Friendly Fire System

[mKta]

Hello,

 

I was thinking, an friendly fire system would be an nice addition to the game. It will add some little difficulty (as the game is way too easy...except high wave defense missions..but even those sometimes with a good team are easy), it will add some tactic and force players to not shoot everywhere they point (ammo conservation and accuracy), and it will add some discipline, realism.

 

We are supposed to be space ninjas not some common marines. We are are supposed to have discipline, accuracy. We are supposed to think where we are aiming and shoot.

 

It becomes annoying when you are sniping (or killing a group of mobs) and some dude goes yolo style in front of you and blocks your targets.

 

I know that there wold be lots of mentally challenged people who will start shooting their team mates "for the lulz", but still it wold be an awesome addition.

 

I also know that people will come and say "it is a sci-fi game THERE IS NO REALISM"...well just for info....sci-fi is inspired by realism and you must have some physics in it. We already have a system that you can shatter your enemy in pieces. It won't be that hard that when you are firing an arrow or bullet that is able to take an ancient 1/4 hp (even more sometimes) and you hit your team mate, to add AT LEAST an little stagger effect if not damage shield/hp. That wold be real.

 

Also to avoid people killing each other, the friendly fire system can damage only the shields and add some stagger on charged hits.

 

Thank you,

Best regards.

 

LE after discussions :

 

- only weapons should have ff system, as powers can kill team mates instantly.  "And there can be lore about it as the warframes are designed to be immune to other warframes powers. But you can't design a warframe to be immune only to your friends bullets/arrows/swords. Maybe with prime ones there can be a discussion, but still..."-quote from my post bellow

 

- lobby side toggleable option. The host should have the option to enable or disable the ff before the mission starts for the entire duration of the mission and for everyone on that lobby. As there are many who are afraid of people killing them only for fun, but if you have a good team you can create organized tactics. Also with the implementation of the evolved clan system, this wold be an nice addition.

Edited May 6, 2013 by mKta

[CloudPies]

O.o this will only bring trolling... they already screwed with switch teleport because players were so mad they were being moved 20 meters. Imagine if they can get hurt...

Edited May 6, 2013 by CloudPies

[mKta]

Someone already said in a different post. This game was NOT created for mentally challenged people. There are lots of them around. But still...

 

And on top of that, I already posted a solution for the trolls.

 

Why no one read the full posts around here?

Edited May 6, 2013 by mKta

[Xoxile]

Would that include powers such aaaasss... Oh.... Sound quake?

[fatalis92]

Someone already said in a different post. This game was NOT created for mentally challenged people. There are lots of them around. But still...

 

And on top of that, I already posted a solution for the trolls.

 

Why no one read the full posts around here?

And completely depleting shields while staggering ( too ) isnt going to hurt the game experiece of anyone, This isnt a solution at all.

Edit: while on topic why would you suggest to implement a sistem that works for actualy HURT people, in game, and then "find" a way to not hurt them with this kind of sistem?

Edited May 6, 2013 by fatalis92

[Tetsmeha]

I'm sorry to tell you this but this is seriously a dumb idea. If there was friendly fire the game wouldn't change at all.

[CloudPies]

Someone already said in a different post. This game was NOT created for mentally challenged people. There are lots of them around. But still...

 

And on top of that, I already posted a solution for the trolls.

 

Why no one read the full posts around here?

 

Its not the mentally challenged that would cause the problem, its the people with sad existences that try to ruin the game for others. 

 

It will only realistically work if its a "toggleable" activity where people can opt into...

[mKta]

Would that include powers such aaaasss... Oh.... Sound quake?

I was talking about weapons. Indeed powers wouldn't be a good idea to be have friendly fire system. And there can be lore about it as the warframes are designed to be immune to other warframes powers. But you can't design a warframe to be immune only to your friends bullets/arrows/swords. Maybe with prime ones there can be a discussion, but still...

 

Friendly fire (on weapons) wold be realistic and lore friendly...

 

 

 

Its not the mentally challenged that would cause the problem, its the people with sad existences that try to ruin the game for others. 

 

It will only realistically work if its a "toggleable" activity where people can opt into...

 

Toggleable sound good too ... though...

 

 

......

 

 

So you are saying that we should not have good/awesome stuff because there are people who can't use their brain? Wel lif that is the case then we should not have anything good at all online or irl. Because there are those type of people EVERYWHERE.

Edited May 6, 2013 by mKta

[Xoxile]

 

Toggleable sound good too ..

I can see it already. In the beginning of every online mission every one is shooting each team mate individually to see who has it on, and then if finding one telling them to get out because they don't want to deal with a liability.

[Tetsmeha]

So you are saying that we should not have good/awesome stuff because there are people who can't use their brain? Wel lif that is the case then we should not have anything good at all online or irl. Because there are those type of people EVERYWHERE.

 

Use your brain for once. There's literally no advantage for having friendly fire in a game like Warframe.

 

Oh, and your opening statement trying to make parallels between realism and the gore system is embarrassingly inane.

[Ashmedai]

Friendly fire in this game would only cause grief and suffering. Period.

 

Nothing good would come of it.

[mKta]

Use your brain for once. There's literally no advantage for having friendly fire in a game like Warframe.

 

Oh, and your opening statement trying to make parallels between realism and the gore system is embarrassingly inane.

Advantages...well it make the game harder and nicer and more real(adds immersion)..

 

About the realism and gore system....well...you can do that irl if you want ...not in one strike though...but still...you can do it :)

 

 

I can see it already. In the beginning of every online mission every one is shooting each team mate individually to see who has it on, and then if finding one telling them to get out because they don't want to deal with a liability.

Toggable before the beginning of the mission, not individual. Lobby side toggable by the host.

Edited May 6, 2013 by mKta

[Xoxile]

Advantages...well it make the game harder and nicer and more real..

 

About the realism and gore system....well...you can do that irl if you want ...not in one strike though...but still...you can do it :)

You should just stop right there. You are talking about a game about space ninjas that fight cloned soldiers, mass produced robots that may or may not turn on their masters and enslave the human race, and some kind of biological experiment gone wrong turning living things into zombie like things. Do NOT relate it to real life.

And now think about the game. Yes FF would make the game harder, but is it making it harder in a good way? Is it fun to get shot in the back by your "team mate" while you were engaging an even greater threat? If you answer yes then you are playing the wrong game.

[mKta]

You should just stop right there. You are talking about a game about space ninjas that fight cloned soldiers, mass produced robots that may or may not turn on their masters and enslave the human race, and some kind of biological experiment gone wrong turning living things into zombie like things. Do NOT relate it to real life.

And now think about the game. Yes FF would make the game harder, but is it making it harder in a good way? Is it fun to get shot in the back by your "team mate" while you were engaging an even greater threat? If you answer yes then you are playing the wrong game.

Like I said in my op. Even if you have mutants, and clone soldiers and other sci-fi stuff, you must have an physics system (and this game want's to have it, for example the body shattering, the hull breaches, rangrolls). You must have a system like ff, or fall damage (here it may be up to discussion as we don't know entirely the lore about the warframes, they may have an system in their suits that removes the fall damage) and other things like that. Common sense things. They didn't say it is an arcade game where go like "physics? what is that?"...they said it is an fast paced action game. Action games have common sense physics(more or less) that don't depend on the lore and also an lore.

 

Ar at least if they don't add ff, to make some good story of how they are able to create intelligent bullets/arrows/melee weapons that are able to detect friendly proxy and not do damage.

 

And yes, it would make it harder in a good way because, as I stated in my op, it will force people to have some discipline, to think where they are aiming, to conserve their ammo, to be a team. To be a true space ninja.

 

In this game atm there is only chaos. Total chaos. Everyone runs where they want. Everyone shoots all the walls. Everyone goes yolo style and die.

 

This may be an only online game, but to think the ocean is dirty because of a few petrol spots...well...I rest my case.

Edited May 6, 2013 by mKta

[SeanDominique]

Even without actual griefing, I wouldn't be looking forward to people who run in and wildly melee everything to start complaining endlessly when you end up shooting them even once. I've already had someone chew me out for not reviving him after he charged a melee boss and got killed, because I was too busy not getting killed by standing in one spot. I can only imagine the mess this will unleash.

 

The main problem is that the average team is too disorganised to handle Friendly Fire properly. When you have a set team, or at least proper communication, you could do it, but in its current incarnation the game is made for mostly mindless fun. If you say that should change, please keep in mind that radically changing target audience can easily kill a game. A lot of options that would make the entire game harder will lose them costumers.

 

What I WOULDN'T mind seeing is basically an equivalent of challenge levels. Areas with greatly increased difficulty, friendly fire and other things that REQUIRE teamwork to overcome, seperate from the rest of the game, but giving high and/or unique rewards.

[Athros]

Just don't.

 

With FF, any AoE skills would made everyone rather go solo. I don't want my Volt killed all my teammates by Overload. Likewise, I don't want my partner's Excal impaled me to the wall.

 

And with these kinds of mobs system (especially Infested) as one of this game's core, adding FF would be very catrastophic.

[mKta]

Even without actual griefing, I wouldn't be looking forward to people who run in and wildly melee everything to start complaining endlessly when you end up shooting them even once. I've already had someone chew me out for not reviving him after he charged a melee boss and got killed, because I was too busy not getting killed by standing in one spot. I can only imagine the mess this will unleash.

 

The main problem is that the average team is too disorganised to handle Friendly Fire properly. When you have a set team, or at least proper communication, you could do it, but in its current incarnation the game is made for mostly mindless fun. If you say that should change, please keep in mind that radically changing target audience can easily kill a game. A lot of options that would make the entire game harder will lose them costumers.

 

What I WOULDN'T mind seeing is basically an equivalent of challenge levels. Areas with greatly increased difficulty, friendly fire and other things that REQUIRE teamwork to overcome, seperate from the rest of the game, but giving high and/or unique rewards.

This is the reason I want ff. To force people to be more of a team.

 

And also because of what you said at the end I already said that this should be an option for the lobby. Like you select the artifacts before you stat a mission with your team, to be able to select ff on/off.

 

 

Just don't.

 

With FF, any AoE skills would made everyone rather go solo. I don't want my Volt killed all my teammates by Overload. Likewise, I don't want my partner's Excal impaled me to the wall.

 

And with these kinds of mobs system (especially Infested) as one of this game's core, adding FF would be very catrastophic.

 

Read all the post please. It was already discussed that only weapons should have ff system. Not the powers. And it is also discussed the reason.

 

 

 

And completely depleting shields while staggering ( too ) isnt going to hurt the game experiece of anyone, This isnt a solution at all.

Edit: while on topic why would you suggest to implement a sistem that works for actualy HURT people, in game, and then "find" a way to not hurt them with this kind of sistem?

 

About the edit...well simply because of beeing aware of the lots of people who are mentally challenged and not give them too much fun, but also keep the game interesting for others. For making of some kind of balance.

Edited May 6, 2013 by mKta

[Tetsmeha]

Advantages...well it make the game harder and nicer and more real(adds immersion)..

 

About the realism and gore system....well...you can do that irl if you want ...not in one strike though...but still...you can do it :)

 

Realism isn't an advantage through game mechanics it's a feature.

[Shinsegui]

I get annoyed when I'm aiming and my team mate decides to walk in front of me too, and I end up hitting him instead and the bullet doesn't hit anything. Srsly.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Shinsegui

[Xoxile]

Like I said in my op. Even if you have mutants, and clone soldiers and other sci-fi stuff, you must have an physics system (and this game want's to have it, for example the body shattering, the hull breaches, rangrolls). You must have a system like ff, or fall damage (here it may be up to discussion as we don't know entirely the lore about the warframes, they may have an system in their suits that removes the fall damage) and other things like that. Common sense things. They didn't say it is an arcade game where go like "physics? what is that?"...they said it is an fast paced action game. Action games have common sense physics(more or less) that don't depend on the lore and also an lore.

 

Ar at least if they don't add ff, to make some good story of how they are able to create intelligent bullets/arrows/melee weapons that are able to detect friendly proxy and not do damage.

 

And yes, it would make it harder in a good way because, as I stated in my op, it will force people to have some discipline, to think where they are aiming, to conserve their ammo, to be a team. To be a true space ninja.

 

In this game atm there is only chaos. Total chaos. Everyone runs where they want. Everyone shoots all the walls. Everyone goes yolo style and die.

 

This may be an only online game, but to think the ocean is dirty because of a few petrol spots...well...I rest my case.

You do not need a system that reflects as much of reality as possible. Fall damage is easy to explain. They are ninjas. As for FF. There is none because it's a video game.

 

It would not force discipline on anyone. It would force people getting frustrated, and leave for a game that has no FF.

[catastrophy]

I liked the realism mode with L4D2 but barely anyone played it. FF should be completely optional. Otherwise it'd be a very bad idea.

[Feldgrep]

Don't add ff. why? Even the guns will easily destroy a Tenno. Here's my proof. Go to Tethys, on Saturn, and solo the boss. Clear the room, and when he cast bullet attractor on you, see how long it takes for you to completely destroy your shields. Then see how long it takes to kill yourself. Me imagine everyone being able to do that. Everyone becomes the stalker

Edited May 6, 2013 by Feldgrep

[SeanDominique]

This is the reason I want ff. To force people to be more of a team.

 

And also because of what you said at the end I already said that this should be an option for the lobby. Like you select the artifacts before you stat a mission with your team, to be able to select ff on/off.

 

If you can turn FF on or off, the point you're making is moot. People who don't want to work together just won't have it on. And even the people who DO want to work together don't have much reason to turn it on.

 

Besides, FF doesn't always make people work together. People who have been playing the game so far will likely keep playing the same way so long as they are not negatively affected. Which means that all the non-team-players ith Gorgons would probably just end up mowing down anyone with FF on, ESSPECIALLY if most of them are counting on people having it OFF and saying that those who have it on, well, that's their problem. They should just stay out or turn it off.

 

There is, simply, little to no merit to this. As an option, it's pointless. If it's forced, it will likely cause a lot of players to leave.

[Feldgrep]

Also, imagine if you get ff killed by accident. Then, you spend the rest of the game, spamming the person that killed you. There's 2 ppl who are no longer helping the mission

[SoanoS]

There is am optional friendly fire system on Killing Floor (another co-op shooter), which made it sometimes awful to play (thanks to grenades and demolition "experts"). There was also a reverse friendly fire, which caused the damage to be reflected back to the shooter.

 

I personally think reverse friendly fire might be an interesting feature. Of course, this would have to be a toggle on/off, and ignore AOE effects.