Running Is Killing The Game*

[DaveC]

Inez, on 08 May 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

So according to the OP, Tenno are genocidal psychopaths who have to kill everything they see?

I pictured them as space ninjas, they complete a task quickly and efficiently.

Take out the reactor means take out the reactor, not exterminate the entire Grineer race.

As far as realism and a story goes, you make an excellent point.....just not sure that is what people want in a game.

[Vanadio]

I did my part, upvoting all your post OP, but the world likes it simple. Sort of ipnotic, minimum effort, it likes it this way.

I want a reason like you to fight every mob, but why if I can rush? At the end of the day if I need mods I just run some DUMB defense mission... I do not need to think, I just spam 1 with excalibur... :P

 

I personally prefer the masochist approach to achievements, but I'm classified as a hardcore player.

I'm the one preferring single attributes adjustments as in old rpg (ultima, neocron), no dumb next best gear grinding next-next wow approach.

I'm the minority, so the game industry will not satisfy me 100%

 

Think to what happened to FPS, moved to the plasma/lcd sets in front of our couch rooms...

 

You see developers wasting their time optimizing interface for a console controller, while gimping them to the pc users :)

 

dura lex sed lex.

[DaveC]

I personally prefer the masochist approach to achievements, but I'm classified as a hardcore player.

I'm the one preferring single attributes adjustments as in old rpg (ultima, neocron), no dumb next best gear grinding next-next wow approach.

I'm the minority, so the game industry will not satisfy me 100%

 

Think to what happened to FPS, moved to the plasma/lcd sets in front of our couch rooms...

 

You see developers wasting their time optimizing interface for a console controller, while gimping them to the pc users :)

 

Computer games have been made so easy nowadays they almost play themselves. it seems that the younger gamer wants it easy, with lots of "shiny balls". DE give them a new Warframe, a new colour a new skin a new weapon......ooh yes, that's fantastic. Can we make rollers less annoying, can we make the ancient disruptor less powerful, can we make our abilities more powerful, can we make this weapon even better.

 

My god....at this rate you will only have to look at an enemy to have them explode......this game is not only limited in it's gameplay (for fear of upsetting the kids I think), but it's so, so, easy. I keep wishing for difficulty above level 5, hopefully 6,7,8,9,.....but nothing.

 

Perhaps I am too old for computer games......but I prefer it much harder than this.

[Aramahn]

To sort of paraphrase what was said in today's livestream, I think clans will be the closest thing to a fix we'll see for this issue. The answer is not to limit anyone's playstyle but to give players more avenues for in-game communication and more opportunities to run with other like-minded players.

TL;DR Join a clan that fits your playstyle. BAM! Problem solved.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Aramahn

[securitywyrm]

To sort of paraphrase what was said in today's livestream, I think clans will be the closest thing to a fix we'll see for this issue. The answer is not to limit anyone's playstyle but to give players more avenues for in-game communication and more opportunities to run with other like-minded players.

TL;DR Join a clan that fits your playstyle. BAM! Problem solved.

 

That's basically saying "In random teams, you will have to rush if anyone else decides to rush." It's a prisoner's delima (You all benefit if nobody does it, but if just one person does it then they benefit and nobody else does).

One question I keep asking rushers is "Why are you even playing this multiplayer if you're going to just ignore the rest of your team?"

 

It comes down to this: If you can rush past all the enemies, why even have them? It turns Warframe into Temple Run.

Edited May 9, 2013 by securitywyrm

[Aramahn]

That's basically saying "In random teams, you will have to rush if anyone else decides to rush." It's a prisoner's delima (You all benefit if nobody does it, but if just one person does it then they benefit and nobody else does).

One question I keep asking rushers is "Why are you even playing this multiplayer if you're going to just ignore the rest of your team?"

It comes down to this: If you can rush past all the enemies, why even have them? It turns Warframe into Temple Run.

What I said was directed at rushers too. Meaning they should find a clan to run with fellow rushers. That or just do it solo.

But keep in mind that the problem likely isn't as wide spread as it seems. Rushing can be a relative term. A true rusher decks out their frame for full on sprint, start to finish. Killing at most, the boss, or whatever. There are more than enough examples that just sound like folks going faster than other folks. Not everybody wants to commit genocide of the enemy on every mission.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Aramahn

[Baigan]

That's basically saying "In random teams, you will have to rush if anyone else decides to rush." It's a prisoner's delima (You all benefit if nobody does it, but if just one person does it then they benefit and nobody else does).

One question I keep asking rushers is "Why are you even playing this multiplayer if you're going to just ignore the rest of your team?"

 

It comes down to this: If you can rush past all the enemies, why even have them? It turns Warframe into Temple Run.

 

 

You fail to realize that there is someone behind the control of the rusher. When a rusher joins, he might as well be praying that he is joining a group of people who run a level as fast as he does. The game doesn't lets you create a fresh game if there's an open one, unless you make it private, and the rusher doesn't wants solitude, he wants speed, which in turn you do not offer, but others might.

 

The -dilemma- (not delima) also applies to the other side of the coin. Do you think its fair to force someone to slow down to your pace?

 

Once you acknowledge that you aren't seeing the shades of grey, things might get more in perspective. There isn't only two speeds of play. There isn't a right or wrong way to play. Different people, different objectives. You might want affinity/ resources, others might have maxed loadout, and no use for resources in an assassination run other than what the boss drops.

 

The way you speak of rushers as if the complete opposite would be the person who joins and afks. Ultimately, it is not our place to question another's motives, but to find a way around it, not force people to play the way you perceive as the right one. Ask politely for them to stick with the group (if they don't comply /i their name, and you wont meet em again), play with people you've met and are like minded (unless you preach about groups but don't even bother to make any acquittances), find a clan or ask for pre-mission options; Not stopgaps that hinder another's rights to play as they desire under the allowed ways to play the game.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Baigan

[Aramahn]

You fail to realize that there is someone behind the control of the rusher. When a rusher joins, he might as well be praying that he is joining a group of people who run a level as fast as he does. The game doesn't lets you create a fresh game if there's an open one, unless you make it private, and the rusher doesn't wants solitude, he wants speed, which in turn you do not offer, but others might.

 

The -dilemma- (not delima) also applies to the other side of the coin. Do you think its fair to force someone to slow down to your pace?

 

Once you acknowledge that you aren't seeing the shades of grey, things might get more in perspective. There isn't only two speeds of play. There isn't a right or wrong way to play. Different people, different objectives. You might want affinity/ resources, others might have maxed loadout, and no use for resources in an assassination run other than what the boss drops.

 

The way you speak of rushers as if the complete opposite would be the person who joins and afks. Ultimately, it is not our place to question another's motives, but to find a way around it, not force people to play the way you perceive as the right one. Ask politely for them to stick with the group (if they don't comply /i their name, and you wont meet em again), play with people you've met and are like minded (unless you preach about groups but don't even bother to make any acquittances), find a clan or ask for pre-mission options; Not stopgaps that hinder another's rights to play as they desire under the allowed ways to play the game.

So much truth it hurts! Don't try and fix how others play. It's BETA and therefore still kinda limited on how matchmaking works. Just do the best you can to find those you like to run with.

Now, I'm done beating this horse. It's been dead for days.

[Korevas]

To sort of paraphrase what was said in today's livestream, I think clans will be the closest thing to a fix we'll see for this issue. The answer is not to limit anyone's playstyle but to give players more avenues for in-game communication and more opportunities to run with other like-minded players.

TL;DR Join a clan that fits your playstyle. BAM! Problem solved.

 

This. Lots of the perceived problems we have could be solved by a real lfg system. Personally, I am annoyed as hell by people who feel the urge to explore every nook and cranny, but I don't make threads about it.

[Malora_Sidewinder]

although i do not have this problem thanks largely in part to the fact that i only go solo or play with people i know, i don't see how running through a mission is even remotely profitable. you get more xp, materials, money, and mods by actually playing the level.

 

if you skip everything and exit immediately, you've essentially accomplished nothing.

 

...or am i missing something?

[securitywyrm]

Nobody is saying to force those who enjoy speed-clearing to conform to the speed of the slowest member. What is being requested are obstacles and events that bring the group together as a team.

My current warframe is a Rhino. It's not physically possible for me to keep up with the player in a Volt or a Loki if they're rushers. Often the only thing that lets me catch up is one of the 'requires 2 people to open' doors. What we'd like are things like...

1. A section of building is collapsed and you have to deal a certain amount of damage to get past it.

2. A security door where you can either break down the door, kill all the enemies in the area, or hack 6 terminals in the room.

3. Enemies that can 'catch up' to a speeding warframe, such that a player can't just sprint past every enemy in their way.

4. Enemies that are difficult for one player, but easy for 2 players (Such as one that's heavily armored on the front and always faces one player, or one that is immune to ranged attacks and runs away, thus has to be 'herded' to be killed.

 

If someone desires speed, I fully support methods to encourage the other players to 'speed up.' Just as it's not fun to get left in the dust by someone dashing through the map, it's not fun to be in front only because the other person wants to search for every single piece of loot and doesn't have thieve's wit.

 

Clans are nice, but some folks don't want to join a clan. They just want to hop on the game and start playing, the casuals. I'm a casual. What attracts me to this game is the excellent ratio of wait to play time. World of Warcraft has you 'waiting' for 3x as long as you're actually playing. 

 

My primary concern is that I've seen a lot of F2P MMOs go under from, in my opinion, a lack of mechanics that encourage teamwork. Warframe is not the sort of game that can stand on its own as a single player game, and if other players are just "Bots with players controlling them" instead of "My teammates" then it's a single player game.

[Aramahn]

Like it or not. Clans are what DE is gearing this game towards. This is starting to hint of a "I want my cake and to eat it too" kind of thread. Just sayin'.

[CountLePoof]

I like running. It's fun to be first in a rhino :P

[vieuxchat]

Edit: Fixed the title.

 

Hi all just started play a few missions again and i just cant notice how the runners have gotten even worse.

Nothing new right?

 

I have a suggestion for this that its been used in other games to prevent just that and make us actually fight the mob/enemies and beat some challenges.

If we can run past enemies without dying whats the point of fighting them?if theres no point fighting them theres no point upgrading stuff,if no upgrades why play? It might sound ridiculous but think about it.

 

So here is my suggestion which you could have easily tough of from start now would be a lot harder to implement.

 

Create locked down stages/ares that get locked until the enemies have been cleared,or create some type of minigames like destroy all the cameras,destroy xx number of consoles,hack some pannels for w/e reasons to unlock next area.Just like when a windows gets broken,stage is locked down,mobs shoot at you,your hp is going down and you have to hack pannels to move on and survive.

Hint Devil may cry series or Vindictus sounds familiar?Especially DMC had such a great minigame stages that really made it fun to do a map.

Also you could add miniboses and elite mobs in some stages for us to tackle.

 

As i have said previously game is way to simple.All this run n gun doesnt not offer enough it actually makes the game worse.The game cannot continue to be successfull only like this imo.

 

I know some might be butthurt and disagree cause they cant do every mission in 3 seconds but THINK about it.Do you want to have fun while playing or just run all day in a virtual game with no depth?

 

Please make this game fun,i know you devs look mostly to the very popular threads/suggestions i cant make this suggestion very popular but think about it.I started played since march and this game still has 0% more depth into the gameplay than it had then.Sure it had a lot of patches and fixes,but nothing that would add more gameplay depth and features.Weapons and warframes  are not depth they are just optional different ways of doing the same thing run n gun.

Hopefully someone will listen,take care.

Today, me and 2 other players were able to finish a mission BECAUSE we could skip some fights.

It was against Kril. It was a very tough fight, and after that the run to the extraction was even worse. If we had to kill everything we wouldn't have won that mission.

So, please, no. No forced lockdowns. You can kill almost everything AND run.

Moreover it seems that killing everything isn't possible sometimes : with the grineer, there's always respawn when you come close from a tile. I say "always" because I tried a solo mission on mercury and tried to kill everything. each time I was close to a door, new enemy were spawned. After killing more than a hundred of them (120+ if I remember well) I finished the mission because it was a bit tedious. So, if there's some limit it's pretty high.

Edited May 9, 2013 by vieuxchat

[finaLfrontier]

Didn't read all the posts, but to the OP

 

What exactly are ninjas?

 

I see the point you are trying to make here. But nothing makes me feel more ninja than, when I stealth or wall run past a bunch of enemies, finish the objective, then bounce with hordes of enemies trying to kill me, and me only killing those that get directly in my way. That is so ninja.

 

To me it's a bit unrealistic if I single handedly destroy every enemy at a slow pace (unless its extermination)

 

By all means, if the mission calls for single handedly winning the space wars, then that's what I'll do. If it's to steal a suit case then get the hell out. That's what I'm going to do. Nothing less, nothing more.

Edited May 9, 2013 by finaLfrontier

[Chtulie]

Whatever happens, I hope it won't be lockdowns. There are plenty of kill-room/arena shooters (especially everything that has console origins in it's DNA), but the only other shooter I can think of that has the same momentum/movement as this are the Left 4 Dead games.

Similarly I love how PC gaming this game is about accuracy when aiming down the sights vs shooting from the hip (no real noticeable difference). It's fast, it's constant, it isn't slowed down to be playable with a controller on a screen at the other side of the room.

Ok, that's not fair to stuff like Vanquish or Bulletstorm. It's just that, well, lockdowns, battle arenas, none or a reduced spawning, all that stuff leads to a cover system and other things that make this game like pretty much any other game.

 

Maybe add an enemy type that's capable of keeping up and chasing players down? Or keep a player nailed down until someone comes to help them? The logical punishment for rushers should be being stuck in a bad situation that wouldn't be bad without backup. In Left 4 dead terms, we got sort of boomers in this game (some of the special infected, as it were), and sort of smokers (those grineer teleporters), and kind of tanks (shock moa's), but not only does no faction got all three covered, no faction at all has the equivalent of a hunter, the punishment for those who leave others behind.

[vieuxchat]

(snip)  it isn't slowed down to be playable with a controller on a screen at the other side of the room. (snip)

And it is even highly playable with a controller !

[Andazeus]

I think the game should try to continue the balance between playstyle. Both exploration and running should be valid styles. Different people enjoy different styles and just because you like exploration does not mean you have the right to deprive the runners of their fun as it is the other way around.

 

If you are an explorer and in a team with three people that like to speed run: bad luck for you.

If you are a runner and in a team with three people that want to explore: bad luck again.

 

Your fun is important, but so is the fun of the others. If you play online with randoms, you have to accept compromises and go with the majority it times, even if it means less fun for you. If you do not want that, than play with people that share your style. Finding a clan in the chat or on the forums is not hard and you can play your favorite style all day.

 

Another little tip: if you are an explorer but still want to play online, try playing exterminations, which are much more thorough and slowly by default.

[Law_Abiding_Engineer]

He has a point but I think some people are just taking it the wrong way.  I think their should be some sort of mini-boss, or special class of enemies that randomly spawn and thus have to be built with.  i agree that running through the whole map is a game style, but thats like playing a game for just the absolutle main objectives, and moving on.  Now, with that said, here is where your idea can be seen as flawed.

 

Rushing a map is damn annoying, but the cases where I myself will rush a map, is if its a time based one (so far this game doesn't ahve that, for good reasons, but if such a thing were added), if its a boss fight (since Im just farming the boss and don't care about mods, just BPs), or if Im on  a map which I just want to harvest credits or something.  For those who have weapons that are maxed out, they are ok with rushing the map because its not about the stuff inbetween, as it it about the stuff at the end.

[Crazyon]

I live by a system...

1. Only rush when I need to farm boss mods.

2. Any other mission I kill everything I see....Unless I get overwhelmed.

[TheGlitchy]

If OP is talking about how there isn't incentive to kill enemies, there's already a severe penalty to rushing; Rushers get less exp to warframe and weapons because they haven't killed anything. If you're rushing, you also don't get as many mods and mats. Not to mention, rushing is already quite impossible on hostage rescue missions.

 

Rushing can be explained; maybe rushers really just want a boss drop because they don't need exp/are maxed out on all gear and really just want to build that next warframe/weapon and because they have shoddy luck this is their 110th run, they might just want to move onto the next stage, they might see no point in killing spawn that spawns endlessly, and so on. Irregardless, there are logical reasons to rush, and there are already incentives to not. People should have the ability to choose, and that's what makes this game different; you're not forced to mow down everything.

Someone mentioned Vindi, which I still enjoy playing (DUAL CHAIN VELLA!~), but if I had to make an example, it's like REQUIRING everyone in the run to do the breakoff before the boss can die. There's going to be a *@##$fit backlash from the community and people are not going to enjoy the game as much because they can no longer CHOOSE. That's why you either ask people to do the break or you join a party/guild of friends that does it. Will there always be one person who decides to not cooperate and lands the killing blow while you're trying to aim your spear? Yes, but you'll just have to deal with it because you can't force someone's motives to align with yours; that's just as selfish and inconsiderate.

[Vanadio]

I live by a system...

1. Only rush when I need to farm boss mods.

2. Any other mission I kill everything I see....Unless I get overwhelmed.

 

We share the same system mate.

[Aramahn]

This thread has become a broken record. Two types of players dug in deep and tossing the same opinions back and forth over and over and over.....

And it's going nowhere. Agree to disagree maybe?

[crow-k]

I swore to let this die, but in response to the last comment, if it were just opinions you would be correct. but the OP and others are asking for certain changes, and that is where people get stuck, For most of the playerbase this issue has been addressed and is liveable now, for some, they seem to feel the need to get some more changes in there to support their preferred playstyle.

[BadAimbot]

Mods are the most time-consuming method of powering up your character. You can't farm mods rushing. That should be enough.