Advice To De To Let Game Theory Trump Forum Whining

[Emotitron]

Forums are good to hear where people would like to see a game going. They are good for hearing about bugs. They are good for a barometer of where legitimate frustrations are popping up.

 

Forums are notoriously bad at creating great games though, as few people understand game theory, economies or psychological motivations - and largely just want instant gratification even if that gratification will ruin the thing they love.

 

I would suggest to DE to avoid listening to rage posts (which is hard when they often monopolize forums). Develop a theory for what the game is supposed to be and adhere to it. Knee-jerk reactions to users will only damage your game and invite more spoiled behavior.

Claims of something being OP or UP should largely be ignored if statistics exist.
- If a warframe or weapon isn't getting used more or less often than others it needs a tweak

- If an ability or mod are not getting used it may need tweaks

- If players spend most of their time farming one specific material then adjust drop rates or change recipes

Nothing a whiny player says should carry any weight if statistics don't support it, especially if it contradicts sound game theory.

Speaking of game theory, no one should develop a game or try to opine on how a game should work without first watching all of the Extra Credit videos (there are like 100) on youtube... such as this one:

Edited May 18, 2013 by Emotitron

[kenster24]

+1

The whiners are annoying.

Edited May 18, 2013 by kenster24

[ArcSynder]

Yes, yes, and yes

 

...but forum feedback can still be valuable, especially in gauging the immeasurable. 

 

You can talk about game psychology and Skinner boxes all day, but in the end if your players are not responding to mechanics in the desired way, then something is wrong. 

[wgrant]

The whiners are annoying.

While that is true, the whiners are important. They just should not be the driving factor for updates.

[Emotitron]

I am not saying hit a mute button on whining, but listen to it through the ears of game designers with proper vision. It is more important to understand WHY people are whining about something than WHAT they are whining about. Often the solution to the frustration they are asking for is exactly the wrong way to solve the problem - even if the problem is real.

Reacting to malcontents will destroy a game. Listening to people espousing real game theory and ideas that support it can make your jobs easier.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Speaking of game theory, no one should develop a game or try to opine on how a game should work without first watching all of the Extra Credit videos (there are like 100) on youtube... such as this one:

 

Definitely agree and those are really educational and fun-to-watch videos and this is come from an Economics and Management student who doesn't need to know anything about Game Development Science.

 

PS. Watch the ones on Aesthetics of Play, Balancing on Skill, Power Creep and Perfect Imbalance first.

Edited May 18, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[neKroMancer]

I don't agree with Extra credit about certain part of game design but the series is quite good for players and designers alike. At least the player should understand parts of these subjects before posting raging/whining topic. Most of these topics neither have analytic point of view nor the big picture in mind. 

 

Raging/Whining usually means that there is a problem with the game from that person/group's perspective. Making a topic worth reading should be the first thing any posters should try to do and they should also be prepared to receive criticism, something many posters forget doing. 

[Emotitron]

I don't agree with Extra credit about certain part of game design but the series is quite good for players and designers alike. At least the player should understand parts of these subjects before posting raging/whining topic. Most of these topics neither have analytic point of view nor the big picture in mind. 

 

Raging/Whining usually means that there is a problem with the game from that person/group's perspective. Making a topic worth reading should be the first thing any posters should try to do and they should also be prepared to receive criticism, something many posters forget doing. 

 

I have found that the ragers on the forums are often the most wrong. While their frustrations are often very real - the paths to resolution they demand are TERRIBLE and game damaging ideas. It is like trying to build a democracy around an angry mob with a sense of entitlement.

I do agree, if people want to not damage the game they should articulately separate their frustration from their proposed solution.

For example:

- A legit complaint is "I am SO tired of farming the same map over and over for alloy plate"

- A stupid rant is "These new material costs are going to ruin the game, I am going to quit playing if you don't put them back to how they were"

One of them is useful, the other completely disregards the fact that prices and farming times HAVE to change for the game to remain viable in the long run and demands a solution that is completely counter to making a good game.