Old Conclaves Vs. New Conclaves Chp.1 Overall

[Aciaj613]

We don't need one. We don't need another damn thread talking about how "X is terrible, old X was better nyeh nyeh nyeh" without a single modicium of good feedback. What we do need is a constructive discussion on how to reintegrate Conclave 1.0 keeping the best of the honor code while cutting out its bad parts, like not having melee or abilities.

I mean, come on. When was the last time endlessly talking about how terrible something was and not discussing how to improve it made it better?

That is the objective of my future threads. To suggest solutions on each different Aspect the PvP offers and not just to say the old one is better. But I have been rather busy with my school-work so I decided to stagger it over multiple posts. At the end of this one I made a minor suggestion that could possibly bring 1.0 back but I'm still thinking of ways to improve on 2.0. 

 

 

Not to mention, I don't support the honor-code believe it or not. The honor code was just mentioned by other veterans who did follow it. I found many different ways to counter all of these cheap things. But I admired the honor-code and had respect for the conclave community for being able to create a set of rules and follow them.

 

 

This is more of a side note but a few personal examples to countering some cheap tactics/mods that could be considered un-counterable.

 

 

Ogris/Penta/Castanas - Best way to avoid these is to fight your target from the longest distance possible and to make sure that your target does not see you attacking him in most occasions, if stealth cannot be done the next best thing is to constantly stay on the move to avoid the explosions.

 

 

Reflex-Guard - Ogris from what I know was able to go straight through the Reflex guard. A buddy and I did a lot of testing with Reflex guard to see what would beat it. Strangly enough though any other explosive like Penta or Castanas seemed to still fall under the effects. 

 

 

Those are just some examples and in-turn why I didn't follow the honor code so much. Reflex Guard could only be countered by something that was restricted in the conclave community.

 

Now just because I didn't follow the code did not mean I had some sense to know what was irritating to other players. I never commonly carried explosives or anything real cheap.

 

My common Loadout was Frost Prime (Tank Build)  Vulkar/Latron Prime (Used Since Colosseum days), Akbolto/AkVasto/AkMagnus, Dragon Nikana/Glaive Prime/Scoliac/Dual Ether

 

 

What I just listed is a prime example of what I miss about the old conclaves. Just being able to customize your weapon and having not too much restriction. The conclave rating helped prevent some unnecessary power though, that's why Europa was generally more filled than Pluto. Not to mention Europa's map was very Accessible to Parkouring and mobility for all Frames.

 

I'll be sure to explain in better detail some solutions that could possibly be taken a look at rather than just saying the old one was better. I just have to get those other posts up some time when I can work on it.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Aciaj613

[Lyraius]

We don't need one. We don't need another damn thread talking about how "X is terrible, old X was better nyeh nyeh nyeh" without a single modicium of good feedback. What we do need is a constructive discussion on how to reintegrate Conclave 1.0 keeping the best of the honor code while cutting out its bad parts, like not having melee or abilities.

I mean, come on. When was the last time endlessly talking about how terrible something was and not discussing how to improve it made it better?

Please don't mind this comment, I await for Chapter two...  

[Aggh]

The argument goes like this:

Player A - "There's no point in adding conclave 1.0 back because no one would play it

Players B, C, D - "We would play it."

Player A - "Well if they add it back, then the PVP population would be split up."

Players B, C, D - "But you just said no one would play it..."

Player A - "Derp"

 

 

PvP 2.0 has increased the size of the pvp player base significantly.  Compared to 1.0 it is an unquestionable success.  There is no point in putting man hours into something that a tiny minority of player population played.  Any amount of a split in player base is bad when you're trying to redevelop the game mode.  DE has enough feedback to sift through with just 2.0, adding 1.0 feedback on top of that (especially considering some 1.0 players propensity towards wall of text posts) would not make things any easier.

 

 

 

What I just listed is a prime example of what I miss about the old conclaves. Just being able to customize your weapon and having not too much restriction. The conclave rating helped prevent some unnecessary power though, that's why Europa was generally more filled than Pluto. Not to mention Europa's map was very Accessible to Parkouring and mobility for all Frames.

 

The restrictions are temporary, no need to add an entirely separate game mode to alleviate a problem that is already being worked on.

Edited June 11, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed provoking comment

[Auramaru]

 

PvP 2.0 has increased the size of the pvp player base significantly.  Compared to 1.0 it is an unquestionable success.  There is no point in putting man hours into something that a tiny minority of player population played.  Any amount of a split in player base is bad when you're trying to redevelop the game mode.  DE has enough feedback to sift through with just 2.0, adding 1.0 feedback on top of that (especially considering some 1.0 players propensity towards wall of text posts) would not make things any easier.

 

 

 

 

The restrictions are temporary, no need to add an entirely separate game mode to alleviate a problem that is already being worked on.

You're assuming that DE would have to "work" on the old conclave. They put virtually zero effort into conclave 1.0 besides the ingame messages. 

 

And before someone freaks out about what I just said, it's just factual. If you look at all the problems in Conclave 1.0 after Update 14, it was very clear that DE was literally paying no attention to the gamemode - rightfully so, it was a lost cause. 

 

However, this proves my point: once DE adds back conclave 1.0, no balancing or updates are required aside from game-crashing bugs.

 

 

_______________

 

I'd also like to point out that it makes absolutely no sense that there are people who are against this idea. It would affect no one negatively except MAYBE DE, and even that is a stretch considering that old conclave required the maxing out and multi-forma builds of numerous weapons, whereas in this new conclave, people only need buy weapon slots - something they would buy anyway.

 

So we know, statistically, from a business standpoint, that adding the gamemode back is (hypothetically) GOOD FOR BUSINESS AND PLATINUM SALES.

 

 

TL;DR: Conclave 1.0 requires zero maintenance aside from game-crashing bugs, it wouldn't affect the bulk-following of the new conclave, and it would most likely result in a slight increase of plat sales from conclave 1.0 veterans maxing out more weapons.

[Aggh]

You're assuming that DE would have to "work" on the old conclave. They put virtually zero effort into conclave 1.0 besides the ingame messages. 

 

And before someone freaks out about what I just said, it's just factual. If you look at all the problems in Conclave 1.0 after Update 14, it was very clear that DE was literally paying no attention to the gamemode - rightfully so, it was a lost cause. 

 

However, this proves my point: once DE adds back conclave 1.0, no balancing or updates are required aside from game-crashing bugs.

 

 

_______________

 

I'd also like to point out that it makes absolutely no sense that there are people who are against this idea. It would affect no one negatively except MAYBE DE, and even that is a stretch considering that old conclave required the maxing out and multi-forma builds of numerous weapons, whereas in this new conclave, people only need buy weapon slots - something they would buy anyway.

 

So we know, statistically, from a business standpoint, that adding the gamemode back is (hypothetically) GOOD FOR BUSINESS AND PLATINUM SALES.

 

 

TL;DR: Conclave 1.0 requires zero maintenance aside from game-crashing bugs, it wouldn't affect the bulk-following of the new conclave, and it would most likely result in a slight increase of plat sales from conclave 1.0 veterans maxing out more weapons.

Putting it into the game and hooking it up to matchmaking will require actual work.  Having to deal with conclave 1.0 specific crashes would mean extra work.  The amount of players that would actually play it and put money into it would be minimal and wouldn't necessarily so much as break even on the man hours they could potentially have to put into it.

[Auramaru]

Putting it into the game and hooking it up to matchmaking will require actual work.  Having to deal with conclave 1.0 specific crashes would mean extra work.  The amount of players that would actually play it and put money into it would be minimal and wouldn't necessarily so much as break even on the man hours they could potentially have to put into it.

Then I guess we disagree

[S.T.M.P.D]

Then I guess we disagree

What do you mean by Conclave 1.0 exactly? Do you mean a simple Duel mode? Or do you mean a mode with no gear restrictions whatsoever, or gear restrictions as decided by the honor code?

Because I don't think that DE would really want to fully use the honor code as hard gameplay rules; not allowing fundamental parts of Warframe like melee, abilities, revives, etc is something I have a hard time believing they'd want in their game.

[Lord_Noctus]

What do you mean by Conclave 1.0 exactly? Do you mean a simple Duel mode? Or do you mean a mode with no gear restrictions whatsoever, or gear restrictions as decided by the honor code?

Because I don't think that DE would really want to fully use the honor code as hard gameplay rules; not allowing fundamental parts of Warframe like melee, abilities, revives, etc is something I have a hard time believing they'd want in their game.

u could use some abilities and all melee weapons by the honor code and on 2 vs 2 it was allowed to revive but not on 2 vs 1

[S.T.M.P.D]

u could use some abilities and all melee weapons by the honor code and on 2 vs 2 it was allowed to revive but not on 2 vs 1

Huh. Okay.

The question remains: Would a simple Duel mode be acceptable? Or does it need no gear restrictions, or only specific gear restrictions?

[Lord_Noctus]

Huh. Okay.

The question remains: Would a simple Duel mode be acceptable? Or does it need no gear restrictions, or only specific gear restrictions?

good question but wrong person. i would like to stick with what we have and work on conclave 2.0 instead of pushing conclave 1.0 back into the game. the 4 vs 4 have a real future in competetive pvp it just needs polishing.