Why The Grakata Is Underpowered And Not Worth Buying.

[mmSNAKE]

Why even compare it to the Gorgon. It can't compete with the regular Braton.

 

It has higher damage per shot, and per second. It's more economical, more accurate due to less recoil so you have a chance to waste less rounds with it. Braton costs 10k credits (which you can get in less than 5 minutes now), requires no build time and it's easier to use than Grakata is.

 

On paper and in practice the Grakata doesn't compete with the Braton well enough to be worth it. For a weapon that needs to be crafted I'd expect a bit more than what it offers.

[Dasmir]

i dunno since the update the grakata has A LOT MORE ACC than the gorgon. The only thing this baby needs is a little more base damage and critical chance and tada.

 

Also stop comparing a SMG with a LMG really. The grakata was made in doing a lot of headshots at close range with full burts (its does perfectly) and the Gorgon as a Spray and pray + controlled burst (they removed that for no reason...)

 

Right now the grakata has really good dps if you ignore the ammo (you will carry ammo boxes anyway) and with +2 or +1 in base damage will increase that a lot + the critical bonus.

 

For me the grakata should have 12-14 base damage and will be perfect.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Dasmir

[Argoms]

To me, the problem with the grakata is that it's designed to use crits, something which doesn't work well in this game. They're random, not particularly powerful, and mess with any attempt at being efficient with your shots per enemy. It's a literal lotto cannon.

 

on paper always everthing looks so op/up,

the thing is this is not a game like wow,aion or something like that.

where you can nearly perfect calculate you min~max dps on paper

you can calculate as long as you want ingame it will be diffrent.

on paper snipetron is the strongest weapon of them all!

the reality shows us, nope the most would prefer the default braton over it

 

 

So, so wrong. Snipetron does lowest sustained damage per second out of primary guns and is only a "good" weapon when fighting four or less enemies at a time. It has a long reload speed, ammo drops are rare, and also low ammo reserves. On paper, it's a terrible weapon to use. What sort of paper were you using? :I

 

Reality shows us exactly what we expect- the snipetron can kill a few targets, but is bad at crowds. Since the majority of this game's enemies attack in groups larger than 4, it's outdone by the braton, which has a higher magazine capacity, damage per magazine, and overall sustained damage per second.

[scaleblue]

You said that skill.... makes a guns stats suck despar....

I dont care how skiled a person is.... you are saying personal accuracy is the reason THE GRAKATA SUCKS...... i dont care... about personal accuracy....
if you cant aim i dont care....

I can use the Gorgon and the Grakata with nearly 100% accuracy..
so if you cant then thats your own fault...
http://memecrunch.com/meme/7HFT/ancient-mexican-meme/image.png
Oh look i posted an image.... maybe that will mean im correct....
 

Edited May 3, 2013 by scaleblue

[Depar]

I can use the Gorgon and the Grakata with nearly 100% accuracy..

so if you cant then thats your own fault...

http://memecrunch.com/meme/7HFT/ancient-mexican-meme/image.png

Oh look i posted an image.... maybe that will mean im correct....

 

1. so you can? i want to see that

2. false, you posted an link leading to a image, maybe that will mean you're not correct? :3

 

Edit:

 

 

Let's compromise.

 

Neither of you make sense.

Its not about making any sense,

its about sending a message

Edited May 3, 2013 by Depar

[MEsoJD]

 The Grakata is pretty op now in my opinion. Max out multishot, crit, crit chance, armor piercing, clip, etc.. The accuracy isn't that bad. Try tapping it.

Edited May 3, 2013 by MEsoJD

[mmSNAKE]

 The Grakata is pretty op now in my opinion. Max out multishot, crit, crit chance, armor piercing, magazine , etc.. The accuracy isn't that bad. Try tapping it.

 

Tapping it hamper's on it's effective DPS to sacrifice for range. Regardless Braton beats it out. Does that make Braton OP?

Edited May 3, 2013 by mmSNAKE

[ViciousCrux]

So the Grakata has worse accuracy than the Gorgon?  You said the wiki had false info, but the info I'm seeing there is the same as the in game tooltips.  This would be a lot clearer to me if I could just use the damn thing but I've got to get some more Alloy Plates and then wait 12 be$hitted hours.

[Sparrohawk]

This is honestly like watching a pair of stoned professors argue while they steadily get more drunk and less intelligent.

[scaleblue]

So the Grakata has worse accuracy than the Gorgon?  You said the wiki had false info, but the info I'm seeing there is the same as the in game tooltips.  This would be a lot clearer to me if I could just use the damn thing but I've got to get some more Alloy Plates and then wait 12 be$hitted hours.

Ive used it ingame, it has worse accuracy.

Here is proof for people without brains.

Gorgon

Grakata

Edited May 3, 2013 by scaleblue

[MEsoJD]

 

[Feynt]

I think the problem is you need a catalyst to make the grakata awesome.  But, if you had a catalyst for other weapons, you could get a more awesome weapon.  Like, the braton could have a max fire rate mod and do better than the grakata for damage, especially at range.  The latron with fire rate would be better still, you could sacrifice a few points on one of the mods in that picture easily to max the fire rate mod because the base damage is so much higher than the grakata.  Try making it a viable weapon at 30 points rather than 60.  

 

I'm sad to say the grakata falls into the "fun but ineffective" category.  The same was mostly true with the afuris, I felt it was always a little bit...  lacking at 30, strong for damage output but wasteful of ammo.  I put a catalyst on it and suddenly I'm killing high level enemies in 3 bullets.  I feel like it needs a little innate armour ignore because it sounds like a sliver gun to be honest when it fires.

[Depar]

Don't be so smug about speaking other languages. Nor does that give you a free pass with "I don't write well enough because English is not my native".

 

Arguing for the sake of arguing or trying to get anger out of someone makes you just as bad as the other guy. Give it a rest and have a good evening.

i "speak" 4 languages, being grammatical correct is some point i cannot, and you're right it makes me not better as scaleblue

but im not an racist  with no self-controll at all, any rly? its my opinion and nobody has 2 share it but tickle him near insanity and make him

all "rage-y" totally amuse me.

 

No abla mexican

also for post like this you should get reported, i'v, like i said befor, not amuse me this far

and currently mexicans speak spanish, not "mexican"

 

I asked him about 3 time to leave me alone, and he wont, then he said he arguing because he is trying to make a point and that he isnt trying to make any sense.....    and so what ever he says doesnt matter... and so i can make fun of him because he thinks he has any more say in this matter... like i care about anything else he has too say....

you asked me 1 time to not bother you any further, and yes at my very first post im just want to tell you, you can not calculate the dps in a shoother like warframe because you cant predict 100% of hitting your target, and the only repeats i get was instantly rude and harsh. so i start "all trollmode"

and actually you do care about what im saying otherwise you wouldt go suffer this anger

[Depar]

Being instantly "rude and harsh" makes you look juvenile. Speaking four languages doesn't help that either. I'm Croatian, that is my native. I can express myself in English both verbally and in writing without much issue. I do however, make some effort, in punctuation, basic grammar and spelling.  The way your statements look is also important to how credible you are.

 

Anyway, this is too much off the topic. Either argue the Grakata, or stop. Get back on the subject. I'll be happy to give my reasoning as to why Grakata is crap as it stands currently.

if im reliable in "trollmode" something just go wrong :3

 

and what the OP want 2 tell you is that on paper, the gorgon is much stronger in terms of dps as the grakata. the main issue for me is that on paper many weapons can do significant dmg/dps but in-game the whole dps calculating is some sort of useless because you cant rly hit you whole magazin trigger down on a boss and expect every bullet to hit, even if you're using mag/ having a mag in team who cast bullet attrator on the target there a plenty of things that gonna prevent you from doing the calculated dmg

 

the problem is every mention of it cause the OPer to rage

 

and comparing the grakata to a gorgon is like comparing banans and oranges

the grakata is built for crit% and crit dmg/aiming for weakspots and the gorgon is(since ne last nerf) a wind it up and spray-n-pray a whole meatwall of enemys down

 

i asked the same ViciousCrux

his answer was " no able mexican"

Edited May 3, 2013 by Depar

[ViciousCrux]

What the hell?  You just posted some pics of your characters holding the weapons in game.  How does that even begin to show the accuracy of each weapon?

[mmSNAKE]

if im reliable in "trollmode" something just go wrong :3

 

and what the OP want 2 tell you is that on paper, the gorgon is much stronger in terms of dps as the grakata. the main issue for me is that on paper many weapons can do significant dmg/dps but in-game the whole dps calculating is some sort of useless because you cant rly hit you whole magazin trigger down on a boss and expect every bullet to hit, even if you're using mag/ having a mag in team who cast bullet attrator on the target there a plenty of things that gonna prevent you from doing the calculated dmg

 

the problem is every mention of it cause the OPer to rage

 

 

You can hit the entire magazine. You just have to be close enough. The entire calculation regarding the weapon DPS between the two is pretty straight forward. Not much changes if it's the same user. The same error will be consistent regarding which weapon is used.

 

If both weapons show great inaccuracy, and one tends to miss with one, he will miss with the other as well. This will equally damper the end result on both ends.

 

As it stands Gorgon is suffering greatly from the inaccuracy but so is the Grakata. Firing both in burst doesn't solve the problem in which one deals more damage.

 

To be honest I wouldn't bring up Gorgon up at the moment, the last nerf put it in a spot where it feels the weapon doesn't have a place yet. Rather compare Grakata to something that is fairly ironed out and doesn't need adjusting. Like the Braton, which again beats it on every front, while being more accessible and easier to use.

[Depar]

You can hit the entire magazine. You just have to be close enough. The entire calculation regarding the weapon DPS between the two is pretty straight forward. Not much changes if it's the same user. The same error will be consistent regarding which weapon is used.

 

If both weapons show great inaccuracy, and one tends to miss with one, he will miss with the other as well. This will equally damper the end result on both ends.

 

As it stands Gorgon is suffering greatly from the inaccuracy but so is the Grakata. Firing both in burst doesn't solve the problem in which one deals more damage.

 

To be honest I wouldn't bring up Gorgon up at the moment, the last nerf put it in a spot where it feels the weapon doesn't have a place yet. Rather compare Grakata to something that is fairly ironed out and doesn't need adjusting. Like the Braton, which again beats it on every front, while being more accessible and easier to use.

 yeah but still this 2 have diffrent clipsizes and reloading speed so i cant fully agree with you in this point, but in terms of using a braton, you're right other rifles are better choices as both ot the calculated guns in this thread. at the end of the day you could stay on your default rifle and doing better, but for me its all about how i can handle a wpn and how it fits my playstyle

Edited May 3, 2013 by Depar

[mmSNAKE]

 yeah but still this 2 have diffrent clipsizes and reloading speed so i cant fully agree with you in this point, but in terms of using a braton, you're right other rifles are better choices as both ot the calculated guns in this thread. at the end of the day you could stay on your default rifle and doing better, but for me its al about i can handle a wpn and how it fits my playstyle

 

Gorgon beats out Grakata on magazine size, even though Gorgon has double the reload time the Grakata still does not match it in damage per second. Gorgon currently is only used for very close range shooting, like a shotgun. In that range Grakata will never out damage it.

 

180dps vs 300 dps. Not to mention Gorgon does a hell lot more damage total per magazine than Grakata.

 

24*90 = 2160 (Gorgon)

9*60   = 540   (Grakata)

 

This means it take Grakata 4 magazines to deal the total damage of one magazine of Gorgon.

So let's see. It takes 3 seconds at rate of 20 (assuming that value is 20 per second) to empty out 60 rounds. 

3*4+2.3*3 = 18.9s to output the same amount it takes Gorgon to empty out one magazine.

 

I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure Gorgon, even with it's spin up, does not take almost 19 seconds to empty it's 90 rounds. Even including it's 4.2s reload speed.

 

Braton is not the default rifle. Mk1. Braton is. You can purchase Braton for 10k credits outright.

 

Regarding your preference and play style. That is perfectly fine. No one is telling you how you should enjoy this game. That is up to you, however what you feel isn't necessarily what is efficient.

Edited May 3, 2013 by mmSNAKE

[Ced23Ric]

Oh hai!

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I cleaned this thread up. Stay on topic and cut it with the racism.

Furthermore, instigating and prodding isn't good conduct either.

 

Cheers,

The Green Rangers. :P

[Depar]

if i not selled my for a free wpn slot i would test it, how i remember you clean your clip in under 10 sec's if im no totally wrong

 

 

Edit:

 

You shall have my word, i will not spread misery and chaos in this thread anymore!

Edited May 3, 2013 by Depar

[ViciousCrux]

So I answered my own question finally.  OP was apparently not correct when saying that the Gorgon is more accurate than the Grakata.  Even after this last patch the Grakata is much much more accurate.  There's a bit of a vertical recoil tendency but its not difficult to compensate for.  You can use the Grakata at mid range with burst fire with good results.  Its a bit of pain to level up but I had the same experience with the Gorgon (got it 30 and I love that weapon now).  The Braton is still better but I'm liking the Grakata just fine.

[scaleblue]

So I answered my own question finally.  OP was apparently not correct when saying that the Gorgon is more accurate than the Grakata.  Even after this last patch the Grakata is much much more accurate.  There's a bit of a vertical recoil tendency but its not difficult to compensate for.  You can use the Grakata at mid range with burst fire with good results.  Its a bit of pain to level up but I had the same experience with the Gorgon (got it 30 and I love that weapon now).  The Braton is still better but I'm liking the Grakata just fine.

So the images i posted..... that show the gorgon having more accuracy... are what?

You can say whatever you want but when I posted the images they were correct AND you have no images.

[un.bosque]

Regarding accuracy I think it's important to note that the Grakata has a significant and randomized kick-back in the vertical and horizontal directions. It's the only weapon I know to have such an unpredictable pattern. It makes accurate fire difficult in both full auto and 5-10 shot bursts.

 

I've leveled most of the other primary weapons to thirty and haven't had much of a problem w/ or w/o catalyst, but this weapon seems to underperform by a wide margin, even on M-prime (in comparison to other primaries [i expect to use 9 bullets or more per marine unmodded]). There's got to be a worst-gun-in-the-game, but performs so poorly that it feels more like a developer's joke, that we're playing with the same weapon that our storm-trooper-like inaccurate enemies use, rather than a primary weapon that should be forged or bought.

 

If it is a crit weapon, then it takes 18 points of mod to get full benefit, and even with all of that it gets an effective damage multiplier of ~2.275 (.375*2*2.2+.625) which puts their damage on par with the Braton. I assume this average damage to be a good measure of expected damage given the high fire rate of the Grakata. With these mods it sounds like a ok weapon.

 

The problem as I see it is that this critical mechanic isn't encouraged with polarity slots, with two v-slots for crit-mods and later damage and split mods then the weapon could keep it's humble roots as the bread and butter of our enemy and at the same time both develop into an interesting weapon and become even more identifiable as a critical based weapon.

 

I'd also buff the damage 2-3 points, but that's just more of an IMO to bump it closer to the boltor and gorgon and further away from the sub-MK1-Braton level I see it at now.

[Nuntium]

Snip

I think that a two point damage buff would give it essentially the same DPS as the Braton, taking the higher crit chance into account. Of course, considering its lower accuracy and high recoil it should really have HIGHER DPS than the Braton, but I would deem it craftable if they were at least equal.

[fishworshipper]

So the images i posted..... that show the gorgon having more accuracy... are what?

You can say whatever you want but when I posted the images they were correct AND you have no images.

I don't think shooting a millimeter to the left is going to hamper actual gameplay very much.

EDIT: 666th post OOH SCARY

Edited May 30, 2013 by fishworshipper