Running Is Killing The Game*

[Kohira]

We need everywhere lockdown stages wheres we have to clear enemies or challenges all togheter so it wont be 1-2 guys run past mobs to the objective and whoever feels like blasting or slashing some pointless enemies can do so.Makes no sense.

Force everyone to play the way you play? Force everyone to 'feel' like blasting pointless enemies? Sorry, it's you who makes no sense. As people stated above, play private matches with your friends if you want to just kill. Nobody should be forced to kill enemies, especially when the reward is zero or people haven't got the time to sit 30 minutes in a mission.

 

In alerts for example: Some people log in just to do that alert, so they hurry, they 'rush'. Why? Maybe because they want to go back to sleep, maybe because they want to go back to work or studying or cooking or whatever the hell they need to do. Not everyone has the time to play around pointlessly in every mission.

[Canard.WC]

DaveC what you do actually remind me of youtube users promoting their channel on those of others

 

BTW look at my topic

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/38361-stealth-mod/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39818-tenno-of-war/#entry380582

[neKroMancer]

Honestly, there should be a mission specifically made for rusher/completionist. As long as there is no such thing, both parties will bickering each other to no end since hey both hold valid argument.

Mission like Extermination already favors completionist. Rushers, on the other hand, don't have any mission that favor their playstyle. There is no mission with timer from the start and force player to run from point A to point B in order to increase the timer. EXP/Credit/random mod award when player activate console/beacon to increase the timer. Mission like this will favor rushing thus make them play this type of mission more than regular raid/rescue/etc. mission.

As long as the mission type itself favors one playstyle over another, player will choose one that fits his/her play. Giving it variation to make it more exciting would be even better.

[RedEye88]

@DaveC already did m8 already did.

 

I dont understand all the hate,and more over dont understand why you people like to run so much :o

 

I dont have anything to gain from this post,i dont want the game to be my way,the devs can take any ideas and implement in the game their way,the way they feel it fits whatever other plans they have.BUT as long as they DO something.What part of game is too simple and running past stuff became a habbit is hard to understand.

Already stated in 1st post some people will hate this act butthurt cause they  are used now to finish as fast as you can style.I love fast paced games myself but if in order to get that i skip whats most fun of the game id rather go slow mode.

Whats the point of me buying the next new awesome weapon and upgrade it make it fancy and dandy if i will barely use it.

Not only i almost 1 shot everything with my hek thats not a boss,but i can choose to 1 shot while walking or just run past them O_o

 

In most of the games i play i search for that excitement to tackle new challenges/bosses/strategy/teamwork however you want to call it.This mode of 'running past cause we can' kills the fun potential of the game.

 

Ill repeat myself DMC/Vindictus 1 single 1 multi both extremely fun and succesfull with what i suggested.

 

And since words seem they are not enough for some people here you  go:

 

THIS IS MORE FUN:

 

THAN THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjMYDeK2Ck

 

1st video 90% fighting,2nd video 90% running.Theres just nothing to like about  running as a gameplay style its just boring.It should not exist not cause i want so cause logic says so.

As far as i know everyone playes videogames for fun

 

I like both games and i want to keep playing both,but warframe only has potential currently.Hence why we all provide feedback and suggestions yet all i got is hate doh.I lost my hopes.

Edited May 5, 2013 by RedEye88

[BadAimbot]

I think rushing is a legitimate tactic and should be allowed... but rushers and non-rushers can't coexist. Rushing means you don't get Mods, which is probably the most time-consuming thing to collect, and it's the main way of powering up your character, besides leveling which is also missed by rushing, so it's not like it's the superior tactic in the game. If you just want credits and boss drops, or you cbf doing the level properly, then yeah it's good, but overall it's not too great a strategy.

[crow-k]

. Rushers, on the other hand, don't have any mission that favor their playstyle. 

Disagree. Every thing that doesnt require killing every mob supports this. Timer isnt needed and would suck for Frost/Rhino. But anyone can do rushes if they chose.

[kaizoku222]

Disagree. Every thing that doesnt require killing every mob supports this. Timer isnt needed and would suck for Frost/Rhino. But anyone can do rushes if they chose.

 

This. Every map that has an objective, the objective takes priority over farming/clearing. Also, there's stealth which is just as much about avoiding enemies as rushing.

 

If you're trying to debate what is "fun", you're completely wrong to do so, and it's really egocentric to assume your definition of fun is correct to begin with. You already have the tools to play with like minded people, there are 2 person doors, and extraction requires 50%. Honestly, people that are complaining about rushing at this point are just whining. Use chat, get in a clan, play private/solo, play extermination/defense maps, and stop trying to bash other people's play styles. If DE starts catering to that kind of whining the options in the game are going to be reduced making it less interesting for everyone.

[neKroMancer]

Disagree. Every thing that doesnt require killing every mob supports this. Timer isnt needed and would suck for Frost/Rhino. But anyone can do rushes if they chose.

Well, it begins with the question - Why would one rush the mission?

The best answer one rusher can possibly gives you is - it's most economic way to get anything in the game. They 'work' the game, not play it. The only reason that they need to do it with others is farming boss mission. Trying to convince them otherwise is futile since they have their own valid reasons to play the way they like.

Instead of 'enforcing' rusher to play the way the community and DE think as 'should be' played, why not 'urge' them to play mission specific to their playstyle? The game will benefit from better mission varieties and rusher will be playing these missions more - less rusher will appear in online game. Honestly, each mission type should be appropriately labelled - Rush (running take precedence), Teamplay (requires cooperation between teammates), Exterminate (kill everything), Tinker (puzzle/platform play), and Defense mission.

I don't usually rush (well, of you call running because I can't fight 20 enemies at once then I rush a lot). I view 'rusher' as a minor annoyance since we now need at least half of the team to initiate the timer. However, trying to label them as 'bad' isn't exactly the right way to do it since the game can be rushed with almost no mechanic to prevent said action. Admittedly, even if DE implement mission type specific for their need, there will be some of them showing up in other types of mission but it should be lessen anyway.

[Namacyst]

Well, it begins with the question - Why would one rush the mission?

 

 

Page 1 near the end... my post.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Namacyst

[Mietz]

Well, it begins with the question - Why would one rush the mission?

The best answer one rusher can possibly gives you is - it's most economic way to get anything in the game. They 'work' the game, not play it. The only reason that they need to do it with others is farming boss mission. Trying to convince them otherwise is futile since they have their own valid reasons to play the way they like.

Instead of 'enforcing' rusher to play the way the community and DE think as 'should be' played, why not 'urge' them to play mission specific to their playstyle? The game will benefit from better mission varieties and rusher will be playing these missions more - less rusher will appear in online game. Honestly, each mission type should be appropriately labelled - Rush (running take precedence), Teamplay (requires cooperation between teammates), Exterminate (kill everything), Tinker (puzzle/platform play), and Defense mission.

I don't usually rush (well, of you call running because I can't fight 20 enemies at once then I rush a lot). I view 'rusher' as a minor annoyance since we now need at least half of the team to initiate the timer. However, trying to label them as 'bad' isn't exactly the right way to do it since the game can be rushed with almost no mechanic to prevent said action. Admittedly, even if DE implement mission type specific for their need, there will be some of them showing up in other types of mission but it should be lessen anyway.

 

I sometimes rush for fun because the game isn't challenging enough, not for materials (except, Alerts and bosses).

 

I prefer to join a 4 player mission with increased enemy spawns and then rush forward so all the mobs aggro me with no help from my team. Solo missions usually don't provide enough targets to shoot at or be creative with powers and get into some real tension.

 

4 player missions tend to be a complete cakewalk if you stick with your team, everyone being a whirling machine of death your contribution is minimal and you feel less badass and more "eh".

[Kohira]

@DaveC already did m8 already did.

 

I dont understand all the hate,and more over dont understand why you people like to run so much :o

 

I dont have anything to gain from this post,i dont want the game to be my way,the devs can take any ideas and implement in the game their way,the way they feel it fits whatever other plans they have.BUT as long as they DO something.What part of game is too simple and running past stuff became a habbit is hard to understand.

Already stated in 1st post some people will hate this act butthurt cause they  are used now to finish as fast as you can style.I love fast paced games myself but if in order to get that i skip whats most fun of the game id rather go slow mode.

Whats the point of me buying the next new awesome weapon and upgrade it make it fancy and dandy if i will barely use it.

Not only i almost 1 shot everything with my hek thats not a boss,but i can choose to 1 shot while walking or just run past them O_o

 

In most of the games i play i search for that excitement to tackle new challenges/bosses/strategy/teamwork however you want to call it.This mode of 'running past cause we can' kills the fun potential of the game.

 

Ill repeat myself DMC/Vindictus 1 single 1 multi both extremely fun and succesfull with what i suggested.

 

And since words seem they are not enough for some people here you  go:

 

THIS IS MORE FUN:

 

THAN THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjMYDeK2Ck

 

1st video 90% fighting,2nd video 90% running.Theres just nothing to like about  running as a gameplay style its just boring.It should not exist not cause i want so cause logic says so.

As far as i know everyone playes videogames for fun

 

I like both games and i want to keep playing both,but warframe only has potential currently.Hence why we all provide feedback and suggestions yet all i got is hate doh.I lost my hopes.

All the hate? Did you ever see a rusher come on the forum and complain about you taking your time and killing the endlessly spawning enemy? No. You are the one who seems to hate the 'rushers', you are the one who seems to think that the 'rushers' ruin your game. You are the one who attacks the 'rushers' not us. If you look closely to all of our posts, you will see that nobody attacked you or anything that would come as a hate message. We all brought reasonable arguments, and to be honest, you didn't do much.

 

If I was to make a summary of your posts it would be like this: ''I don't understand why can't everyone play the way I do. It's not fun that everyone doesn't plays like me. I would like it if the devs would implement stuff to make everyone else play the way I do.''

 

And, related to those 2 videos you posted:

 

1. The context is different for the 2 videos. In the second video the guy farms! It's not about having fun running, it's about playing in the most productive way possible in order to get the credits. What would be the point to do a 30 minutes mission for 5k credits, when you can do 10 missions in 30 minutes that reward you 5k each.

 

2. In the first video, it's a dungeon. It's scripted, it has bosses and whatever else Vindictus has. In Warframe, you do the same 6 mission types, fight the same enemies, in places that don't look very different than the other 100 missions you've done before. You farm in the exact same way. No place ever looks unique in Warframe, at least, not in the same way the Vindinctus dungeons does.

 

You took 2 gameplay videos of two different games. Needless to say you picked the worst Warframe example for comparison with the Vindictus one.

 

Your arguments are forced and make sense only from the perspective of a really selfish person.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Kohira

[Quetzhal]

The solution to rushing is not to force players to adhere to a certain playstyle (i.e locking down rooms until enemies are cleared.) Doing that will almost certainly kill the game. The solution is to give players more of an incentive to explore every inch of the map and kill every enemy that they find. Discourage rushing, encourage exploration, but people can still rush if they want. Make it so that either method is about equally rewarding , instead of rushing being the fastest and most economic way to do everything. That way, everyone can play however they want. *shrugs*

My opinion, anyhow.

[Aggh]

yeah, I played DMC. sorry I didn't read that part before.

 

right know the only thing you can do is, like what crow said, join to the clan with similar playstyle.

 

or you can have fun by trying to troll the rusher by doing something like mark the floor, bring one of the datamass but don't move, or (if you're the host) abort the mission when at 10 second before extraction and let them feel the unstability of host migration :D (the last one is really effective on extermination mission, because it mean they must do it all over again :D )

That's harrasment/griefing.  Feel free to do that if you want to get your account reported.

[Mietz]

Just make mid-high lvl areas significantly harder.

 

If I can consistently farm Europa with a LVL19 frame and S#&$tily modded weapons, something is wrong.

 

You got to make team-play more of an incentive and solo-rushing in team-missions equal either balls hard or downright suicide.

This would also incentivize more power usage because right now there isn't a point fully utilizing your warframes ability except for the AOE ultimates to clear a room.

[Kohira]

The solution to rushing is not to force players to adhere to a certain playstyle (i.e locking down rooms until enemies are cleared.) Doing that will almost certainly kill the game. The solution is to give players more of an incentive to explore every inch of the map and kill every enemy that they find. Discourage rushing, encourage exploration, but people can still rush if they want. Make it so that either method is about equally rewarding , instead of rushing being the fastest and most economic way to do everything. That way, everyone can play however they want. *shrugs*

My opinion, anyhow.

This is a good idea that it's supported by good arguments. This guy deserves my respect.

 

So, OP, if you come up with ideas that benefit both sides, you will earn my respect. Until then, you're just a selfish player to me.

[DaveC]

Again the poster made it quite clear it wasn't rushing, but ignoring enemies that was concerning him. However, it's deeper than that. Encapsulating all of the very valid comments.

 

1. The point is made everyone has a different play style and people like to play their way(correct)

2. Rushing and farming are legitimate tactics (correct)

3. There should be timer missions (yes)

4. Some people want it to be really easy, others really hard and all the variations in between (correct)

 

Plus many others. I think the issue is what the developers can do to the game to widen it's appeal. It's why we have so many of these threads and why I'm quite bored with the game in it's current format. The developers think we suffer from "shiny ball" syndrome.....so we get new mods, new weapons, new skins etc...I'm not sure this widens the appeal of the game. Many of the suggestions in this and other threads would though. Yes it all has to be done as economically as possible and reusing existing code where possible. I am in favour of widening the appeal and trying to please as many of the people as much of the time as they can.

 

So lets have:

 

1. Difficulty levels selectable by user vote (again because generally it's too easy)

2. Random very tough enemies , mini bosses and a number per level (depending on difficulty), simply buff some of the existing classes.

3. different levels of stalker, to go after high and low level enemies

4. Class/level/rank based difficulty adaptation for maps (one high level player on low level planets, ruins it for the other low level players), with this it will help a bit

5. Standard difficulty levels higher than 5, say 6 7 8 etc.. (because it's just too easy at the moment)

6. System unlocks based on level

7. timer style maps for rushers

8. explore type maps for non rushers (more enemies, but chance of hidden rewards)

9. Exterminate maps with different number of enemies as well as buff level depending on difficulty

10. fixes for the griefing problems with the datamass

11. Some enemies with incapacitation attacks (electrical, gas, stun), where a team mate has to get you up, or you use a large health restore (with variable length for the stun effect depending on difficulty level (e.g. 10 to 60 seconds). Again existing enemies can be used, but skinned in bright yellow, red or green), or perhaps with flashing area in those colours

12 More 2 person doors

 

With all the above, then allocate cash, mods experienced, based on map difficulty and damage done (not player rank/level), so it becomes contribution based.

 

There are many other ideas, but all of it realistically doable within the code they already have without massive additions.This allows players the play style they want. Instead we get given "glass beads", new weapons, new colours, new warframes......give me a break, start coding something into the gameplay mechanics, otherwise a new weapon is just "more of the same" and surely only has limited appeal. Probably my 10 year old son will get exited at trying a new frame or weapon, but I'm pretty sure it will soon get old, even with him, if the gameplay mechanics don't change.

Edited May 5, 2013 by DaveC

[securitywyrm]

Introduce enemies that slow you down and require an ally to help.

 

Corpus: Snagger MOA: Launches an energy net onto a player which slows them down 60%, then deploys a powerful forward-facing shield. Easy for an ally to kill, pain in the &#! for the person snagged to kill.

Infested: Rider. Jumps onto player's back, slowing them down. Has to be shot off by another player.

Infested: Gore dropper: A patch of goo on the ceiling that, if you run underneath it, discharges the goo which dramatically slows you down, locks your melee weapon, and attracts all nearby infested for a time.

Grineer: Large bear trap-like devices in the level which, if you step on, you're stuck moving slowly for awhile.

[Aramahn]

Also, Slow ninjas are boring.

Please take this as the constructive criticism it's meant to be but saying that is no better than somebody campaigning the idea that rushers suck. All of which does nothing but divide a community. Which can quickly turn into a cancer that eats at and just causes further rifts. We all need to remember we're playing the same game and are on the same side in the end.

[Silversray]

I'm pretty flexible so I can do slow or fast run depending on the party. When I feel like to kill everything on my own especially on Kiste, I play private mission. When I feel like joining random, I play online. I suggest that you find a clan that suits your play style. Random party is random and they could care less about how you do the run as long as the objective is completed.

[Rabidbluedeath]

If they lock every area down until you kill everything I will quit playing, it would take away from the game more than it would add (fewer choices on how to play is NEVER a good thing.) I don't rush most of the time, when I do is I usually can't kill the enemies for whatever reason or, lag. Imagine if you were FORCED to play all the way through a lag filled mess of a level every time it happened. Rushing adds a tactical choice, like retreating only you actually finish the mission. The only time i hate rushers is when I'm forced to leave and I wanted to kill everything. The easiest way to do this is just let people leave the second they get to extraction (hold x to activate whatever the name of the ship is called). Then the only way rushers affect other people is more enemies and fewer people to fight them. (not sure how it would work if the host was the rusher, maybe make the host the "squad leader" or something and somewhat justify him not being able to leave until the rest of his team has.)

[VER1]

From what I have seen the primary reason people rush in the AU server anyway is to get more kills than the other person.

Every time I have had less kills than the host, the host will vote for another game.

Every time I have killed more than the host, they immediately disconnect.

 

There are excuses used and some people get highly offended when you ask them why they rush and will only say something like "DEAL WITH IT!".

Both I believe primarily rush to get higher kill stats at end of game than the other person to feel like the bigger man.

 

I know there are a lot of fragile egos and horrible people in general in this game as there have been a few times where someone has called me a  useless f***ing c**t etc etc (aussies like using the C word) because I did not rez them due to not seeing them.

[LazyTemplar]

 

6. System unlocks based on level

11. Some enemies with incapacitation attacks (electrical, gas, stun), where a team mate has to get you up, or you use a large health restore (with variable length for the stun effect depending on difficulty level (e.g. 10 to 60 seconds). Again existing enemies can be used, but skinned in bright yellow, red or green), or perhaps with flashing area in those colours

12 More 2 person doors

 

 

I have to strongly object to those three.  Especially 6 and 11.  Artificial level constraints to force grinding are not enjoyable.  And they got rid of those annoying electro-stun grenade because they were universally hated by players.  Why would you try to bring them back?  

[Belpharon]

I have to admit that I am what you call a completionist in that I really want to get every container and kill every MoB so yeah most of the time the rushing through kinda sucks for me and I am almost always last at the extraction point.

 

However BP boss runs are the exception.  Those, after about the first 5-10 runs, I just want to get over with ASAP because grinding a mission over and over again IS NOT FUN!!!! (Devs are you listening hehe)

 

Another thing about completing everything.  If I am not mistaken, you can't actually clear a map because eventually the MoB respawn, is this correct?

[Baigan]

Locked Down Stages: Defense Missions say "Hi".

[Inez]

So according to the OP, Tenno are genocidal psychopaths who have to kill everything they see?

 

I pictured them as space ninjas, they complete a task quickly and efficiently.  

 

Take out the reactor means take out the reactor, not exterminate the entire Grineer race.