Berserker And Melee Weapon Speed Differences

[Racercowboy]

Something has always bothered me about the Berseker mod. You see, we have all these melee weapons all with different characteristics. Some are slow but have a long reach and deal high damage, some fast with short reach and lesser damage, some well balanced ones, some critical happy ones, some status happy ones. While some are stronger than others, I must bring up the advantage that Berserker gives to critical-heavy weapons, especially slow ones: outrageous attack speed at a level that you cannot even come anywhere near halfway through mods.

 

When melee 2.0 came out, the fury mod was heavily nerfed. Berserker, however, remained completely untouched and still gives 90% attack speed at max rank. This has made a HUGE relative speed gap between weapons that can reliably set off Berserker and those that cannot. This is more apparent with high-crit heavy weapons like Scindo Prime and Jat Kittage who's downside is supposed to be slow attack speed. Weapons that can have the advantage of using Spoiled Strike and barely feel the negative effects of it. Speed is important with Melee since you don't want to be stuck in the animations, and the faster you do them, the less time you are vulnerable.

 

Because of this, I have a proposal: Buff Fury to it's original 60 % attack speed, and nerf Berserker to give a flat 20% per stack, 60% with all three. You'll get 120% total for using both, but the critical melee weapons will not far and away leave behind everything else in the speed department, since they already do in damage anyway.

 

EDIT: saw a topic explaining how beresker actually gives 75% attack speed. Changed proposal accordingly

Edited March 1, 2015 by Racercowboy

[Jahadaya]

No. Well, no for the nerf to Berserker. I don't even use Berserker, but even I see that this would completely make it useless. Fury should definitely be buffed back to 60%, you're right on that - but if that happens, Berserker should still be kept at 90% (or 75% according to what some people are saying).

[Racercowboy]

No. Well, no for the nerf to Berserker. I don't even use Berserker, but even I see that this would completely make it useless. Fury should definitely be buffed back to 60%, you're right on that - but if that happens, Berserker should still be kept at 90% (or 75% according to what some people are saying).

 

I think Berserker it would be fine at 75% or 90% (or whatever it is rofl) if critical weapons did not blow everything else out of the water by default. Ideally it'd be better to just fix that problem I suppose, but as long as it remains like this I fear Berserker may need a slight, not big, nerf. I'm just looking in the scope that people will use both mods together. Also, if berserker remains like it is and Fury gets buffed, you can still use Berserker alone to achieve a higher attack speed than Fury would provide and while the difference in speed would be smaller, the gap would still be there. The idea here is to help level the playing field and have more consistency.

[Jahadaya]

I think Berserker it would be fine at 75% or 90% (or whatever it is rofl) if critical weapons did not blow everything else out of the water by default. Ideally it'd be better to just fix that problem I suppose, but as long as it remains like this I fear Berserker may need a slight, not big, nerf. I'm just looking in the scope that people will use both mods together. Also, if berserker remains like it is and Fury gets buffed, you can still use Berserker alone to achieve a higher attack speed than Fury would provide and while the difference in speed would be smaller, the gap would still be there. The idea here is to help level the playing field and have more consistency.

True, I get what you mean. I was just thinking in the sense that this would make Berserker essentially a worse Fury, which would make nobody use it (unless they spend two slots using both of them... which, you know, people aren't willing to give up two slots :3)

[Racercowboy]

True, I get what you mean. I was just thinking in the sense that this would make Berserker essentially a worse Fury, which would make nobody use it (unless they spend two slots using both of them... which, you know, people aren't willing to give up two slots :3)

Give up two slots for speed? THIS IS MADNESS!!!! <----- majority of people lol.

 

I was too concerned about making Berserker a lesser Fury. Hopefully they actually balance weapons so this (and many other posts in the feedback sections) become a non issue. Maybe if Berserker had a different function, like increasing critical strike chance with higher combo counts by a flat amount per stack, with a cap of course.

[Richgar]

I think DE intentionally did it that way because they believe melee is about critical damage and heavy weapons. If you look at valkyr's ult, it only scales off high damage and huge critical weapons, and is only affected by damage and critical mods. There's no scaling for status, range, or speed. Scindo Prime and Jat Kittag are really good for valkyr. Probably same reason why daggers have 1200% stealth multiplier, the lowest, and hammers have 2400%. They don't look at melee weapons as being versatile or multi-use it seems.

[Vargras]

I want to say Fury was nerfed for the sake of combos (so you wouldn't accidentally skip over steps when trying to perform certain combos). Doesn't explain why Berserker wasn't slowed down, though. Still, I see no point in nerfing Berserker -- it's really only valuable on those weapons with a decent crit chance, whereas Fury remains valuable on all weapons.

[Racercowboy]

I think DE intentionally did it that way because they believe melee is about critical damage and heavy weapons. If you look at valkyr's ult, it only scales off high damage and huge critical weapons, and is only affected by damage and critical mods. There's no scaling for status, range, or speed. Scindo Prime and Jat Kittag are really good for valkyr. Probably same reason why daggers have 1200% stealth multiplier, the lowest, and hammers have 2400%. They don't look at melee weapons as being versatile or multi-use it seems.

Valkyr's case is just valkyr though, there's many more warframes that lean more toward melee than ranged styles. It's just that high crit weapons, especially heavy ones, can do everything from lightning speed assassinations to clearing out crowds with sheer power. On the other hand non crit weapons struggle to even begin to compete, and then there's a mod that just flat out denies any speed advantage they may have had before. At this rate, is it even a choice anymore? Only an idiot, or someone who does not yet have access to, would not take a crit melee over a non crit one, especially since most crit melees also come with very high status chances. I'm just wishing something is done about this for the sake of variety of good and sensible choices.

 

 

I want to say Fury was nerfed for the sake of combos (so you wouldn't accidentally skip over steps when trying to perform certain combos). Doesn't explain why Berserker wasn't slowed down, though. Still, I see no point in nerfing Berserker -- it's really only valuable on those weapons with a decent crit chance, whereas Fury remains valuable on all weapons.

I wanted to think the same thing initially, but them one must ask, "If having a maxed Fury was that much of a problem for the player, would they not just make a non maxed fury adjusted to a level their liking?" There are a lot of times where I wish the attack speed was faster because some of the animations are long and you can't cancel out of them.

 

If we leave Berserker as it is, it hopefully means something was done to not make critical melee so dominant over everything else. I mean, if there was a clear tiering system and the higher weapons had higher critical chances it'd be one thing, but that is not the case. Right now, without causing massive rage or more power creep slightly nerfing Berserker (not major, of course we don't want another Fury case here) or changing it to be based off of the combo counter instead so anything can take good advantage of it seems to be a safe route.