Saryn´s Moult Nerf

[Antiks]

Moult has been greatly over nerf'd, I could take the nerf if all of her skills were looked at. However nothing else was improved. She really is lacking in the ability department right now.

[Dipstick]

Yea its total garbage now that I can't block my entire team from entering the air ducts. I guess I will go back to using switch teleport on my team mates all game now.

[RainDreamer]

I think it would be nice if moult have a secondary effect. Like upon using molt, saryn would teleport (slither?) back a distance, out of harm's way and lets enemy attack the decoy.

[GTG3000]

...am I the only player, who haven't exploited moult or used it to troll?

There goes my faith in humanity.

[Dasmir]

...am I the only player, who haven't exploited moult or used it to troll?

There goes my faith in humanity.

 

i trolled my friends one day.. the tentation was.. too hight..

[Dueler]

The arguments against the Moult changes mainly seem to be about its utility in defense missions and how it is "inferior" to Loki's Decoy.

First of all, they're two different frames that fulfill two different roles. Secondly, this Moult change solves a huge problem - before a well placed Moult could force you to fail a mission since it simply didn't expire. All games go through balance changes and IMO while this one may change the way people mod or play Saryn, it solves the bigger issue.

[GTG3000]

The arguments against the Moult changes mainly seem to be about its utility in defense missions and how it is "inferior" to Loki's Decoy.

First of all, they're two different frames that fulfill two different roles. Secondly, this Moult change solves a huge problem - before a well placed Moult could force you to fail a mission since it simply didn't expire. All games go through balance changes and IMO while this one may change the way people mod or play Saryn, it solves the bigger issue.

 

Aaaaand adding the ablility to walk through it wouldn't schieve just the same?

[MoonicusMaximus]

Thank you for a detailed response.

I see where you coming from, yet as a person who never actually exploited moult (call me stupid, why don't you), I say that it would be about as useful as it was, if the ai was fixed. You note though that I used words "give up" rather than "ignore", and I think you will agree that having a way to slow down infested so they would form a nice and cc-able crowd would still work well.

Adding a proper scaling to the moults health/shields (and, possibly, the distraction time before the enemy gives up) would work quite nicely in place of a timer for the still reachable moult. 

 

It still wouldn't solve the issue of its placement potentially lasting far longer than its 25 energy cost should permit.

 

As it is right now, Moult is fine. It's a 25 energy skill that, when used, allows Saryn to distract multiple foes away from herself and others for a limited amount of time. It does the exact same thing it always has done, except now it cannot be exploited in defense missions to greater effect than its low-energy cost dictates.

[DeusInsania]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39344-official-post-saryn-nerf-solution-thread/

 

post your ideas here :D

[bakaxy]

Aaaaand adding the ablility to walk through it wouldn't schieve just the same?

 

Thanks, just wanted to say the same, a big number of the community and DE themself seems to be focused on nerfing stuff to circumvent some issues, instead of actually solving them...

Edited May 5, 2013 by bakaxy

[GloriousYellowEmperor]

Why is everyone saying "LOKI'S IS NOW MORE VIABLE THE NERF WAS TOO HARD"

Rhino's Charge is basically Excalibur's Dash with less damage. So is that useless too?

The different frames are meant to do different things. I'm pretty sure Saryn pumps out way more damage than Loki does on any day. Sure, I think it could use a bit more time on it, but I don't think making direct comparisons to the skills on other frames is the way to do it.

[OrokinNoob]

So I wasn't getting devoured by infested on Jupiter because of my own failures lol.

 

I am not a Saryn player, but I absolutely love playing defense mission with one. The "leave molt in a high place" trick is hilarious, it’s just shooting fish in a barrel. Today I had to work a little harder, but a needed skill change.

 

I can understand why players feel screwed over, I'm just waiting for the day when they finally nerf all us Excaliburs.

Edited May 5, 2013 by OrokinNoob

[GTG3000]

Thanks, just wanted to say the same, a big number of the community and DE themself seems to be focused on nerfing stuff to circumvent some issues, instead of actually solving them...

 

Comunities tend to approach every tweak from one point of view, and it's understandable if the player, that was caught in place by moult and forced to fail the mission, came to forums and let it all out in asking to nerf it.

 

It's less understandable, why measures DE deploys scream "nerf" lately, while in the very same update we can see pretty reasonable tweaking.

[-Grey-]

Loki n the Sary is two different tales. Loki is fine as it and so do Saryn. 

 

Lets trust the devs and give them time to balance out the frames. I think they are working on it quite a lot.

[bakaxy]

Comunities tend to approach every tweak from one point of view, and it's understandable if the player, that was caught in place by moult and forced to fail the mission, came to forums and let it all out in asking to nerf it.

 

It's less understandable, why measures DE deploys scream "nerf" lately, while in the very same update we can see pretty reasonable tweaking.

 

 

The tweaking often happens after they nerfed something into oblivion and the community had time to come up with alternate solutions, which can be implemented easily (like changing some numbers), but we don't see real solutions to problems like solving enemy pathing etc.

 

In my opinion it's a horrible way to tweak the game..

[-Grey-]

Have no Saryn but according to the pals using it we can tell: 

 

while lokis decoy is an aggro taking tanking and situation saving tool (while Loki has no dps tools based on his energy)

the Saryn moult is more likely a self-saving tool (with an option to help pals aswell) to slip out from situations.

 

this and the fact that devs are balancing quite well and often, makes it a necesseary step that shorten the Saryn moult compared to the Loki decoy spell.

 

nuf said. 

[Bulag]

Have no Saryn but according to the pals using it we can tell: 

 

while lokis decoy is an aggro taking tanking and situation saving tool (while Loki has no dps tools based on his energy)

the Saryn moult is more likely a self-saving tool (with an option to help pals aswell) to slip out from situations.

 

this and the fact that devs are balancing quite well and often, makes it a necesseary step that shorten the Saryn moult compared to the Loki decoy spell.

 

nuf said. 

imma half to agree with that... decoy=hologram, moult=skin.. so why shouldn't decoy be able to last longer? i mean should a hologram be able to be beat down?? if anything decoy should be completely time based....

moult still has its advantages compared to decoy.. for example, saryn does not stop to cast moult. for saryn a close to mid. range type (just my opinion of her intended play style) is a great advantage of its own.. im sure it has more pros., just cant think of another at the moment :P

 

If its still not makin sense. think of a common skill thats been in alot of other games past/present, "substitute", almost always described as something to take A HIT in players place. this is how i see moults intended purpose to be.. the fact moult has its own health and shield is being generous.  

[Bulag]

but i do think moult should also be able to shed off debuffs upon use. 

[GTG3000]

Have no Saryn but according to the pals using it we can tell: 

 

while lokis decoy is an aggro taking tanking and situation saving tool (while Loki has no dps tools based on his energy)

the Saryn moult is more likely a self-saving tool (with an option to help pals aswell) to slip out from situations.

 

this and the fact that devs are balancing quite well and often, makes it a necesseary step that shorten the Saryn moult compared to the Loki decoy spell.

 

nuf said. 

 

As much as I hate defence missions, Moult was quite an invaluable tool for me (against corpus, at least). And it was unique. I still think that it would be nice to know that devs are at least aware that this is the problem with pathfinding, rather than the ability.