Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing: Infinite Melee Slide Attack

[cyclopsbob]

i found this highly amusing. wave dashing jsut laughs at my maxed stamina and rush mods

[cknives]

I think they should put a little CD on it like 0.5 seconds or something to prevent macroing. But thats it. Even the devs use it (live stream 7) so i seriously doubt they would remove it. Its awesome and adds greatly to the fun of warframe.

[Bakim0n0]

i found this highly amusing. wave dashing jsut laughs at my maxed stamina and rush mods

That's not wave dashing...

[Aggh]

Loling at people that think this makes running obsolete. Running offers you a lot more control over your movement and is better  for traversing rooms going target to target, slide melee spam and jump slide melee just offer better long range mobility.  Slide attacks will become mostly useless if you get rid of the movement distance that makes using it so effective for faster map traversal too.

 

Also, the fact that it is mostly only doable with a handful of weapons (ie high rof melee weapons) is a good thing.  It gives them flavor and provides a reason to use a melee weapon other than scindo/gram.

 

 

i found this highly amusing. wave dashing jsut laughs at my maxed stamina and rush mods

Except that spamming slide attacks on heavy melee weapons is slower than sprinting because of the pause in the slide attack animation and the slower attack animation in general.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Aggh

[Excitonex]

Loling at people that think this makes running obsolete. Running offers you a lot more control over your movement and is better  for traversing rooms, slide melee spam and jump slide melee just offer better long range mobility.  Slide attacks will become mostly useless if you get rid of the movement distance that makes using it so effective for faster map traversal too.

 

Also. the fact that it is mostly on doable with a handful of weapons (ie high rof melee weapons) is a good thing.  It gives them flavor and provides a reason to use a melee weapon other than scindo/gram.

This is how I feel. I've never used the Scindo because I'm not a fan of charge attacks. If weapons didn't allow me to travel faster why would I equip anything other than the Ether Blades?

[hiryu64]

So I witnessed both Bakim0n0 and Brasten perform this. I'm at a complete loss for words. It seems that there were multiple ways to perform this, and the method I used was patched out. I'm really not sure whether to be upset or just laugh at the cosmic irony of the situation.

[cyclopsbob]

That's not wave dashing...

i know i found the video funny but wave dash with light weaps laughs at my mods cause it just launches you further than i can run i shuolda made that a new line Edited June 7, 2013 by cyclopsbob

[SnokyoDrift]

I don't think anyone will argue with you that techniques for slower frames to keep up shouldnt be removed.

 

However here we're talking about even the slowest frames easil speeding by fast frames with the speed mods because of this exploit.

 

Yesterday I was using excalibur on Saturn with maxed out rush mod, and a frost literally goes flying by me because he's using this technique.

 

Call it what you will, exploit, glitch, emergent gameplay, unicorn rainbows, w/e. There's something wrong with that. 

 

"Someone did something more complicated than just holding down a button and now he's better/stronger/faster than me with all my best equipment"

It's been heard time and time again.

 

 

I think that an active, hands on method of movement should always be faster than a dumb-as-bricks passive one. The current system has the magnitude of the effect about right, but is quite simple to execute and is too repetitive. When they introduce melee combos, chaining together 6-8 of them should be the best method of moving around, and then this knifejacking can die.

 

As it stands, the movement system between frames is pathetically undeveloped. There's no reason why speed differences should even exist in a co-op game, and any attempts to overcome this imbalance should not be subverted.

 

The current implementation gives control to players who are willing to sacrifice a combat efficient melee weapon in order to open up an active system of speed control. While I believe that its skill:reward ratio is too low, its effectiveness is a vital part of the game's movement system that allows slower frames to keep up with any idiot who's equipped the trifecta of sprinting and mastered the skill of holding shift.

 

Taking away control from a player and forcing them to be passive is never going to be fun or skillful.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Tryysaeder

[kinghouse_51]

It makes running obsolete. That's simply not intended.

Wall running and free running were all encouraged by the developers to increase speed, but spinning around like a top, honestly isn't.

But all them GunZ elitists insist that it's "emergent" gameplay.

I've yet to see a firm dev stance on this.

it may be emergent game play but it doesnt mean its the right way to play the game :P plus if all they have to do is endlessly spin attack what is the point of guns in the game in the first place

Edited June 7, 2013 by kinghouse_51

[makdonalds]

actually i quite like slash dash + if u wanna do it more efficiently u should use a stamina regen mod and it all fits

[Bakim0n0]

"Someone did something more complicated than just holding down a button and now he's better/stronger/faster than me with all my best equipment"

It's been heard time and time again.

 

 

I think that an active, hands on method of movement should always be faster than a dumb-as-bricks passive one. The current system has the magnitude of the effect about right, but is quite simple to execute and is too repetitive. When they introduce melee combos, chaining together 6-8 of them should be the best method of moving around, and then this knifejacking can die.

 

As it stands, the movement system between frames is pathetically undeveloped. There's no reason why speed differences should even exist in a co-op game, and any attempts to overcome this imbalance should not be subverted.

 

The current implementation gives control to players who are willing to sacrifice a combat efficient melee weapon in order to open up an active system of speed control. While I believe that its skill:reward ratio is too low, its effectiveness is a vital part of the game's movement system that allows slower frames to keep up with any idiot who's equipped the trifecta of sprinting and mastered the skill of holding shift.

 

Taking away control from a player and forcing them to be passive is never going to be fun or skillful.

QFT.

People can dislike it all they like, but it seems crappy to me to listen to one group of people about the way they like to play and then take a dump on the people who like it the other way. Flesh out the system and give it depth not hamper it and ruin people's fun.

[Mediave]

"Someone did something more complicated than just holding down a button and now he's better/stronger/faster than me with all my best equipment"

It's been heard time and time again.

 

 

I think that an active, hands on method of movement should always be faster than a dumb-as-bricks passive one. The current system has the magnitude of the effect about right, but is quite simple to execute and is too repetitive. When they introduce melee combos, chaining together 6-8 of them should be the best method of moving around, and then this knifejacking can die.

 

As it stands, the movement system between frames is pathetically undeveloped. There's no reason why speed differences should even exist in a co-op game, and any attempts to overcome this imbalance should not be subverted.

 

The current implementation gives control to players who are willing to sacrifice a combat efficient melee weapon in order to open up an active system of speed control. While I believe that its skill:reward ratio is too low, its effectiveness is a vital part of the game's movement system that allows slower frames to keep up with any idiot who's equipped the trifecta of sprinting and mastered the skill of holding shift.

 

Taking away control from a player and forcing them to be passive is never going to be fun or skillful.

 

The majority of this post is false justification.  A human being can not grab two kitchen knives, and suddenly skate around like a top and move faster than they can by running.  You can't jump in the air and spin around once and suddenly shoot yourself 15-20 feet forward.  I'm very well aware of the fact that "Hey this is a game, it doesn't have to follow the rules of real life" but come on, that's still ridiculous.

 

You also post in here that, since this is a co-op game, there shouldn't be differences in movement speeds from frame to frame (or at least not a big difference), and I whole heartedly agree with this.  I don't think DE really understood how much Rhino and Frost lose effectiveness by being so drastically slower than frames like Loki and Ash, who can be well ahead of others and clearing rooms before the rest of the party can catch up.

(This is less directed at you and more in general)  The argument of "Put a Rush mod in" doesn't work either.  Fast frames can all equip them too, making them even more ridiculously fast.

 

[Bakim0n0]

The majority of this post is false justification.  A human being can not grab two kitchen knives, and suddenly skate around like a top and move faster than they can by running.  You can't jump in the air and spin around once and suddenly shoot yourself 15-20 feet forward.  I'm very well aware of the fact that "Hey this is a game, it doesn't have to follow the rules of real life" but come on, that's still ridiculous.

 

You also post in here that, since this is a co-op game, there shouldn't be differences in movement speeds from frame to frame (or at least not a big difference), and I whole heartedly agree with this.  I don't think DE really understood how much Rhino and Frost lose effectiveness by being so drastically slower than frames like Loki and Ash, who can be well ahead of others and clearing rooms before the rest of the party can catch up.

(This is less directed at you and more in general)  The argument of "Put a Rush mod in" doesn't work either.  Fast frames can all equip them too, making them even more ridiculously fast.

So in real life we can throw spinning razerblade boomerangs that come back to us without chopping off our hands?

We can jump 20+m in the air?

We can shoot fireballs from our fingertips?

But sure, false equivalency and lets make this particular aspect more realistic and who gives a crap if me make a game, meant to have fun with, less fun for people who have been enjoying these things for months on end. I know, since we cannot really wallrun like they do lets just remove parkour altogether, and since we can't run in full armor lets remove the ability to run from every heavily armored frame and make it so no frames can jump either because all that armor has got to be way too heavy.

[LazyTemplar]

So in real life we can throw spinning razerblade boomerangs that come back to us without chopping off our hands?

We can jump 20+m in the air?

We can shoot fireballs from our fingertips?

But sure, false equivalency and lets make this particular aspect more realistic and who gives a crap if me make a game, meant to have fun with, less fun for people who have been enjoying these things for months on end. I know, since we cannot really wallrun like they do lets just remove parkour altogether, and since we can't run in full armor lets remove the ability to run from every heavily armored frame and make it so no frames can jump either because all that armor has got to be way too heavy.

 

 

It's about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief'> suspension of disbelief.    

 

Think about it this way.  You're writing a science fiction novel.  You take the different points as ideas to your editor:  

 

You:  I want my space ninjas to be able to throw razor disks, shoot fireballs from their hands, and jump 20 feet in the air.  

Editor:  Okay, that sounds like standard ninja stuff.  The audience will understand and buy into this.  

 

You:  I want my space ninjas to propel themselves faster by doing mini-squats as they run.  And they can shoot forwards very quickly if they spin in a circle, but only if they are holding certain weapons. 

Editor:  Er... what?  That doesn't really make any sense.  Unless you're going to explain how it works in game, you're going to lose the audience here.  

[Mediave]

So in real life we can throw spinning razerblade boomerangs that come back to us without chopping off our hands?

We can jump 20+m in the air?

We can shoot fireballs from our fingertips?

But sure, false equivalency and lets make this particular aspect more realistic and who gives a crap if me make a game, meant to have fun with, less fun for people who have been enjoying these things for months on end. I know, since we cannot really wallrun like they do lets just remove parkour altogether, and since we can't run in full armor lets remove the ability to run from every heavily armored frame and make it so no frames can jump either because all that armor has got to be way too heavy.

 

And are you trying to say that characters should be able to do all this, but yet somehow they don't have the leg strength to run faster?  Sorry, but  no.  Leg muscles are amongst the most used and most developed in the body.  If you could somehow propel yourself that fast by spinning your arms, you could run that much faster.

[Gh0st_Slay3r]

 

The devs got rid of wave dashing, or what ever people like to call it, because it was not intended so if I was you I would get ready to be disappointed.

 

 

Called it. ;)

[Vabla]

Thank you for removing one more thing that gave you an advantage is you had some more skill. Could we please remove the requirement to aim as well? Thank you.

[potatofamine]

Thank you for removing one more thing that gave you an advantage is you had some more skill. Could we please remove the requirement to aim as well? Thank you.

 

They did.

 

Aim Assist for controllers is now a toggle option.

[Mediave]

Thank you for removing one more thing that gave you an advantage is you had some more skill. Could we please remove the requirement to aim as well? Thank you.

 

Using an exploit =/= skill.  Sorry.

[Romalic]

its an old argument, yes

 

it has some problems though, for example, day before yesterday I completed a new frame and loaded it with new weapons and started running through mercury for resources and to level it, joined up with another new player and we worked our way through, the guys first time playing so we went slow and played through, I showed him the spots for containers etc and we had fun, then we got to vor, now we had had a full group of people for every mission but no idiots who slash attack through the entire map, and lets get this straight, theres nothing basically wrong with using it to get a quick boost to cross a gap or make a jump, that's fine by me

 

whats not fine is what happened next, these 2 idiots joined, within 3 secs they were out of sight, it took them less than I min to kill the boss and get to extraction, we had no chance, they killed nothing but the boss and extracted, we had no way with low level weapons and the other guy I was with being new, of killing all the grineer and getting to the exit before the countdown, so it was a waste of time for both of us, and why did they do it? because they could.

 

if you want to speed run or speed slash through a level fine, play solo, you don't NEED 3 other people who want to play the game to do this, or wait for them at the end, wait you say I should wait at the end? but im not gonna do that, I don't know you and I don't care if you don't extract and get what you need, and that's the bottom line, the maps are there to be played through, there is effectively very little stealth components to the game at this time, if you play the game you have to fight your way through

 

oversimplistic?, maybe, but it really happens, A LOT, people just fly through the map using these techs and leave the newer or people who want to play the maps behind, its not right that I should have to do this, just like its not right that you should not, but you have a choice, you don't need to play online to do it, I get 2 idiot rushers who don't care for the other 2 group members and that's it im screwed

 

makes you wonder how many people have been put off by experiencing this and left

[DarkMark]

My main complaint is the awkward slow down if you try to slide again too fast. You're able to slide fast once, then you try it again, and you just stop dead in your tracks unless you wait 3-4 seconds. That's even more unrealistic than before.

[Vabla]

They did.

*facedesk*

 

 

Using an exploit =/= skill.  Sorry.

Wasn't an exploit.

[xection9]

OP and QQer wins, i congrats you for being successful whiner!

[Meltina]

Using an exploit =/= skill.  Sorry.

Gunz and kystyling says diffrently.

Im sure you never cancel out a punch into a special move or then cancel it out into a super in a fighting game. That was an exploit too.

So the animation and timer taxes x seconds to finish The reload finishes faster people canceled the last of the reload. It was an exploit but devs decided it was a nice skill trick and purpously code in reload canceling now. Even warframe has it.

 

Exploits are not good or bad. Some improve the game and should be nurtured others abuse it and should be fixed. The fact the move was an exploit is not the issue. Fixing it because it disrupted gameplay is fine but when theres other methods to doing it they have fixed no gameplay and are instead forcing the game play on players in only their fashion. If a player finds a neat way that wasn't intended to get to a secret area. You leave it in not remove it because you werent suppousto wall run across 3 pipe sections to get there. People are getting angry because DE is acting like Vernant and ask any EQ players about their VISION tm to see how bad it was.

[Luxangel7]

OP and QQer wins, i congrats you for being successful whiner!

 

This comment really doesn't do you any credit.

 

Don't be mad and try to lash out against others just because now speed mods actually have a use other than being collector's items.

 

 

On topic, I'm glad they're addressing the issue, as many people understand they should, whether they liked this exploit or not.

 

However, I think it still needs to be tweaked, as right now the slide cooldown is much too long and awkward. And the slide, forward flip, stop / needs to be tweaked as well to let us finish with another slide, as just ending the forward flip with an awkward stop is very jarring and just weird.