with it; there have been multi week stretches without a single potato alert.  It's still a weak argument and it's even more weak when applied to slots, which can only be gotten with plat.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Aggh

[Mietz]

What if someone doesn't get a orokin BP on the alerts or login rewards?

 

Then I wish them better luck next time.

 

In my opinion, to quell the whine about unreliable acquisition of reactors and catalysts, let them put the potatoes in the mod bundles with a high % chance to get one.

 

So people feel like its "fair", even though it isn't.

 

I would also not say no to selling BP boosters for credits where you can get a catalyst/reactor BP on a low % chance.

 

Lets make it something like 40.000 cr, so like ~2 BP worth and then give 4 BPs in exchange in the bundle, but they are going to be random.

 

So you can get 4x a Braton or 4x a catalyst BP depending on your luck that day.

 

A new credit sink and players with S#&$tons of cash can play lottery to get that BP they always wanted.

 

Edited May 4, 2013 by Mietz

[Mietz]

You can get catalysts through being on your computer at the right time of day, gameplay has little to do with it;

 

Yes, that is the difference between paying and not paying.

With one you play the lottery, with the other you buy your prize directly.

 

You want certainty? Buy it. Thats the incentive.

 

I have 45 hours played over 4 months, all my weapons have potatoes, all my warframes have potatoes.

 

Either I'm incredibly lucky or getting lucky isn't that hard.

 

I have not spent a cent on this game so far.

[Story4]

Well that's cus the alert system isn't very good, it only awards waiting on twitter not actually playing the game.

 

I have 150 hours and played for almost 2 months and don't have a potato for everything and i usually watch twitter with complete commitment.

 

A way to get them in game without having to resort to being lucky to be there when the alert pops up should be implemented. But this is off-topic, since we are here to discuss slots. not potatoes.

[Aggh]

Yes, that is the difference between paying and not paying.

With one you play the lottery, with the other you buy your prize directly.

 

You want certainty? Buy it. Thats the incentive.

 

I have 45 hours played over 4 months, all my weapons have potatoes, all my warframes have potatoes.

 

Either I'm incredibly lucky or getting lucky isn't that hard.

 

I have not spent a cent on this game so far.

No, that's how it works in S#&$ty Asian f2p games.  Good f2p games actually let you work towards earning things.  F2p players are a population in f2p games that are supposed to be maintained and kept as a large population, it's the whole purpose of the system, to maintain a large population for paying players to play with.  When a system that gives out some of the best items doesn't actually encourage them to play the game, it defeats the entire purpose of the f2p model.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Aggh

[Xtorma]

This is an endless debate that is slowly degenerating into

 

Is not!

Is so!

 

This can't be resolved because we don't have the data to resolve it.

 

On one hand you have the camp that says that the game is loosing too many players(and therefore revenue) due to the fact that they cannot keep all the content they unlock.

 

On the other hand you have the folks that say DE can't make enough money to survive if they open up slots as earned content.

 

None of these camps have any numbers to back up thier claims, they are simply claiming they are true.

 

If I were DE, it would be my desire to give all content out for free and make my revenue from convenience and cosmetics. At the same time I must temper that goal with the fact that i must continually fund my enterprise. If I agree with this statement, then I can assume by what they are doing now with the store that they are not to a point in playerbase numbers where they can make the switch.

 

Some people are picking up the game and then leaving it, but I think has much more to do with the stage of development, and not so much the cash shop. At this point it is very easy to max out and have little motivation to continue. As more and more diverse content becomes available, in the form of different playstyles for warframes, different modes of play, and a  solid end game progression system, the retention will start to become better. Accounts will stay active longer, and they will be able to fully make the switch from a content restrictive model to a more desirable convenience/cosmetic model, while still funding development and turning a decent margin.

 

Or maybe i'm just coocoo.

[Story4]

@Xtorma you can't just make a switch whenever you like, a system should have been implemented in the closed beta or after open beta started. Now because F2P players feel limited they will probably leave and not come back, if they were not limited then they would have stayed and keep playing. The numbers of F2P players will actually get lower and lower the more this limited slots unless you pay system will remain implemented.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Story4

[Xtorma]

@Xtorma 1. you can't just make a switch whenever you like, a system should have been implemented in the closed beta or after open beta started. 2. Now because F2P players feel limited they will probably leave and not come back, if they were not limited then they would have stayed and keep playing. The numbers of F2P players will actually get lower and lower the more this limited slots unless you pay system will remain implemented.

Lets take a look at your post.

1.We have no way of knowing what thier system is going to end up being. Thier business plan may be short term frontloaded pay for content model that slowly transitions into a pay for convience/cosmetic model as the revenue supports it.  Do you have any numbers, or indicators that would bolster your argument that the game will fail if they continue on a pay for content model? The people who are arguing for the system to stay the same have months of success to back up thier claims that the current model works. It's going to be very difficult to debate for change when you have no numbers to barter with.

2. Once again, where are your numbers? Say they have lost 4000 players from peak playerbase, how many of that number is a result of the pay model? You are absolutly correct that there will be some players that leave because they feel the pay for content model is too restrictive, but how many? If the pay for content model is creating a raise in revenue month to month then it is working. They are experiencing growth. There is really no need to change the model until revenue growth begins to slow to a point where they can't meet thier assiged margins. Also I must reiterate that they may have already thought about this, and thier plan is to slowly transition as the revenue allows.

 

I mean, I understand what you are saying.You have a different business model that you feel is the better option. All I am saying is you need to prove it, and you don't have the data to do so.

[Story4]

Well i know that i can't prove it and that i don't have the data, but it also goes the other way, you don't have any data to prove that players are actually staying and not just making accounts and then leaving and neither can you prove that they are staying.

 

Thing is that they did experience growth, being among the top 10 on steam, but the growth should have been constant if people actually stayed in the game, especially because it is on the steam front page, but since they are already down 4000 concurrent players after just a few weeks it means that a big portion of people who tried already left.

 

At least that's how i see it. And i was saying that you can't switch a cash-shop system because if you don't do it properly you might anger the fans that already paid for the founders pack and if you don't implement a good cash-shop you will anger F2P players and they will leave, wasting a big portion of a possible clientele.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Story4

[Windbow]

This is an issue that keeps coming back again and again. Obviously for some people, the slots for plats is a (literally) game-changing issue that will cause them to leave this game for other games. It's also true that there are many for which this is a non-issue and happily buy the slots. The thing is, anything you do - spend time or money on, is based on the value proposition to you. You personally. You cannot project your own views on countless unknown persons. Is playing this game fun enough to be worth your time? Is buying plats worth the money? Are slots worth the plats? Only each player can answer that.

 

The fact is, any game (any thing, really) is not for everyone. There will always be people who will come by, check out the game, hit something like the slot limit or anything else, really (lack of story? too much grinding?), and leave. People will leave for some reason or other. I think DE is smart enough to understand that.

 

Equally, people will stay for their own reasons. Btw. it's also not a done and closed case that those who leave will never come back. This game is still in beta and we know for a fact that there's plenty of content coming down the pipeline. Plenty. There will be more to do than grind for bps and mods. Update 8 will add clan features, for example. There will be reasons for people to come back. Plus, games news sites, gameplay vids, word of mouth or just plain curiosity will tempt them to take another look.

 

For better or worse, DE has decided to stick with slots for plats all through CB and now OB. They must have numbers to support their decision.  Someone gave a number of what, ~4k players down on steam? We have hit 1 million registered players according to DEdevs during the same time and trending upwards. It's one of the reasons the hamsters had to be super-ized. If/when the numbers show otherwise, I'm sure DE will evolve.

 

So... if there's nothing more to be said (without repeating the same points), let's end this thread, shall we?

[Xtorma]

Why are you locking the thread?

[Story4]

@Windbow, If you have 1 million registered players, but only 20.000 on steam at a peak, losing 4000 at peak would mean that you've lost 20% of 1 million players, 200.000 players. Not a very good thing losing that many players in a few weeks.

 

Also, bussines wise, it is much cheaper (10 times i think?) to keep a customer than try and get another one. Since players already tried this game, they can be considered a free customer, but in time if they get invested in the game eventually they will decide that they don't want to grind for something anymore, because their time is worth more and pay either to support the game by paying for not grinding or they will buy skins/color to use on their favorite warframes so that they will be different from the other players.

 

If you lose customers, it is much harder to get them back, especially if they went on playing and getting invested in a game other than yours.

 

EDIT: I just want to add that getting a new customer is much more expensive especially because of all the marketing cost. If you have customers that are loyal, they are going to advertise your game for free to others by word-of-mouth, which is pretty much the best way of advertising.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Story4

[Windbow]

Why are you locking the thread?

 

I obviously haven't since you just posted to it. I also never said I was going to. I've read from post 1 and it just seems to have run its course.

[Xtorma]

I obviously haven't since you just posted to it. I also never said I was going to. I've read from post 1 and it just seems to have run its course.

My appologies, I misinterpreted what "lets end this thread shall we" meant.

[Windbow]

@Windbow, If you have 1 million registered players, but only 20.000 on steam at a peak, losing 4000 at peak would mean that you've lost 20% of 200.000 players. Not a very good thing losing that many players in a few weeks.

 

Also, bussines wise, it is much cheaper (10 times i think?) to keep a customer than try and get another one. Since players already tried this game, they can be considered a free customer, but in time if they get invested in the game eventually they will decide that they don't want to grind for something anymore, because their time is worth more and pay either to support the game by paying for not grinding or they will buy skins/color to use on their favorite warframes so that they will be different from the other players.

 

If you lose customers, it is much harder to get them back, especially if they went on playing and getting invested in a game other than yours.

 

I agree we got our biggest numbers boost after the steam 'release'. However there are plenty of folks who don't play on steam. Plus, the numbers of players on steam is only one metric. From a business perspective, it's actually better if a smaller number or players play and pay than a huge number of players who play but don't pay. Huge numbers mean larger burden on server infrastructure. If they don't pay the bills and make a profit, there's no point to it. As a business.

 

Your second part: Yes, but how many games have what Warframe provides? The gameplay and art? The look and feel? Not all games are equal in everyone's eyes. Warframe, to me, is different. Even compared to similar games. Obviously, DE feels that they have enough of a differentiating factor and that their numbers support their decision to charge plats for slots. You don't have the data they have.

 

You have stated your opinion and explained in some detail your angle and your concerns. This thread isn't the first to bring up this issue. I do know for a fact that decision-making folks like DE_Steve understand where people like you are coming from.

 

All I'm saying is that they have decided to stay the course wrt slots for the time being and that's it. I've been on the forums long enough to have seen many people make the same arguments as you have. It's perfectly valid, I'm not saying it's not. Others don't agree with you and for reasons I've seen before as well. For now, it seems DE also doesn't agree with you but that's not to say they won't ever change that. In fact, iinm, someone did rightly mention that DE_Steve will be looking into making slots at mastery leveling a reality at some point. They are open to making slots available for other than plats but they do need to balance that with the opportunity cost of not nudging people to give them some money.

 

At the end of the day, it's the value proposition. Is Warframe fun to play for you? Fun enough to keep playing? That you'd like to see Warframe up and running for some time to come so that you can continue to play it? Do you want more content and features while continuing to play it? Then support it. If not, don't.

 

 

Aside: I think SoulEchelon mentioned that DE_Steve said slots take up server space. The truth is, a slot is not just 1 slot. People don't buy slots for fun. Each slot will quickly contain the item (frame or gun) customized to colour and/or skin and the mods (each mod can be of any level) and the computed values for all the mods (plus intrinsic levels of shields, power and health boost per level). Plus the added stats of your usage of that item. It all adds up. Especially when you scale up to a million users. Without that slot, that's a whole bunch of data you don't hold in your database.

 

DE just does not have the large coffers that something like EA has. They need to grow Warframe infrastructure as playerbase grows with the right ratio of income per player. If playerbase grows too quickly, their infrastructure won't be able to take it and it will crash. As it has when it launched on steam. More servers mean more money is needed for not just hardware but also personnel to maintain the systems.

[Windbow]

My appologies, I misinterpreted what "lets end this thread shall we" meant.

 

No harm no foul. That was more of me inviting/suggesting than me signalling I was bringing down the hammer. :)

Sorry for the wrong signals.

[Aggh]

This is an issue that keeps coming back again and again. Obviously for some people, the slots for plats is a (literally) game-changing issue that will cause them to leave this game for other games. It's also true that there are many for which this is a non-issue and happily buy the slots. The thing is, anything you do - spend time or money on, is based on the value proposition to you. You personally. You cannot project your own views on countless unknown persons. Is playing this game fun enough to be worth your time? Is buying plats worth the money? Are slots worth the plats? Only each player can answer that.

 

The fact is, any game (any thing, really) is not for everyone. There will always be people who will come by, check out the game, hit something like the slot limit or anything else, really (lack of story? too much grinding?), and leave. People will leave for some reason or other. I think DE is smart enough to understand that.

 

Equally, people will stay for their own reasons. Btw. it's also not a done and closed case that those who leave will never come back. This game is still in beta and we know for a fact that there's plenty of content coming down the pipeline. Plenty. There will be more to do than grind for bps and mods. Update 8 will add clan features, for example. There will be reasons for people to come back. Plus, games news sites, gameplay vids, word of mouth or just plain curiosity will tempt them to take another look.

 

For better or worse, DE has decided to stick with slots for plats all through CB and now OB. They must have numbers to support their decision.  Someone gave a number of what, ~4k players down on steam? We have hit 1 million registered players according to DEdevs during the same time and trending upwards. It's one of the reasons the hamsters had to be super-ized. If/when the numbers show otherwise, I'm sure DE will evolve.

 

So... if there's nothing more to be said (without repeating the same points), let's end this thread, shall we?

4k concurrent users (ie people playing the game at a given moment) down.  That translates to a hell of a lot more than 4k registered users since the number of registered users are rarely representative of how many people are actually playing the game.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Aggh

[RedFaceGeneral]

If DE is really just trying to nickel and dime us they wouldn't have added some weapons like Dark Sword and Dark Daggers that are exclusive to Alert mission reward, they can just set a price for those items.

[Aggh]

If DE is really just trying to nickel and dime us they wouldn't have added some weapons like Dark Sword and Dark Daggers that are exclusive to Alert mission reward, they can just set a price for those items.

Lol why would they have a problem with giving away some of the worst weapons in the game?  Besides, you'll need a slot to use them.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Aggh