[Suggestion] More Replay, Less Burnout

[Licter]

Ok, so after 97 hours in game, I had some ideas about how to improve replay (or continued play I suppose).

 

1) New enemies.  I have 5 warframes now, and have had about 17 different weapons at some point.  I've certainly enjoyed new play styles due to different frames and guns; eventually though the difference between shooting fire from my hands instead of electricity, or a big axe vs a big hammer, becomes negligible.  What would help more would be half again more enemies per faction, and less chance of having every possible type of enemy show up for every mission.  This way you don't know for sure what enemies you'll be facing; in general you know what's available, but won't know which ones you'll actually find.

 

2) Weapon modifications.  Adding mods for weapons that would allow changing basic characteristics of the gun would open a whole new field of exploring options for gameplay.  Examples might include mods for scope (increase or decrease aim zoom), silencer, accuracy increase, increase or decrease choke (shotgun spread), recoil compensation, knockdown chance, and energy gain on weapon hit.  Of course there are a lot of balance issues to consider, but I feel that breaking the game for a few days before hotfixing wouldn't hurt the game, and in the long run leads to a much richer playing experience.

 

3) Enemy synergies.  Right now, enemies work together by hiding behind a shield soldier, or working together to stun-lock a player simply by having a whole bunch of mobs in the same area.  What if Shockwave Moa, rather than running up and stomping immediately, reacted to other shockwaves and staggered their attacks.  They could even sit back and shoot, and run forward to do knockdown as crewmembers moved around to try and flank the party.  Same with Grineer heavies or infested ancients.  A little more dynamic AI behavior could make engaging the enemies a bit more unique at times, and require a bit more coordination and tactics by the Tenno team.

 

4) Environment interactions. We can hack the ship's systems to disengage a lockdown.  Why not hack the system to engage a lockdown if we want one?  Gotta hack the data node or destroy the reactor?  Engage a lockdown to keep enemies from the room and they have to break in to get us before we are done.  Or simply locking a door behind us as we try to escape.  Perhaps using the multiple entrance/exits in map tiles to allow multiple paths to and from objectives.  Imagine if you get into the ship, hack a terminal, and have a map you can bring up and plot your path to and from where you want to go, rather than following a computer-generated destination.

 

5) New mission types.  So far our mission consist of: grab/capture/rescue it, kill/destroy it, defend/hack it.  How about recon?  Your objective is to observe unit types and amounts, through as much of the ship as possible.  As soon as your presence is discovered, you have 5 minutes to get to extraction or you fail.  Your reward would be scaled based on what percentage of the ship you managed to explore before discovery.  Coupled with the multiple path option above, it could make for some interesting and challenging missions.  Perhaps a support mission, where you are helping an NPC operative in another part of the ship that you don't see.  You may have to go to a place, hack a console, and avoid/kill enemies until further instructions, which may have you rescue or capture, hack more consoles, kill certain enemies, ect.  It would be like the add-on mission objectives now, except multiple objectives would be the whole point from the start.

 

These ideas are meant to be interactive with each other.  New weapon mods means that releasing a new weapon actually creates dozens of possible variations with different damages, accuracies, ect.  A new tile set means all new paths to explore and utilize.  New enemies means a new set of possible synergies or enemy combinations to discover.  It would make all new content released be almost exponential in how much more gameplay variation can be enjoyed.

[muccmaster]

Instead of adding mods for weapon modification how about just making them an entirely different set of items, weapon attachments. There's already not enough mod slots and points available to use the best mods together so I dont see the point in adding more mods.

[Licter]

In my opinion, the point is to require a choice when modifying your weapon.  Reasonably, if you want your weapon to be more accurate and have longer range, you should have to sacrifice some points that would allow you to make it more powerful.  The devs have made it clear that they want to the game to have a sense of consequence; it's why they are more inclined to make you lose energy in permanently degrading a mod rather than being able to adjust its level and cost.  The 'optional reset' comes with a warning that it is violent and permanent, and not for people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

If I want my Snipetron to have less recoil and shoot faster, it's reasonable that it should do less damage or have less ammo, ect.

 

Edit: Also remember that the devs have mentioned more than once that they plan to allow you to take a rank 30 weapon and reset it to rank zero, and in so doing change a polarity slot on the weapon.  With time and work, that would allow you to have a lot more options after you've leveled the weapon up a few times.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Licter

[Boarchild]

6. How about not repeating the same spaceship 90% of the time?

 

I've only played for about 25 hours or so, but that's killing me. Essentially playing the same thing over and over again.

[Licter]

6. How about not repeating the same spaceship 90% of the time?

 

I've only played for about 25 hours or so, but that's killing me. Essentially playing the same thing over and over again.

I considered mentioning that, but I'm willing to see what they add in release 8 "within the next two (or three?) weeks."  They've said explicitly that they are adding new tilesets for Grineer and Orokin.  So we should be seeing that soon anyway.

[Madotsuki]

The game is still in Beta, as in it's not complete. DE is trying their best to add more content already, like new enemies, new weapons, new tilesets etc. For example, in the coming U8 we'll be getting Grineer spaceship tilesets and the Orokin tilesets already, and we're getting the Trapper warframe this Friday, which should definately fit your bill of "different playstyle". Yes the game currently is a serious grind-fest, but there's not much DE can do about it no matter how much people complain. They can note down suggestions for future development, but don't expect the game's replayability to rocket up all of a sudden.

 

However i do agree there are some little things that can be changed to increase replayability. For example, the "faction invasion" event. I know it's supposed to happen, I've seen it a long time before, but it was a LOOOOOONG time ago. I haven't seen a faction invasion on my missions in MONTHS. Increasing the probability of a faction invasion occurring (maybe record a bit of special Lotus dialogue for such an event) shouldn't take more than an hour, it's just changing numbers or something. Though honestly the faction invasion in itself also needs a bit of work. Right now, one faction will always completely replace the original faction within one to two tiles. I'd like to see both sides remaining for the rest of the map after the start of the invasion, turning it into a 3-way battle.

 

In response to each of your above points:

1. YES, more new enemies. I actually have a list of new enemies and adjustments to existing enemies for Grineers here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/30942-grineer-suggestions-for-new-units-squad-combos-better-ai-tweak-old-units/ I would have made a Corpus and Infested one, but apparently no one reads actual content suggestions on these forums.

 

2. A lot of the weapon modifiers you listed sound pretty overpowered to me. I would like a lot more varied mods though. The recent explosive arrows mod and electric shield mod are a step in the right direction. I think DE already announced they'll be adding Glaive mods soon, so that should be interesting. I'd love more elemental shield mods like a fire shield mod (think about what it could do against Infested), or even new elements (like Acid or something). Speaking of elements, I wish elements other than Freeze would DO SOMETHING (other than have a chance to stun certain enemies).

 

3. I already mentioned examples of dynamic AI in my above link. And yes, dynamic AI would be awesome.

 

4. I really like your ideas for environment interaction, though player-initiated lockdowns should, of course, have a cooldown to prevent spamming. Though it can still be used to troll other players. I actually want more ways to induce environmental kills. Right now we only have explosive barrels, which don't scale up in damage to mission level and thus become absolutely useless on high-end planets. I'd love to be able to push enemies into fiery pits, or have different explosive barrels like maybe liquid nitrogen tanks to do AoE freeze.

 

5. Brand new mission types would be hard to implement. Recon sounds like a cool stealth mission. However, not everyone likes to play stealth and Warframe was never advertised as a stealth game, not to mention the current stealth mechanics are completely horrid. The support mission sounds more like a mini-game. In fact, that's what the Recon mission sounds like as well. I suppose as long as such missions are kept to the end of node paths as "bonus missions" and not thrown into the middle of a path as mandatory, I'd support something like this.

[Unit5976]

5. Brand new mission types would be hard to implement. Recon sounds like a cool stealth mission. However, not everyone likes to play stealth and Warframe was never advertised as a stealth game, not to mention the current stealth mechanics are completely horrid. The support mission sounds more like a mini-game. In fact, that's what the Recon mission sounds like as well. I suppose as long as such missions are kept to the end of node paths as "bonus missions" and not thrown into the middle of a path as mandatory, I'd support something like this.

I think having a few easier versions of the mission types should be made mandatory, just to get players introduced to it, similar to the defense missions on Venus that I had to go through to reach Neptune and Ceres. I think they could be good additions (probably as dead-end nodes) available for slightly-more-than-average rewards, like a bit more credits, assuming that DE can have a credit sink ready for it.

[Argoms]

Having levels be less linear could open up quite a lot. Right now, we've only got one or two ways to get to any given spot. Where are the vents to crawl into? :c

 

Instead of adding mods for weapon modification how about just making them an entirely different set of items, weapon attachments. There's already not enough mod slots and points available to use the best mods together so I dont see the point in adding more mods.

Well, that's the entire point. Actual variety in guns with options being equally viable instead of just one optimal set per weapon.

[Licter]

The game is still in Beta, as in it's not complete.

 

Right.  This is a [suggestion] post, not a "omg ur game sux" thread.

 

 

I'd like to see both sides remaining for the rest of the map after the start of the invasion, turning it into a 3-way battle.

 

Yeah, it's always fun to watch two enemies fighting each other.  Better spawn rates and/or tactics between the factions could make for some interesting battles.  Imagine dozens of Grineer and Corpus facing off in a bit room, and you have to run the gauntlet to get to extraction.

 

2. A lot of the weapon modifiers you listed sound pretty overpowered to me.

 

My intent isn't to make all weapons overpowered, but to allow some muddying of each weapon's role.  Like opening the Hek's spread a bit to make it more of a spray shotgun, or closing the Strun's spread to make it a bit more like the Hek.  Not changing damage; Hek is still more powerful, Strun still has more ammo, but I don't have to switch between them in order to fill a certain attack style.  Keep in mind too that points spent on my suggestion mods are points that can't go toward more elemental mods, damage, multishot, ect.

 

 

5. Brand new mission types would be hard to implement.

 

A good game is hard to implement.  DE has done an amazing job so far, and I don't think expanding mission types is outside their capabilities.  And I feel it would add a lot more variety; not as much as some other suggestions, but helpful none the less.

 

I read your post you linked, Madotsuki, and it's great.  I recommend anyone checking it out for some solid ideas on new Grineer soldier ideas.

[muccmaster]

 

Well, that's the entire point. Actual variety in guns with options being equally viable instead of just one optimal set per weapon.

 

I understand, but there's always going to be an optimal setup for every weapon and frame no matter what. To offset this they can just keep releasing awesome mods so its a harder decision for which mods to use.

[Argoms]

I understand, but there's always going to be an optimal setup for every weapon and frame no matter what. To offset this they can just keep releasing awesome mods so its a harder decision for which mods to use.

... That's exactly what I was saying.

 

Weren't you the one who said that there isn't much point in adding more mods?

[muccmaster]

I meant in a way of weapon attachments. For basic things like increased zoom, better accuracy, etc. I think it would be better if they made another set of items just for that purpose and not make them mods. Like how helmets work for warframes.

Edited May 16, 2013 by muccmaster

[Argoms]

How are those any more "basic" than increased damage, magazine capacity, ammunition storage, reload speed etc.?

[muccmaster]

You really think increased zoom is worthy of a mod slot?

[Argoms]

Not in the current state, no. If we get longer ranged combat, maybe I will.

[muccmaster]

No one would ever use that over any of the good mods. That's why I say make a separate group of items. It's just more customization really, what's wrong with that? They could even have them offset with a negative effect so they're not too overpowered.

[Argoms]

How are you so sure of this? I'd use it on my latron if we had longer ranged engagements more often.

[Playbeyond]

In my opinion, the point is to require a choice when modifying your weapon.  Reasonably, if you want your weapon to be more accurate and have longer range, you should have to sacrifice some points that would allow you to make it more powerful.  The devs have made it clear that they want to the game to have a sense of consequence; it's why they are more inclined to make you lose energy in permanently degrading a mod rather than being able to adjust its level and cost.  The 'optional reset' comes with a warning that it is violent and permanent, and not for people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

If I want my Snipetron to have less recoil and shoot faster, it's reasonable that it should do less damage or have less ammo, ect.

 

Edit: Also remember that the devs have mentioned more than once that they plan to allow you to take a rank 30 weapon and reset it to rank zero, and in so doing change a polarity slot on the weapon.  With time and work, that would allow you to have a lot more options after you've leveled the weapon up a few times.

They have talked about this in a live stream not sure which on but it goes along with prestige-ing of the weapons. You will have to search it in the forums but it seems like it will add quite a bit of diversity to the weapons.

[Argoms]

They mention prestiging pretty much every livestream.

[Licter]

Another thing I think would help the game would be a reward system for running alert missions.  For example, every alert mission you run would give you 'credit' towards a reward.  The more credit you have accumulated, the better the reward, so that players have to balance how much they get vs how good the reward is. 

 

This may sound like "oh, I just want to be given more free stuff" to an extent, but it's more about getting players to make choices in how they spend their time.  Personally, I only run alert missions if they have an item I want (which there are about 3 left that I care about) or if the credit reward is unusually high.  Otherwise, I don't see any point when I can run a mission for more money, assuming that I even need money at the time.

[Botein]

Warframe reminds me of Borderlands mixed with the random environments of Diablo 2, the only problem is that it's more similar to Borderlands than Diablo 2 when it comes to replayability.

 

In my opinion; they need to acquire some more elements of Diablo 2 in order to keep people playing the same content over and over again. Character progression is just one aspect that Warframe falls way too short on, especially when it comes to uber loot and skills. I can get to rank 30 with a warframe in a few days, and when I do hit 30 I cant help but feel underwhelmed.  I don't really have the drive to keep leveling in Warframe like I did in Diablo 2, simply because I don't have specific skills or items to look forward to.

A simple solution to that would be some sort of warframe specific bonus that you can either spec or receive at certain benchmarks, like lvl 10, 20, and 30. Guns might also have upgrade slots, like those that others have suggested, where each slot would become unlocked at certain levels and more powerful upgrades would have a higher level requirement. A more complex suggestion would be a multi-tiered leveling system where a lvl 30 gun or warframe can be upgraded into a better gun/frame or even the possibility of combining multiple guns/frames using rare blueprints and recipes.

 

One more suggestion, based on Diablo 2, would involve random "named" enemies in each mission. These enemies would have random modifiers making them unpredictable and entertaining but they would also have higher chances of dropping "loot" as a reward.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Botein

[Caliocerion]

The AI needs some rework, I stood in the middle of a group of chargers shooting into the air in hopes they would kill me, but most of them absolutely refused to attack me and my shields would always replenish before my HP was touched.