Improving Puncture Mods

[dEEkAy2k9]

Hey there folks!

 

Currently we got a few Puncture Mods, rangin from 0,05/0,1 to 0,35/0,60 Meters.

 

While i do like the idea of the puncture mods to shoot through cover (rail fences, shield lancers shield for example), those mods are nearly useless for anything else and cost 15 mod points when maxed as well as being rare mods (higher fusion costs)

 

So here's my suggestion on how to improve those puncture mods.

 

The shooting through things part:

Let's say i got a 0,60 puncture mod on my rifle (thats maxed, 15 mod points)

I hit an enemy for about 100 Damage, 60% of that damage now puncture through the enemy onto whatever is behind that one. This damage is calculated after the basedamage + damage increasing mods (like serration, hornet strike, point blank)

This would make puncture more valuable on weapons with high damage, like the snipetron and the latron (both pack a nice punch per shot). Snipetrons hitting for about 300-500 could hit multiple enemies when lined up well.

 

The puncturing part itself:

As the puncture mods enable you to shoot through stuff, like cover and enemies, why not give it armor ignoring then?

One would believe that if i can shoot THROUGH an enemy, i surely am shooting through his armor, right? Puncture Mods should give it's weapon armor ignoring (not armor piercing) abilities, making it more valuable on weapons that do not ignore armor already (burston, latron, bratons, etc)

 

The puncture types:

While high velocity projectiles like the ones shot from snipetron or the latron surely pack more punch, projectiles form shotguns (mainly pellets) do penetrate objects worse.

So here's my suggestion to the differently available puncture types.

- Puncture Mods for Snipers (Snipetron)

- Puncture Mods for Rifles (Burston, Bratons, Grakata, etc)

- Puncture Mods for Shotguns (Hek, Boar, Strun)

- Puncture Mods for Pistols

 

The values:

As i already said, different types of weapons should penetrate to a different extent.

- Shotguns are the ones that penetrate the least, giving them 0,05 Puncture per rank, resulting in a maximum of 0,35 Puncture

- Rifles should puncture from about 0,10 per rank up to a maximum of 0,60.

- Snipers should puncture from about 0,25 per rank up to a maximum of 1,50

- Pistols are some kind of exception, they should puncture between shotguns and rifles, although this might be difficult to implement code-wise. Of course there are different pistols like the lex (more sniper like) and the bronco (more shotgun like)

 

Now there are two points i'd like to adress.

 

-There are a few exceptions to the rules i put up above. Bolt-Shooting Guns. They already ignore armor and they are able to hit multiple enemies (corpes flying backwards, hitting another enemy). Those guns would not benefit from this mod at all. Maybe from the shoot-through-cover-part but that's kinda wierd. Arrows and Bolts passing through metal cover to kill people behind it.

 

- The Latron. Currently it is a rifle rather then a sniper. It uses rifle ammo and would benefit from the rifle version of the puncture mods.

 

- The Bronco. It's clearly a shotgun, but this weapon benefits from all standard pistol mods. There's no special shotgun pistol multishot like there is for the primaries just to give you an example of what i mean.

 

Feel free to tell me what you think about my suggestions. If you like my idea, pls vote me up so devs can see if you want this to happen or not.

Edited May 12, 2013 by dEEkAy2k9

[Mainabi]

about bolt types I've got an idea, the bolts can split up behind the target. and make it look like it rains of minibolts/arrows applying elemental damage,

well not to make it op, the damage should also be reduced and the range should be limited.

that way the bolt type weapons can offer a different type of gameplay also work as an crowd control weapon

[dEEkAy2k9]

about bolt types I've got an idea, the bolts can split up behind the target. and make it look like it rains of minibolts/arrows applying elemental damage,

well not to make it op, the damage should also be reduced and the range should be limited.

that way the bolt type weapons can offer a different type of gameplay also work as an crowd control weapon

 

that might indeed be a good idea, although i think this sounds like something that could be accomplished by the combination of puncture and multishot mods. maybe mods changing the way other mods work.

[Mainabi]

that might indeed be a good idea, although i think this sounds like something that could be accomplished by the combination of puncture and multishot mods. maybe mods changing the way other mods work.

that would be really a nice feature, but wouldn't that mod combination remove the unique feature of bolt weapons?

 

the important thing about different weapons is the feel

not only stats, bolt weapons are already a kind of a crowd control weapon because you can hit enemies behind the first target and pierce them to walls, giving them a kind of an aoe knockback (the piercing ability of bolt weapons should remain but the enemies around the target, well those who aren't directly behind the first target should receive a knockback, maybe just a knockback not a real stagger)

[dEEkAy2k9]

any more suggestions? any backers?

[Phoenix86]

Having this mod to go through "an entire enemy" and kill the one behind would make this mod the most OP ever...

for me, it's ok as it is...

[Mainabi]

it would only kill if the damage is the same but as you can clearly see, the damage gets reduced

Edited May 13, 2013 by SeiraSunmin

[dEEkAy2k9]

Having this mod to go through "an entire enemy" and kill the one behind would make this mod the most OP ever...

for me, it's ok as it is...

 

Why is that? Because it would then double your damage? Come on, you already got a mod that gives you a chance of 90-120% to shoot additional bullets, resulting in a heavy damage increase. There are mods that just increase your base damage by 220% !!!

 

I am not saying that puncture should penetrate 15 enemies at once. Just make it to be of any use at all.

Right now the puncture mods are just expensive (modpoints) and don't do anything besides penetrate stuff you already can avoid (just shoot above shield lancers shield or the heads that stick out of cover at those fences.)

 

My idea is to basically give weapons with a high ammount of damage the ability to penetrate more then just one target. I know, comparing stuff from the reality with warframe is bad but still, we got these high damage rifles like the snipetron or the latron. we got bullets that burn, freeze, electrocute and pierce the enemy all at once. What's so bad about a mod that makes it possible to shoot through 1 or 2 enemies, dealing reduced damage to consecutively hit targets because of loss of kinetic energy?

[dEEkAy2k9]

push

 

seems like this thread is dieing and i really feel like keeping it up and talking about the puncture mods is necessary to get them changed and useful again is important

[Kiry]

Thats obvius as day and night, Puncture need that buff,been said countless times.And make some something bout its working properly with bolt weapons.

[(NSW)Canadabis]

How about lower the cost of it's highest level to 5, make it so it will actually pierce the 60cm it's supposed to at max rank, instead of bouncing off the 5 centimeter corner of something that in itself is 2 meters thick. How about making it actually penetrate enemies, because as it is now almost every single enemy is like a meter thick+, like hell, a grineer from forehead to back of it's hump-thingy is enough to use up all of that 60cm... Charger? Oh yeah, those things are long, so yeah, no penetration, um, ancients? Nope, big ol slab of bullet-sponge, any grineer? Oh yeah, ballistas! Yes, this mod at max level WILL penetrate through one (or more?) balistas lined up, too bad they only appear one at a time pretty much. Runners or leapers? Well, yeah... In theory, but uhn... Their animation makes them rock back and forth creating a target that alternates between unpiercable-piercable-unpiercable at such a rapid ocilation it's like, yeah, no, considering you can just one hit them anyway pretty much after a day of playing, so...

 

Corpus moas? I suppose, sometimes?

 

This mod costs three times what it *would* be worth, if it guaranteed to pass through every single enemy and also all intervening cover to the value indicated. But yeah. Just totally rework it, make it do something new and cool, and just forget that there appears to be no way to determine that the corner of that box is NOT as thick as the whole box lol.

[TonyOneBlairoby]

What about puncture to work like crit chances mods do?

 

Like every weapon have some chances to go throught anything that dont exceed 50 cm wide. ANd then the puncture mod would increase those chances.

 

The sniptron would have like 80% base chance, and the mod would give at max +125% chance = 180% chance, eash additionnal 100% counting for another target to be pierced throught.

Of course, each penetration should lower the next dmg on the next target.

 

And with that, there would be no abuse like shotting enemy in the next room, or throught a huge pillar. And as for crit, some weapons would benefit from this mod while some other, not at all.

 

It seem a little ridiculous to me that any puncture mod would have the same effect on sniptron than on afuris by exemple. So i think focusing on the raw distance is the main mistake of the actual mod setting.

 

Also, maybe each weapon, in addition to having it proper puncture chances, would have it self puncture distance. And maybe another mod only would allow to increase this stats. It would be a mod that upgrade all raw stats of the weapon (dmg, rate of fire, reload time, crit chance, puncture thickness... every stats that the weapon have while brand new) by 4% per rank, at a max of 20% (rank 5).

 

 

 

______

 

 

 

But it could either be as simple as a mod that allow to go throught 1 object à rank 1, 2 and 4,  and throught 2 objects at rank 5. Still, a limitation of thickness is needed, like each object should not exceed 50 cm.

[(NSW)Canadabis]

Just curious, considering the over abundance of multiple polarity slot weapons, after using serration, split chamber, and all 4 damage mods, what level of metal auger would you recommend? It's a trick question, there is never room anywhere, on anything after those mandatory for high level mods, in fact, due to there being like, no polarities on almost any guns, you have to pick and chose which type of damage mods at what level to add, since 30 mod points are flat out gone from multi shot and serration :P It's a beta, these things will be looked at, for now, just hang onto your random strange rare mods, they might get looked at sooner than you think ;)

[TonyOneBlairoby]

I think its a good thing that you can't fit everything, even potatoed. You have to choose.