Grineer-Suggestions For New Units, Squad Combos, Better Ai, Tweak Old Units

[Madotsuki]

This is going to be the first of a series of threads where I suggest ideas to the devs for new units to introduce, improvements to the AI, and tweaks to existing units, in order to patch up existing features that are too frustrating or exploits that people use to cheese the AI, basically to make each faction as interesting to fight as possible.

 

This first thread is dedicated to the Grineer, one of the currently most boring factions. In its current state, the Grineer are essentially generic human enemies that only require the player to take cover and play whack-a-mole with their heads. The only thing that spices it up is the Roller, and yet the Roller not only does not fit the general design of the Grineer (human-based military faction), but is obnoxious, repeatedly staggers players, enforces certain playstyles and loadouts, can stunlock in groups of 3+, and makes players more likely to run away to slowly cheese them in peace instead of facing them like a man. Below, I shall suggest a list of new enemy units that can spice up the faction, such as forcing players out of cover without relying on stagger mechanics, as well as AI improvements to make the Grineer a tough but fair faction to face off against, including the introduction of squad formations and tweaks to existing enemies. For reading convenience, each part will be kept in a spoiler window.

 

NEW UNITS

 

Grineer Grenadier

• Heavy unit
• Uses a pipebomb launcher, with a fire rate of 1 bomb per second. Has a clip size of 4 before reloading.
• Pipebombs, unlike sticky grenades from other units, can bounce off walls and roll slightly on surfaces. On hitting a surface, it will activate a 3 second timer, exploding afterwards. Pipebombs glow and make a beeping sound upon activation.
• Each pipebomb does a base damage of 150, increases with enemy level. The further the player is from the centre of the explosion, the less damage he takes.
• Role: Launch pipebombs around and over cover using its arc and wall-bounce properties to flush players out of cover.

 

Grineer Juggernaut

• Heavy unit
• Carries a shield similar to Shield Lancers but scaled up in size. Big enough to block out all damage from the front except to his feet. There is a thin glass slit on the shield for the Juggernaut to see through. Glass slit can be broken by bullets and then shot through for headshots, giving an advantage to precision weapons.
• Instead of a gun, carries a Manticore axe/Brokk hammer. Moves much the same way as Shield Lancers until in mid-range, at which point he breaks into a sprint towards the player. Shield is moved slightly to the side in this phase.
• When the Juggernaut reaches the player, he stops and smashes his axe/hammer at the ground where the player is. If hit, deals 500+ damage, knocks back and knocks down player. Also creates quake effect on impact with ground, causing stagger but no damage if hit. Quake radius is half that of Fragor, can be jumped over.
• After a strike, Juggernaut takes 2 seconds to lift up his hammer/axe again, during which his shield is moved to the side, leaving him vulnerable to damage completely. After the 2 seconds, he will recover and reposition the shield in front of himself. Has a minimum of 5-second cooldown before he can attack again.
• Role: Provides mobile cover for Heavy units (nearby units will run forward with the Juggernaut when he charges). Provides different approaches for players (precision aiming at glass slit/flanking with multiple players/baiting into attacking)

 

Grineer Torcher

• “Commander” unit (between heavy and medium)
• Wields a flamethrower. Shoots a medium range stream of fire instead of Napalm fireballs.
• Attempts to ambush players like light units. Once in close range, he will spray a stream of fire at players, dealing constant damage while players are touching the fire. Keeps spraying as long as players are still in range, stops to retreat if not. Moves as slow as Heavy walk speed when attacking, allowing players to outrun him.
• Has a 0.5 sec “priming” time before attacking, during which the tip of the flamethrower starts glowing from heat and makes a sound of gas being released, giving players a slight warning.
• Role: Ambush unaware players and flush players out of cover with flames.

 

BETTER AI

 

Squad mechanics

The Grineer, despite being a military organization, is one of the most random and un-organized armies I’ve ever seen. They have barely any teamwork and just randomly send whatever they have on board at you. The only flanking I’ve ever seen them do is spawn a wave behind you in the room you just cleared 5 seconds ago. What they need are Squad Formations.

 

Essentially, aside from the constant stream of fodder, have them also spawn in certain groups of formations. For example, having two Shield Lancers guard a Seeker while he deploys Latchers at players in relative safety; having two Heavy Napalms cover the area behind players with fire as a wave of light units zerg rush from the front; having a Commander switch teleport you into a ring of Powerfists; the possibilities are endless! Squad Formations can spawn more often as enemy level goes up, as well as increasing their complexity. That is a much better way to increase difficulty instead of just making enemies more bullet spongy.

 

AI Fixes

Currently there are some pretty stupid things that Grineers do that make potentially challenging attacks trivial. Here is a small list of particularly visible Grineer AI idiocy, and how to fix them.

 

• Grenade throwing. Currently the AI does not take into account the environment and will blindly aim their projectiles at your feet. This can’t be helped much with straight-flying projectiles like Bombard rockets and Napalm fireballs, but considering grenades can arc, this is pretty stupid, as they simply fail at throwing them over cover and most nades simply latch on and explode to the front of boxes while players hide on the back safely. With a little bit of work, by having the AI take the environment into account (cover etc.) and calculate a trajectory to land the nade as close to the player as possible by controlling throw strength, angle of projection etc., nades will become a much more useful weapon for them. Enemy level can change the possible margin of error, so that lower level enemies have relatively poor aim, while higher level enemies can pull off call-of-duty-across-the-map throws reliably.

 

• Light units are idiots. So many times I’ve had sawmen and powerfists attempt Leeroy Jenkinses on me from across the room while I casually line up a headshot for them. Flameblades fare a little better due to teleportation, but they can’t all have teleports can they? Sawmen and Powerfists really need better pathing so that they can try to attack from the side or back of the player. Whether this new pathing triggers over the straight-ahead pathing can be based on distance and enemy level.

 

Tweaking existing enemies

Aside from the above AI fixes, some existing enemies really need some tweaking to make them either more challenging or less frustrating.

• Seekers: First off, their Latchers really need a damage buff. For something that can be removed with a single roll, its damage is way too insignificant. For me, when a Latcher latches on, instead of “Oh god get it off” it’s more of a “Meh, there’s more important things to kill”. Latchers on players should at least do 100 damage a pop, increasing with enemy level. Secondly, Seekers are way too brave. For a unit whose main job is deploying explosive marbles, I’ve seen him out in the open attempting to blast me with a Kraken too much. He should be hiding in cover mostly, forcing players to search for him or track the Latchers to him. Only when found should he resort to shooting while attempting to retreat.
• Ballistas: As snipers, they don’t stay at range enough. Ballistas should be given better pathing and mobility (speed, super jumps) to stay in medium-long range and utilize high ground and cover.
• Heavies: First, a bit of a glitch. Lotus no longer informs players of Heavy Gunners, only other Heavy units. This ought to be fixed. Second, Heavies ought to have rechargeable shields. Currently, once broken, their shields never regen again. I think Heavies should be able to regen their shields as long as they’re not being damaged, like bosses but without nearly the crazy charge rate and non-existent delay. The current recharge rate and delay will do. (If you shoot a Heavy without breaking his shield and then wait, you’ll see they do regen)
• Commanders: Their Switch Teleport should only be usable if they have line of sight to the player, to avoid random through-wall teleports. Also rechargeable shields please. Would be nice if Lotus also informed players of the presence of Commanders (explicitly stating it’s a Commander, not a random Heavy unit)
• Rollers: I’ve gone over this in a different thread before. Basically, allow players to bat away Rollers with their melee weapon by performing a block (facing the Roller) when a Roller hits the player. The Roller will be sent flying for a distance and be disabled for 2-3 seconds on impact with a surface. Slamming the Roller into a wall deals damage to the Roller based on its impact speed (speed slows down the longer it flies due to air resistance), and slamming one into an enemy deals damage to that enemy based on impact speed. This increases the use of environmental awareness and is damn fun.

 

Tl;dr The Grineer can benefit a lot as an enemy faction with more unit variety and better AI.

Based on the reception of this topic, I’ll decide whether to make a Corpus and Infested topic in the future.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Madotsuki

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Sweet Sufferer's pants this is well thought out and generally amazing.

Please, make a Corpus and Infested one.

Perhaps melee units (other than Flameblade) can get a Speed like Volt's? That might actually let them make straight room dashes. That, and possibly some new kind of melee unit that uses baldes like the Tenno have and can wall run and everything that the Tenno can. Grineer Hunter, maybe? Something that should dodge well and be able to take a hit or two and should be a relentless chaser.

Edited April 18, 2013 by SolluxCaptorTA

[auxy]

Yes, I like this a lot too. Very well thought out and organized. I especially like the AI fix ideas and the idea for the Juggernaut enemy as well.

[LordofHaven]

I agree the Grineer Napalm needs its gun to be replaced with an actual flame thrower forget adding another fire unit. The Bombard's weapon should be a lobbing grenade projectile instead of the nonsensically slow explosive projectile it fires. It should be either the minibomb's the OP described or a type of fragmentation explosive that sends shrapnel projectiles all around after the grenade detonates. Some thing similar along to the lines of Unreal Tournament's (2004) Flak cannon secondary fire. The Terminator...Juggernaut ^^ sounds pretty cool and would be a nice elite unit as well. 

[Makemap]

I think Flamethrower will be too much because of the Commanders. Isn't There already Grenadiers? They are the Red Grineers.

[Madotsuki]

I think Flamethrower will be too much because of the Commanders. Isn't There already Grenadiers? They are the Red Grineers.

I guess the Torchers need a little more thinking about how they'd synchronise with other units. As for Grenadiers, no, the Red Grineers are Napalms which shoot straight-flying fireballs which create temporary fire hazards.

[Tsukinoki]

I guess the Torchers need a little more thinking about how they'd synchronise with other units. As for Grenadiers, no, the Red Grineers are Napalms which shoot straight-flying fireballs which create temporary fire hazards.

 

For torchers they could advance from right behind some normal shielders from behind/to the sides of players. That would give them some cover while allowing them to chase the player out of cover and into the main grineer forces. Or a Torcher can act as "guards" to keep players away from the lighter armored grineer, such as ballistas.

[auxy]

I actually disagree with your point that the rollers don't fit the style of the Grinneer. In fact, I think they suit them perfectly -- as a more or less human military operation, drones and other mechanical tools make perfect sense.

 

Now, do I think they're fun to fight? Heck no! (・へ・)　They're irritating as all get-out. I think the problems with them could mostly be mitigated by making sure they never spawn more than one or two at a time, but that's for another thread.

 

I agree that the Grinneer are mostly pretty boring to fight; certainly, their enemy variety is not very good.

 

As far as your new units, I really like the Juggernaut, as I said before. The Grinneer don't really have anything to charge in and break up a Tenno lovenest, and something like that could really cause some disruption in the ranks, allowing the Grinneer -- equipped with shiny new AI -- to focus fire on one left out, or perform some clever flanking maneuvers. Right now, the Grinneer shout orders to each other, but they don't seem to have any actual effect.

 

The grenadier seems fun, but I'd actually like to see him as a light unit. I don't know about the damage number; obviously, it'd have to scale with level -- those kinds of specifics are for the QA team and beta testers to figure out later, that's not design work. (╹◡╹)

 

As for the torcher, I could see him being really frustrating, so I don't know if he's such a good idea. It seems fun, but the reality is that sneaky, high-DPS enemies like that are really un-fun if they aren't veeeerry carefully balanced. Imagine getting stuck in a tiny, dead-end room with one of these guys! As long as their damage isn't too high, I think it could be neat. Certainly different from anything else in the game right now!

 

The problem with having really good adaptive AI in a game allowing for emergent enemy behavior is that it's really taxing, computationally. I agree that the kinds of things you suggest -- I love the idea of Commanders using their teleport to drop you in the middle of a bunch of melee troopers -- would be really cool, but I don't know if they're realistic given the budget this game has to work with. Frankly, I'm a little flabbergasted that they weren't using solid-state storage for the game servers to begin with!

 

You are ABSOLUTELY spot-on with the AI fixes. Back in 1996, Id Software's Quake had Ogres, hideous brutes with a chainsaw in one hand and a grenade launcher in the other. On that simplistic game, these jerkwads had insane accuracy with their grenades; they could arc them over walls, bounce them around corners, and generally land them directly on your face, if you didn't move. There's really no reason the enemies in this game are so brain-dead with their grenades -- and your pipebomber guy would benefit a lot from that AI improvement too, which could make him a real problem.

 

On a related note, I'd really like to see a grenade launcher weapon. Also rocket launcher. Anything like this, really.

 

For your enemy tweaks, I mostly agree -- although giving Ballistas super jump might be super annoying. I realy like your idea about blocking rollers. I think blocking is a mechanic that doesn't get enough use in this game.

 

Overall great post! I have no real expectation that any of either of our ideas will get implemented, but we can dream, neh?　(╹◡╹)

[Madotsuki]

 

I actually disagree with your point that the rollers don't fit the style of the Grinneer. In fact, I think they suit them perfectly -- as a more or less human military operation, drones and other mechanical tools make perfect sense.

 

Now, do I think they're fun to fight? Heck no! (・へ・)　They're irritating as all get-out. I think the problems with them could mostly be mitigated by making sure they never spawn more than one or two at a time, but that's for another thread.

 

I agree that the Grinneer are mostly pretty boring to fight; certainly, their enemy variety is not very good.

 

As far as your new units, I really like the Juggernaut, as I said before. The Grinneer don't really have anything to charge in and break up a Tenno lovenest, and something like that could really cause some disruption in the ranks, allowing the Grinneer -- equipped with shiny new AI -- to focus fire on one left out, or perform some clever flanking maneuvers. Right now, the Grinneer shout orders to each other, but they don't seem to have any actual effect.

 

The grenadier seems fun, but I'd actually like to see him as a light unit. I don't know about the damage number; obviously, it'd have to scale with level -- those kinds of specifics are for the QA team and beta testers to figure out later, that's not design work. (╹◡╹)

 

As for the torcher, I could see him being really frustrating, so I don't know if he's such a good idea. It seems fun, but the reality is that sneaky, high-DPS enemies like that are really un-fun if they aren't veeeerry carefully balanced. Imagine getting stuck in a tiny, dead-end room with one of these guys! As long as their damage isn't too high, I think it could be neat. Certainly different from anything else in the game right now!

 

The problem with having really good adaptive AI in a game allowing for emergent enemy behavior is that it's really taxing, computationally. I agree that the kinds of things you suggest -- I love the idea of Commanders using their teleport to drop you in the middle of a bunch of melee troopers -- would be really cool, but I don't know if they're realistic given the budget this game has to work with. Frankly, I'm a little flabbergasted that they weren't using solid-state storage for the game servers to begin with!

 

You are ABSOLUTELY spot-on with the AI fixes. Back in 1996, Id Software's Quake had Ogres, hideous brutes with a chainsaw in one hand and a grenade launcher in the other. On that simplistic game, these jerkwads had insane accuracy with their grenades; they could arc them over walls, bounce them around corners, and generally land them directly on your face, if you didn't move. There's really no reason the enemies in this game are so brain-dead with their grenades -- and your pipebomber guy would benefit a lot from that AI improvement too, which could make him a real problem.

 

On a related note, I'd really like to see a grenade launcher weapon. Also rocket launcher. Anything like this, really.

 

For your enemy tweaks, I mostly agree -- although giving Ballistas super jump might be super annoying. I realy like your idea about blocking rollers. I think blocking is a mechanic that doesn't get enough use in this game.

 

Overall great post! I have no real expectation that any of either of our ideas will get implemented, but we can dream, neh?　(╹◡╹)

 

I guess I oughta rework the Torcher a bit. As for grenade/rocket launcher weapons, sadly while it sounds cool, it is not very implementable in Warframe. Something as powerful as a launcher would have to have very little ammo to compensate. If it replaces Primary, most people who use heavy firerate pistols will run out of ammo really quickly, and if it replaces Secondary....well, who would prefer a pistol over a friggin' rocket launcher? It works in games like Borderlands 2 which let you hold 4 weapons at a time and a lot more in your inventory for free swapping, but in Warframe not so much. Ballistas would just use the super jump for mobility to get to higher ground really. Snipers have an advantage when on higher ground afterall. It wouldn't make them really hard to hit or anything.

 

And yes, I doubt the devs would even consider our ideas, but hey at least I can share my ideas XD It's almost like fanfiction XD Or fanwork at the very least. 

[Madotsuki]

For torchers they could advance from right behind some normal shielders from behind/to the sides of players. That would give them some cover while allowing them to chase the player out of cover and into the main grineer forces. Or a Torcher can act as "guards" to keep players away from the lighter armored grineer, such as ballistas.

I was thinking more along the lines of Torchers going around the player and attacking from behind while the players are busy fighting enemies in front of them. Also, I doubt Torchers can really guard other units well, considering players can just shoot them from afar.

[Tsukinoki]

I was thinking more along the lines of Torchers going around the player and attacking from behind while the players are busy fighting enemies in front of them. Also, I doubt Torchers can really guard other units well, considering players can just shoot them from afar.

While that is true it would be a counter against melee users mainly and just an idea I though to suggest.  And my ideas with the shield/torcher combo would be thats what they do, come up behind the player and surprise them.  Reason I suggested the shields is that depending on how tanky they make the torchers it might be a good idea to give them some form of cover that would keep them alive a few extra seconds.

[Kahruvel]

New units? Yes please.

 

The rollers are there for a very good reason though. They might be annoying to fight, yes. But from a tactical standpoint, whoever invents something like this is a genius. What better way to tie up enemies defensively so your team could advance unhindered? What better way to force an entire squad out of cover and expose them entirely?

 

Rollers serve a purpose. The reason they're in the game is to force us to switch tactics mid-fight, to add variety to the combat. They're basically there to pіss you off, yes. I just wish there wouldn't be more than three of them at a time, yeesh.

[Tsukinoki]

New units? Yes please.

 

The rollers are there for a very good reason though. They might be annoying to fight, yes. But from a tactical standpoint, whoever invents something like this is a genius. What better way to tie up enemies defensively so your team could advance unhindered? What better way to force an entire squad out of cover and expose them entirely?

 

Rollers serve a purpose. The reason they're in the game is to force us to switch tactics mid-fight, to add variety to the combat. They're basically there to pіss you off, yes. I just wish there wouldn't be more than three of them at a time, yeesh.

The problem is that they don't force you out of cover.  All they do is take control away from you and have a chance of stunlocking you to death, leading you to only being able to watch as you are shot down without being able to do anything.

The reason that they dont force you out of cover is that most of the time it is simply easier and lest frustrating to go from behind one big box to a pile of small junk that will trap the roller so you can kill it easily.  And isn't being flushed from cover, thats being driver to slightly different cover.  And how is it fun, or good game design, to have an enemy whose main counter is to abuse its pathing and ai?

[Madotsuki]

New units? Yes please.

 

The rollers are there for a very good reason though. They might be annoying to fight, yes. But from a tactical standpoint, whoever invents something like this is a genius. What better way to tie up enemies defensively so your team could advance unhindered? What better way to force an entire squad out of cover and expose them entirely?

 

Rollers serve a purpose. The reason they're in the game is to force us to switch tactics mid-fight, to add variety to the combat. They're basically there to pіss you off, yes. I just wish there wouldn't be more than three of them at a time, yeesh.

There should never be an enemy that does absolutely nothing but piss players off. Plus, flushing people out of cover can be handled by Grenadiers and Torchers, or any other new unit ideas, thus making the Rollers unnecessary. Don't outright remove the Rollers, or nerf their health/speed into oblivion, but they need to be changed. There needs to be more tactics than just cheesing it or running away from it on sight.

[FLSH_BNG]

Rather than doing damage, the heavier rollers could discharge an electric shock that has a significant chance to stun a warframe for a few seconds giving the Grineer a chance to subdue him.

That's esentially what they do now, knocking you around and interrupting your every action while the troopers paint the walls with your brains.

 

This would be more straight forward, and while they're stunning you, they would be stationary so that your friends could easily destroy it.

 

Another thing that this new roller could do as an "unintended" side-effect, is provide a small boost to shield recharge. So while you can't move you will be at a reduced risk of actually taking damage, giving you friends a little more time to help.

It could also lead to interesting tactics, seeking out these rollers when your shields and health are low so you can recharge quicker in a partially covered area.

[MoonicusMaximus]

All good suggestions. Flamers are so buggy and worthless in comparison to Heavy Gunners and the like. I never give their presense anything beyond a passing thought, and treat them like regular Lancers. They should have flamethrowers and essentially be a Grineer unit designed to make Tenno think twice about dashing willy-nilly into Lancer herds. Because Lord knows there are far too many Tenno that do nothing but make figure eights around the room mashing E.

 

But I think Grinders need to be left alone. They are in a good place right now. Your suggestions for "fixing" them make them utterly worthless; completely and utterly nullified by looking at them and holding the block button? The are special units, akin to the Heavy Gunner in terms of adding layers and additional functions to combat situations; they should be treated as such and singled out for what they are, and should be given the same amount of caution.

[se05239]

Your ideas are quite good, so I give you free bump.

[Bibliothekar]

My personal problem with the Torchers: On spaceships and small -stations like the Grineer have them, you only have limited amount of oxygen. So having a flamethrower-unit that literally burns away your breathable air would be an unwise thing and something you would only throw into battle when there's absolutely no hope left. Would give an interesting boss, though.

And when I think about the flamethrower-guys in Borderlands 2 - god, I hate them. Especially when there's more than one at a time.

 

Conclusion: Grineer Torcher sounds like a fun idea - for a boss. But not for a standard unit.

 

But I agree with you, that the Grineer forces need more brains and tactics. I always have the feeling, they are sending their fresh recruits at you for training. The only ones that are a little wiser are their commanders - and those are still to dumb to just switch-teleport away from you when being fired at. To let some random Lancer take the fire and die.

[Madotsuki]

My personal problem with the Torchers: On spaceships and small -stations like the Grineer have them, you only have limited amount of oxygen. So having a flamethrower-unit that literally burns away your breathable air would be an unwise thing and something you would only throw into battle when there's absolutely no hope left. Would give an interesting boss, though.

And when I think about the flamethrower-guys in Borderlands 2 - god, I hate them. Especially when there's more than one at a time.

 

Conclusion: Grineer Torcher sounds like a fun idea - for a boss. But not for a standard unit.

 

But I agree with you, that the Grineer forces need more brains and tactics. I always have the feeling, they are sending their fresh recruits at you for training. The only ones that are a little wiser are their commanders - and those are still to dumb to just switch-teleport away from you when being fired at. To let some random Lancer take the fire and die.

Point taken. And yes, the pyros in BL2 are damn annoying, though not so much for me since i use snipers. A lot. And i do like the idea of a flamethrower boss. But honestly, it doesn't HAVE to be flames. It could be, like, liquid nitrogen (which can do bonus damage to your shields because, apparently, shields are weak to frost damage, and not shock damage), or radioactive waste etc. Of course, these are all just concepts that need to be refined.

[Tsukinoki]

@Madotsuki
Why not have a "torcher" for the 3 elements that make sense to spray out?  Fire, ice, and poison.  Even though a lot of games use this type of "variety" it does serve the purpose of expanding the forces, if even just as a generic type of filler.  It is a bit overused like this though, but that doesn't mean that there is really a problem with doing that.

[Madotsuki]

@Madotsuki

Why not have a "torcher" for the 3 elements that make sense to spray out?  Fire, ice, and poison.  Even though a lot of games use this type of "variety" it does serve the purpose of expanding the forces, if even just as a generic type of filler.  It is a bit overused like this though, but that doesn't mean that there is really a problem with doing that.

I kinda do want "elemental" mobs in the game, but first DE would have to make elements actually DO SOMETHING. Only Freeze damage has something special, being slowing enemies and supposedly doing more damage to shields, which i don't really notice that much. And of course, if freeze damage slowed players if used against them, the slowing can't be as much as on mobs, it'll need a fine balance. Fire and shock damage are nothing but cosmetic with a bit of extra damage thrown in and the chance to stun certain mobs, and do nothing special at all to players. Poison is special in that it ignores shields and hit directly to health i guess. While I think poison should be restricted to Infested, fire/shock or even other elements in the future should be given more interesting effects other than "do more damage against certain factions" and "cool cosmetic effects".

[Second_Measure]

I'd go for adding flash grenades to their stock.

Should come with the disorienting effect of the Ancient Disrupter when it smacks you but without the loss of energy/shields, instead it comes also with a slow that falls off during the duration.

[Tsukinoki]

@Second_Measure
That would be fun, but at the same time make me seriously dislike whatever enemy tosses them out.  Blinding effects can be used to great effects in games, and as long as they prevent the enemies from spamming it it wouldn't be too frustrating.  It would add a target that requires prioritization though.

@Madotsuki
Fire already has a secondary effect of lighting you on fire for some DOT.  And cold deals 2.5x damage to shields making it very nice to bring against corpus along with lightning.

[Madotsuki]

@Second_Measure

That would be fun, but at the same time make me seriously dislike whatever enemy tosses them out.  Blinding effects can be used to great effects in games, and as long as they prevent the enemies from spamming it it wouldn't be too frustrating.  It would add a target that requires prioritization though.

@Madotsuki

Fire already has a secondary effect of lighting you on fire for some DOT.  And cold deals 2.5x damage to shields making it very nice to bring against corpus along with lightning.

I am pretty sure fire does NOT do DOT, on enemies or on players. Unless it's the trap variety where it damages you if you stand on it.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Madotsuki

[Tsukinoki]

@Madotsuki
Looks like you were right, just checked the wiki.  Apparently I was confusing their panic of being on fire and trying to dance around to put it out as dealing damage to them, mostly because they are completely engulfed in flames.

But since that is not in the game they can add DOT to fire effects, even if it is fairly minimal to avoid it from being too powerful.