Will Re-Leveling A Prestige'd Weapon/warframe Gain Mastery?

[TheSteelPhantom]

TL;DR: Let me be clear... I'm fully aware that Mastery rank *currently* means nothing past level 4 to get the Hek shotgun... That being said... I still think there should be a way to level it up without having to level up warframes and weapons that I don't care about/have no interest in playing/already know I don't like.
 

 

Edit, 8 May 2013:

 

It was confirmed by developers that discussion is in the works towards some mechanic that will allow players to "prestige" weapons in order to alter their polarity spots. That is, at rank-30, players will have the option to reset their warframe or weapon to rank-0 in order to change one of its polarity spots. The player then has to re-level that warframe/weapon back to 30, at which point they can prestige it again to alter a different polarity spot. And so on and so forth.

 

 

My Question Now: Will a prestige'd warframe/weapon gain a player Mastery rank as it re-levels to 30?

 

 

My Thought Process: Why do players have to level their mastery solely by leveling Warframes whose play-style they hate, or weapons they can't stand using? I realize the game is in beta. However, for a very large portion of it, I have spent my time leveling 7 warframes and 15+ weapons to rank 30, many/most of which I knew from the get-go that I would never use again upon hitting 30 with them.

 

I rushed the warframe/weapon to 30 solely for the Mastery rank, did not enjoy its play-style, etc. Having played the game this long in beta, I already know what I like and dislike. When the game goes live, should players opt to reset their account, there is currently no method of re-leveling their Mastery without having to re-play the warframes/weapons they already know they dislike playing from beta.

 

 

My Proposal / Solution / Suggestion: Utilize the "prestige" mechanic to accomplish 2 things:

 

• 1. It serves its purpose to itself by allowing players to continue playing the warframes/weapons they enjoy most by letting them become more powerful (changing polarity slots) at a slight cost (having to re-level it back to 30).

• 2. Let the prestige mechanic continue to gain the player Mastery rank, as they are further "mastering" that warframe/weapon.

 

From a play-time perspective, it doesn't matter whether a player is grinding out another warframe/weapon, or grinding out the prestige'd warframe/weapon. The only difference, currently, is that continuing to play a warframe/weapon that is already 30 (or prestige'd, once the mechanic is implemented), gains a player nothing towards their Mastery rank, despite investing the same amount of time and effort into the game as another player who is just rushing everything he can to 30.

 

I am certainly not saying to get rid of all warframes/weapons contributing to Mastery rank as you play/rush them to 30. I'm just suggesting/proposing to let me contribute to my Mastery by other means as well. There's more to showing my experience in a game (what Mastery does) than rushing frames and weapons to 30 just for points.

 

 

Thoughts? Flames? Concurs? Disagreements?

Edited May 11, 2013 by TheSteelPhantom

[Aggh]

+1 The mastery system's emphasis on using as many different weapons as possible has always kind of annoyed me.  People shouldn't be forced into using weapons/frames they aren't interested in to continue progressing.  The only reason that it isn't an issue right now is because the ranking system doesn't mean much.

 

The prestige system that the devs mentioned (releveling a weapon/frame in order change the polarity of its slot) could play into this.

 

There should be other ways though.  Weapon specific challenges, events, alerts that grant mastery etc. etc.

 

edit: ninja'd :|

Edited May 6, 2013 by Aggh

[MetalGerbil]

if your only concern is playing what you like, you have basically said "i dont care about mastery" as it is the only thing it really represents.

 

so why bother? its a thing that tracks how many frames and weps you have leveled so.... dont care dont level?

 

im not trying to seem mean. just that my point is why not ask for something other than mastery as a way to track progress. like a missions completed "mastery" or something.

 

its a thing in the game that does something specific. if you add to that, even slowly, its not really doing its job anymore.

[Cruispleuro]

I think the whole point of mastery is that you learn to play with different playstyles and therefore "master" the game, so to me it kinda makes sense that we have to use different weapons/warframes that don't necessarily suit our specific styles.

[Aggh]

if your only concern is playing what you like, you have basically said "i dont care about mastery" as it is the only thing it really represents.

 

so why bother? its a thing that tracks how many frames and weps you have leveled so.... dont care dont level?

 

im not trying to seem mean. just that my point is why not ask for something other than mastery as a way to track progress. like a missions completed "mastery" or something.

 

its a thing in the game that does something specific. if you add to that, even slowly, its not really doing its job anymore.

Because it's not going to stay that way.  More unlocks and rewards are going to be added so the mastery system is going to need to be fleshed out to more than just leveling up as many weapons/frames as possible to rank up.  Most players won't want to use weapons/frames they aren't interested in to do this.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Aggh

[ArcSynder]

I actually like the incentive to play with weapons and frames that I don't like as much. With that being said though, there also needs to be some benefit to playing with a maxed weapon/frame. 

[TheSteelPhantom]

if your only concern is playing what you like, you have basically said "i dont care about mastery" as it is the only thing it really represents.

 

so why bother? its a thing that tracks how many frames and weps you have leveled so.... dont care dont level?

 

im not trying to seem mean. just that my point is why not ask for something other than mastery as a way to track progress. like a missions completed "mastery" or something.

 

its a thing in the game that does something specific. if you add to that, even slowly, its not really doing its job anymore.

 

Because the fact that it's a stat that exists to level up makes me care, lol. I want to level it up, even if it means playing stuff I won't touch again once it hits 30. This has been the case for my Mag, Ember, Frost, and Ash, and TONS of weapons thus far. If the system truly means nothing, they why have it at all? It could just as easily track my gameplay progress, time spent playing, experience, etc, by letting me continue leveling it by playing what I enjoy the most. Especially if the prestige'ing idea were to be implemented in any way.

 

 

I actually like the incentive to play with weapons and frames that I don't like as much. With that being said though, there also needs to be some benefit to playing with a maxed weapon/frame. 

 

 

^ This, for sure. Another reason the prestige'ing idea would be a great implementation.

Edited May 6, 2013 by TheSteelPhantom

[mKta]

The only use I see for mastery rank right now is for DE to make money. I know it sound mean but this is the case. It is well know that many people want to be high rank in everything so in order to be have a high mastery rank you must level up many warframes. But you only have 2 slots for warframe and a few weapon slots. So in order to rank up you need more warframes and more weapons. But you need slots. So here you go ...

Indeed you can delete you warframes and weapons...but I don't know how many, after putting so many hours into them want to delete them.

Edited May 6, 2013 by mKta

[Gidion]

if your only concern is playing what you like, you have basically said "i dont care about mastery" as it is the only thing it really represents.

 

so why bother? its a thing that tracks how many frames and weps you have leveled so.... dont care dont level?

 

im not trying to seem mean. just that my point is why not ask for something other than mastery as a way to track progress. like a missions completed "mastery" or something.

 

its a thing in the game that does something specific. if you add to that, even slowly, its not really doing its job anymore.

I agree with this statement. If you are worried about not looking like a master, because you only want to get to Hek. Or play one frame... so be it. This isn't the time sink stat for you. And I am not opposed to other factors being tracked for progression: missions completed, content unlocked, what have you.

[Gaiters]

On the one hand I don't care, but on the other-hand I'm one of those guys who has leveled almost every weapon, and the thing is you don't know if it's good or not unless you try it - and I mean try it at it's full potential. 

Giving mastery away from kills are some other farmable aspect just makes it into another XP system, and if they make it an xp system they might as well make it an overall earned xp system. 

As it is it's unique and interesting, making it farmable wouldn't help anything imo. 

[MetalGerbil]

Because it's not going to stay that way.  More unlocks and rewards are going to be added so the mastery system is going to need to be fleshed out to more than just leveling up as many weapons/frames as possible to rank up.  Most players won't want to use weapons/frames they aren't interested in to do this.

 

more stuff just means its going to be harder to "max" and thats fine.

 

think of it this way.

 

you are trying to participate in a bicycle race by running it. sure you arent going to be winning any medals or win the race but thats not the point. its a bicycle race. if you dont wanna do that then you shouldnt be involved.

 

mastery rank is about lvling weps and warframes. if you have no interest in that then why do you want it? you want to make it do other things because you want a number next to your avatar?  it doesnt mean anything and i highly suspect they arent going to add any weps or frames that use 4+ mastery. nobody would want to bother as it would be a hassle.

 

thats it for me on this one. off i go to talk some officials into letting me enter a rifle marksmanship competition with my bow and arrow.

[Aggh]

more stuff just means its going to be harder to "max" and thats fine.

 

think of it this way.

 

you are trying to participate in a bicycle race by running it. sure you arent going to be winning any medals or win the race but thats not the point. its a bicycle race. if you dont wanna do that then you shouldnt be involved.

 

mastery rank is about lvling weps and warframes. if you have no interest in that then why do you want it? you want to make it do other things because you want a number next to your avatar?  it doesnt mean anything and i highly suspect they arent going to add any weps or frames that use 4+ mastery. nobody would want to bother as it would be a hassle.

 

thats it for me on this one. off i go to talk some officials into letting me enter a rifle marksmanship competition with my bow and arrow.

 

The ranking system isn't a contest, it's a progression system.  Progression systems should do their best to not try and force players to play the game in a specific manner or people will just stagnate and/or lose interest.  That is counter productive since the whole point of a progression system is to keep people interested and playing.

 

Additionally, the devs have said they're going to add more (ex they've talked about having slots be a reward at some ranks) to the ranking system.  The fact that you think that unlocks at higher ranks would be a hassle illustrates the problem with the mastery system.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Aggh

[Gaiters]

^ having to use other weapons isn't a 'style' of play. If they only gave mastery for guns and not swords that would be a way to make players lose interest. In fact the mastery system as it is, is the only thing to keep players interested in getting multiple weapons. 

[Br0k3nSaint]

I think this is a great idea.  I hate the fact I need to level up frames/weapons I hate to use.  If I could play with the setup I like I would find the game even more fun then it is now.

[Aggh]

^ having to use other weapons isn't a 'style' of play. If they only gave mastery for guns and not swords that would be a way to make players lose interest. In fact the mastery system as it is, is the only thing to keep players interested in getting multiple weapons. 

No, it forces them to use multiple weapons, whether they're actually interested in getting other weapons is a matter of preference.

 

 

I'll never be interested in the snipertron, heat dagger,afuris,furis, dual skana, ankyros, fragor, bo, sicarus,  kraken, lex, boar, lato, aklato, dark dagger, braton, and multiple other weapons that will come out.  But with the current way that the rank up system works, I'll have to level them regardless of that fact in order to keep on ranking up.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Aggh

[Br0k3nSaint]

I think the whole point of mastery is that you learn to play with different playstyles and therefore "master" the game, so to me it kinda makes sense that we have to use different weapons/warframes that don't necessarily suit our specific styles.

Well if the point of the mastery system is to show other players you have played multiple frames and leveled different weapons then let it just do that.  Why should having this mastery system unlock items in the game if its just to show off how many different items you leveled?

[Boxyninja]

.

mastery rank is about lvling weps and warframes. if you have no interest in that then why do you want it? you want to make it do other things because you want a number next to your avatar?  it doesnt mean anything and i highly suspect they arent going to add any weps or frames that use 4+ mastery. nobody would want to bother as it would be a hassle.

because u have to get mastery to get more weapons. as OP said if he was going to take the reset and onlt get the guns he wanted then he couldn't progress without getting weapons/warframes he didnt like. i could see challenges adding to mastery maybe 50-100 for each one completed depending on how hard it is to finish

[TheSteelPhantom]

Well if the point of the mastery system is to show other players you have played multiple frames and leveled different weapons then let it just do that.  Why should having this mastery system unlock items in the game if its just to show off how many different items you leveled?

 

 

^ This. Instead of a progress bar ranking you up, why not just have a static display that says something like "This guy played Frost for 15 hours, Mag for 20 hours, Nyx for 50 hours, etc". Why the levels? Why the requirement to earn levels to get other items that will in turn be used for more levels?

 

Don't get me wrong here at all; I like the system as levels and progression. I just don't think "progression" should be so narrow as how many Warframes and weapons I've maxed to 30. Arguably, playing 1 Warframe + 1 set of weapons for 100+ hours would make me a FAR better and experienced player at my frame/load-out than someone who jumps between Warframes and weapons just to rush them to 30 for the mastery.

 

The constant jumping around between frames may make them have more broad experience, but they lack the... mastery, if you will... in any one particular play-style or weapon load-out, having never played it for long.

 

In short... showing my experience, through the same mastery rank system currently in place, by letting me play the same thing I actually like and contribute to the mastery, could arguably give others a much better insight to my experience than someone who just rushes 30s.

 

 

having to use other weapons isn't a 'style' of play. If they only gave mastery for guns and not swords that would be a way to make players lose interest. In fact the mastery system as it is, is the only thing to keep players interested in getting multiple weapons. 

 

No. As someone else pointed out, there's a huge difference between being interested in leveling a particular Warframe or weapon, and having to level it to gain mastery ranks despite wanting to play what you already know you enjoy.

 

As I said in my original post: The only thing currently keeping me from using that optional reset button is the fact that by this point, rank 6, having leveled 7 Warframes to 30, and 15-ish weapons to 30... I know what I like and what I can't stand. I know what I'm good at, and how I want to play. What's holding me back from hitting that button is the fact that in order to get my rank back, currently, I would have to repeat playing all the crap I don't like. This should be changed. How it's changed isn't up to me; I just offered up suggestions.

 

A tiny bit of rank from kills, or in-game challenges, or successfully completing missions above level 30, or letting me prestige the Warframes/weapons I do like, etc... are all perfectly reasonable considerations, IMO... again, as much as I hate Call of Duty for it, this is an excellent method of extending play and showing experience, while letting someone play what, and how, they want.

[CaptGentlemen]

Isn't the benefit of using a maxed out weapon or frame being able to slot more mods due to having more mod points? If you don't see this being in anyway a benefit then you should just use weapons and frames with no mods at all solo on Xini. The idea of how Mastery Rank is leveled at the moment is really nice to be honest it really doesn't take much work at all to raise you're mastery rank if you aren't lazy to try out new frames and weapons. Although a "prestige" type of leveling for weapons and warframes does sound nice it doesn't give you that feeling that you should try out something new. The mastery rank at the moment is great way to show that people have been playing with new weapons and frames which can give other players the chance to maybe ask someone with a higher rank if they tried out a frame or weapon they've been interested in and how it works out. From what the DE has explained what they want mastery rank to show to other plays as being is pretty well done for the time being and works.

[TheSteelPhantom]

The idea of how Mastery Rank is leveled at the moment is really nice to be honest it really doesn't take much work at all to raise you're mastery rank if you aren't lazy to try out new frames and weapons. 

 

Which is all fine and dandy, but... I'm not lazy, and I already have tried out half the Warframes and tons of weapons. I know what I like now. I shouldn't have to "try it all out" a second time just to get back to where I am now. It's not trying-it-out at that point. It's repetitive. Especially when I'll never play those Warframes or weapons again once capping them at 30.

 

Example? I have zero interest in the Twin Vipers. Hated them. But I got them to 30 for my rank, and to experience them, etc. Still hate them. But if I hit the reset button... as it stands... I'll have to level them AGAIN to get the same mastery out of them to get back my rank? This doesn't seem... boring? I'd rather play the weapons that I KNOW I like, from the get-go, and build my rank that way. Even if it's slower; it's something.

 

As it stands, I won't be using the reset button for this sole reason. I know for a fact that some others feel the same way, just because they have gained so much mastery rank and it's there to show off.

Edited May 7, 2013 by TheSteelPhantom

[CaptGentlemen]

Which is all fine and dandy, but... I'm not lazy, and I already have tried out half the Warframes and tons of weapons. I know what I like now. I shouldn't have to "try it all out" a second time just to get back to where I am now. It's not trying-it-out at that point. It's repetitive. Especially when I'll never play those Warframes or weapons again once capping them at 30.

 

Example? I have zero interest in the Twin Vipers. Hated them. But I got them to 30 for my rank, and to experience them, etc. Still hate them. But if I hit the reset button... as it stands... I'll have to level them AGAIN to get the same mastery out of them to get back my rank? This doesn't seem... boring? I'd rather play the weapons that I KNOW I like, from the get-go, and build my rank that way. Even if it's slower; it's something.

 

As it stands, I won't be using the reset button for this sole reason. I know for a fact that some others feel the same way, just because they have gained so much mastery rank and it's there to show off.

That's fine but at where the game is more frames and weapons are more than likely to be added to game in order to increase mastery rank if you are that impatient to increase a rank to just show off then you are going to have to go through some repetitive things that you may not like. Trying out and maxing out weapons and warframes are two totally different things aswell from what I can see having around 6 maxed frames and 8 maxed out weapons can get you to rank 5 pretty easily. As stated though this game is still in early stages and more weapons and warframes are obviously planned to be released which should help raising mastery ranks become easier. A mastery rank should be based on exactly what its called Mastery which from my point of view should show mastery across a wide range of weapons and frames not just maxing out one or two frames or weapons over and over again. The mastery rank progression may change in the future it may not but I think the way the mastery works is a great idea at the moment but just like everything else in the game can be worked on I just don't see what could make it better not what could make it easier.

[Judopunch]

Splitting the difference, the time sink and grind mechanic could be incorporated into leveling up weapons and suites further after max ranked. Something like an 'experience' item (much like potatoing) that would keep you able to gain experience on a weapon or frame after 30, but would need to be crafted and consumed. This would create both the time and item sink for progression but allow further development and customization. After the item is filled with XP you then gain a polarity slot or additional mod slot for your trouble.

 

A second option is just to have weapons and frame's continue to gain 'levels' even after it caps at 30. The hidden system would continue to need more and more experience (30-31, 31-32) as they do now, but it could go towards leveling your account. This would encourage buying new weapons because you could level your account faster, it takes less xp to lvl from 1-5 than it does to lvl 29-30, but not punish people as much for using their favorite load-out.

[Judopunch]

That's fine but at where the game is more frames and weapons are more than likely to be added to game in order to increase mastery rank if you are that impatient to increase a rank to just show off then you are going to have to go through some repetitive things that you may not like. Trying out and maxing out weapons and warframes are two totally different things aswell from what I can see having around 6 maxed frames and 8 maxed out weapons can get you to rank 5 pretty easily. As stated though this game is still in early stages and more weapons and warframes are obviously planned to be released which should help raising mastery ranks become easier. A mastery rank should be based on exactly what its called Mastery which from my point of view should show mastery across a wide range of weapons and frames not just maxing out one or two frames or weapons over and over again. The mastery rank progression may change in the future it may not but I think the way the mastery works is a great idea at the moment but just like everything else in the game can be worked on I just don't see what could make it better not what could make it easier.

Why do you assume you must master many tools, instead of master only one. Jack of all trades is master of none. Now with that rhyme, my post is done.

 

 

Maybe not, this is kind of fun.

 

At least this is better than a pun.

 

Ok id better run....

[TheSteelPhantom]

@ CaptGentlemen: Your view of what Mastery is, is the exact opposite of its definition. Remember the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none"? Leveling many frames and weapons to 30 makes you a jack of all trades. You're a master at none of them. Playing 1-2 frames and a select few weapons for a very long time is what makes you the master at that frame and those weapons.

 

That being said, again, I'm not advocating in any way that the current system go away or not allow mastery gain from multiple frames/weapons leveling up. I'm just saying... if I choose to become a MASTER at the select few frames I choose to play, I should benefit mastery-wise from it the same as someone who's becoming a jack of all.

 

Edit: Ninja'd on the "jack of all trades" thing. :P Good to know someone else sees that line of thought though, too.

Edited May 7, 2013 by TheSteelPhantom

[Mietz]

Why do you assume you must master many tools, instead of master only one. Jack of all trades is master of none. Now with that rhyme, my post is done.

 

 

Maybe not, this is kind of fun.

 

At least this is better than a pun.

 

Ok id better run....

 

 

@ CaptGentlemen: Your view of what Mastery is, is the exact opposite of its definition. Remember the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none"? Leveling many frames and weapons to 30 makes you a jack of all trades. You're a master at none of them. Playing 1-2 frames and a select few weapons for a very long time is what makes you the master at that frame and those weapons.

 

That being said, again, I'm not advocating in any way that the current system go away or not allow mastery gain from multiple frames/weapons leveling up. I'm just saying... if I choose to become a MASTER at the select few frames I choose to play, I should benefit mastery-wise from it the same as someone who's becoming a jack of all.

 

Edit: Ninja'd on the "jack of all trades" thing. :P Good to know someone else sees that line of thought though, too.

 

The Mastery Rank is not a measure if you are a "master".

 

It measures your proficiency and experience with all weapons, your mastery of the way of the Tenno.

 

The Tenno can be a specialist in one kind of warfare, yet he needs to master all ways or he can never claim mastery at all. You must first learn how to walk before you can run.

 

The Tenno are awakening from a long slumber, their memories faded and gone, they need to master all aspects of their selves again.