Trinity Nerf? No Way

[MoonicusMaximus]

DE can take away Trinity's limitless invulnerability and still make her useful through the tweaking of her other skills.

 

Many of the skills in Warframe need to be retooled away from their worthless current iterations.

 

But when it gets down to it, invulnerability in the manner Trinity is able to maintain is something you need to lean on like a crutch. Once it's gone, then they can start making Trinity something other than a one-trick invincible pony.

[ToeSama]

This is my stance on it...

[fishworshipper]

Reason behind nerf wants:

When the healer is better at tanking than the tank then something's wrong.

Link needs to be SLIGHTLY nerfed (best as a cooldown since Trinity has infinite energy), but her other skills also need to be made more useful.

[Bubsters]

lmao share the pain of rhino. You deserve it.

[Judopunch]

How many of you who wants the Trinity Link to be nerfed actually PLAY as a Trinity?

 

Right now, I read people talking about nerfing her third ability - Link.

 

Link supposedly reflects the damage taken to her against the closest enemy (or friend), leaving her invulnerable for a few short seconds (8 as far as I have counted with my card settings - which really isn't all that much)

 

 

Tell me... WHY do you want this ability nerfed?

 

Think about it, what does a Trinity do?

She has absolutely no attack-skills.

 

She can heal - so does the rejuvenation artifact.

She can boost energy - so does energy siphon artifact.

Link - reflects damage towards the enemy (if they attack her, I should Point out)

And of course with her forth ability she heals shield and Life of herself and allies - there are healthpacks for life, and Shields can recharge fast on their own if you aren't persistent to stand in front of the enemy and get shot until you die.

 

 

So..... What purpose does the Trinity serve if she can't do any damage and her abilities can be replaced with artifacts?

(damage of course done with weapons, but I mean damage done by her abilties alone does not exist)

 

Instead of nerfing, you should make her more useful.

 

Besides, the Link is still damageable. Sometiems (probably a bug) she gets hit though Link. And poison seems to still affect her Health through Link and her shield.

 

So really, people, why do you want to NERF everything?

Her kit is bad, she doesnt need a nerf, she needs a rework.

[Jad9]

Complaining about the weakest character in the game? Loki's Invisibility doubles Charge damage from swords, makes him undetectved, 150% normal attacks, and that's also added to crits. HE'S the one that can kill bosses the best. But making a support healing tank into a support damage and tiny absorb damage tank? (quoting from aza's post) I won't lie I do like the barrier idea since it's limited unlike Link, but making her into a banshee-ish multi target support character that can't tank anymore and can get drained out of energy in seconds without any ability to help her get it back? Eh... I don't feel this one, and i'm sure the many others who are &!$$ed off at the fact people are complaining about the weakest character in the game don't either. Also let's not forget that her energy vampire doesn't INSTANTLY restore her energy, it has a percentage leech and you need a high health target that your team won't hoard down in seconds to get energy back.

 

Here's one I haven't seen thought of yet: Instead of complaining about her unstoppable tanking, either take off the immunity to stagger,knockdown, stun, etc... or just make her link into a damage percentage reduction like ember's shield, and this would make more sense because it won't just make her have to use only Link and Energy vampire, It would actually make Well of Life and Blessing useful for once :) I've been reading in wiki that her blessing makes her vulnerable to damage while being casted, i'll check that in a bit on my trinity when I log on after seeing this hot debate... Why would you do that? I'm guessing so you make it so people have to wait 2 extra seconds while in their Link to heal their teammates...? Also, I'm going to agree on azamagon's post again, well of life and energy vampire on single targets just make her useful on bosses only for her team, so those need to be put into multiple enemies, and maybe instead of a cone so you don't get infinite energy as a damage caster, make it level to 2/3/4/5 random enemies with a cost of 10 energy per enemy marked within a radius and  21 energy gain per enemy marked? without increase of energy gained but increase of gain percentage per shot through focus? That way you don't have to press 2 and 3 and spam E or M1 to win, but actually have to use her multiple of her abilities strategically to win?

 

I just don't like how you're turning the two warframes in the game (Loki and Trinity) from strategicly used warframes that require thinking and are good with support/manipulation to unlike everyone's simple minded and demanded ATTACK ATTACK spam warframes, or making people not want to play the warframes that are different than the usual attack spam warframes. I honestly just wish for DE to skip this because it's just a pissing contest between making everyone play the same warframe instead of the few that are different and IMO more fun/strategic. If you really want to look at nerfs, I see vauban on defense with his vortex blocking and killing everything instantly in a doorway for like 10 seconds

Edited May 22, 2013 by Jad9

[Kynian]

Long story short - I (used to) main Rhino.

That said I do have Trinity.

I like Trinity.

And I also thinks Link deserves a nerf.

[unmog]

I'd be all for giving Trinity some more defensive abilities as well, like how volt can deploy a shield in front of him and gives extra electric damage. Or frosts snowglobe. Maybe an area around her that does Area of effect damage to all nearby enemies and restores players health/energy/shields or something. Maybe an ability to increase allies damage for a period of time, or decrease damage recieved by a percent for a longer period of time, some sort of buff like that.

 

I dont think Link is that OP since it has such a short timer, but I agree that I dont think any ability [even rhino's] should give complete immunity to damage. But if it got nerfed I'd say give it an extra effect as well. Like an area around her or something that does other things as well like what I mentioned above.

 

 

 

Edit: I'd also like to note that I agree with a lot of the other posters as well that mention other warframe's abilities. I think a lot of them need improved/fixed/changed somehow to be more useful. And some of them need toned down some to be slightly "less" useful. Mag's pull for example and shield polarize... >.> Plenty of other examples of pretty much useless abilities. Never used Excaliburs super jump either, maybe if it just increased how high my normal jump was for a period of time...

Edited May 22, 2013 by unmog

[Crewell]

First off I have a lvl 30 Trinity. EV-Link is broken, and not for the fact that it basically gives full invulnerability. It's that on bosses with maxed mods it is indefinite. Even Rhino can't keep Iron Skin up like Trinity can keep EV-Link up (granted with a few mods Streamline, Continuity and Flow, Iron Skin can be kept up a veeeeeeeeery long time).

 

The fix is simple. Have Link reflect a portion of the damage instead of 100%. That will force some skill requirements onto the player. The player can no longer just spam the combo on bosses and fire a few rounds/reload while the powers are active. They will have to weave in some healing powers as well.

 

I also agree Well of Life needs to be reworked.

[PaperAlien]

Link supposedly reflects the damage taken to her against the closest enemy (or friend), leaving her invulnerable for a few short seconds (8 as far as I have counted with my card settings - which really isn't all that much)

Oh no, only 8 seconds of complete, sustainable invulnerability? I never heard Rhinos complain about how Iron Skin generally needs energy orbs to sustain usage.

 

Tell me... WHY do you want this ability nerfed?

Because clearly the medic class is supposed to tank and solo bosses. Also, invulnerability on any class is stupid.

 

Think about it, what does a Trinity do?

She has absolutely no attack-skills.

Because she's a medic. You're basically asking why Hammer doesn't beat Paper as well as Scissors.

 

She can heal - so does the rejuvenation artifact. Clearly, the rejuvenation artifact heals at such a significant rate.

She can boost energy - so does energy siphon artifact. Ditto.

Link - reflects damage towards the enemy (if they attack her, I should Point out) And grants complete invulnerability.

And of course with her forth ability she heals shield and Life of herself and allies - there are healthpacks for life, and Shields can recharge fast on their own if you aren't persistent to stand in front of the enemy and get shot until you die. By that argument, let's just remove shields! There are healthpacks for life indeed!

 

 

So..... What purpose does the Trinity serve if she can't do any damage and her abilities can be replaced with artifacts? I don't know, heal teammates and give them back energy way faster than artifacts? The fact that people like you think there's nothing more to Trinity than facetanking and soloing bosses is exactly why Link is a problem.

(damage of course done with weapons, but I mean damage done by her abilties alone does not exist)

Because a frame just has to have a damaging ability, right? Otherwise they'll be completely useless like Loki. Oh wait.

 

Instead of nerfing, you should make her more useful.

This I agree with, it also ties in with my viewpoint that Link needs to be replaced by a completely new skill.

Bold is my responses.

[Grand-Dozer]

I feel that Trinity for the most part has an excellent baseline design for a support Warframe.

One change I would make is, between Link, Energy Vampire, and Blessing these abilities should lock out use of another until the original effect decays. One should still be able to be used while Trinity's "Ultimate" is active.

Link should indeed do a portion of the damage taken back to the attacker (Instead of full) as well as reduce damage taken by a reasonable amount (65%)

A potential rework I have in mind for Energy Vampire is this; when Trinity applies energy vampire on an enemy only her allies can gain energy from damaging the enemy (keeping current functionality) while Trinity herself gains moderate energy regeneration as it leeches a very small amount of health from the enemy converting it into energy, the regeneration effect lasting as long as the enemy lives or until the ability ends (less energy gained than what is capable with Energy Vampire now, but still reasonable enough to warrant using the ability).

Well of Life could grant Trinity an aura that greatly increases shield recharge speed to her and her allies, moderate passive health regeneration to her and her allies, decreasing nearby enemy damage dealt by 5% and a 5% (5%-10%, not sure) damage output boost for its duration. (12 second base duration, range on this ability can be augmented with "Stretch" and potency can be augmented with Focus)

Edited May 22, 2013 by Grand-Dozer

[Meltina]

This is a repost

 

Energy vampire is hard to balance for 2 things A. It costs 50 energy. B. Solo play exists.

 

 

If Vampire does not recover 50 energy is worthless for solo play. With the minimum effectiveness for vampire established then we run into another problem. Ranking it up and mod interaction. This is where we come to the issue of Trinity stacking link and vampire and never running out of energy.

 

 

We should move vampire down to costing 25 energy. We can then nerf vampire to a base of something closer to 35/45/55/65 energy recovered. This makes it come out to a positive energy gain while capping at 84 energy with mods. Then swap link and blessing make link the new 100 energy ultimate. This would force a capped modded trinity to have some down time with the combo costing 88 energy. Vampire also needs so utility for non boss encounters. An aoe debuff would allow the party to effectively use vampire in non boss situations while still giving the trinity a chance to regen their energy back. This would make vampire useable in a solo situation too as you can drain off multiple targets as 35 energy is too low to be effective in a solo situation. This is still too close to invulnerability but it is required to have scaling mean anything and to allow people without maxed strength and efficiency to benefit from the combo.

 

 

 

Vampire needs a fix with power duration. The max energy recovery needs to scale with duration too. With being unable to reapply before the first one ends having a longer duration reduces net energy gain for the party. This does return the perma link combo but with Trinity having no polarity to reduce the power costs of duration, strength, and efficiency. The player deserves something for dedicating 38 of their suits energy to powers.

 

 

 

Blessing despite being powerful on paper is not that effective as most people stack shields. It is rare multiple people are in need of healing and the cast time is too slow to be a combat heal. Adding a rez would give it more utility as reviving a player already recovers full health and shields anyways. I suggest removing well of life and adding the rez properties to blessing and giving Trinity an actual damage ability to round out the skill set. For blessing the scaling invul duration is too weak. Blessing is currently a one point wonder there needs to be more incentive for leveling it. Moving the benefits of blessing to different ranks may help.

 

Rank 0 HP

 

Rank 1 Shield

 

Rank 2 Rez

 

Rank 3 invul

 

 

 

I suggest an aoe damage buff to be the 50 energy skill. Considering Sonar is 400% more damage for 100 energy. The 50 energy buff ability could be 50/85/120/155% bonus damage. This is less than 1/2 the strength as the buff does not require aiming a giant glowing weak point. As a party buff it also forces the Trinity to decide to keep up link or the damage buff with their energy.

 

 

 

So for the new trinity skill set.

 

1. Energy vampire 25 cost 35/45/55/65 base energy recovery cap *power duration recovery cap scaling

 

2. Valour 50 cost 50/85/120/155% party damage buff.

 

3. Blessing 75 cost Hp/shield/rez/invul

 

4. Link. 100 energy Scaling duration.

[SonicDoragon]

This is a repost

 

Energy vampire is hard to balance for 2 things A. It costs 50 energy. B. Solo play exists.

 

 

If Vampire does not recover 50 energy is worthless for solo play. With the minimum effectiveness for vampire established then we run into another problem. Ranking it up and mod interaction. This is where we come to the issue of Trinity stacking link and vampire and never running out of energy.

 

 

We should move vampire down to costing 25 energy. We can then nerf vampire to a base of something closer to 35/45/55/65 energy recovered. This makes it come out to a positive energy gain while capping at 84 energy with mods. Then swap link and blessing make link the new 100 energy ultimate. This would force a capped modded trinity to have some down time with the combo costing 88 energy. Vampire also needs so utility for non boss encounters. An aoe debuff would allow the party to effectively use vampire in non boss situations while still giving the trinity a chance to regen their energy back. This would make vampire useable in a solo situation too as you can drain off multiple targets as 35 energy is too low to be effective in a solo situation. This is still too close to invulnerability but it is required to have scaling mean anything and to allow people without maxed strength and efficiency to benefit from the combo.

 

 

 

Vampire needs a fix with power duration. The max energy recovery needs to scale with duration too. With being unable to reapply before the first one ends having a longer duration reduces net energy gain for the party. This does return the perma link combo but with Trinity having no polarity to reduce the power costs of duration, strength, and efficiency. The player deserves something for dedicating 38 of their suits energy to powers.

 

 

 

Blessing despite being powerful on paper is not that effective as most people stack shields. It is rare multiple people are in need of healing and the cast time is too slow to be a combat heal. Adding a rez would give it more utility as reviving a player already recovers full health and shields anyways. I suggest removing well of life and adding the rez properties to blessing and giving Trinity an actual damage ability to round out the skill set. For blessing the scaling invul duration is too weak. Blessing is currently a one point wonder there needs to be more incentive for leveling it. Moving the benefits of blessing to different ranks may help.

 

Rank 0 HP

 

Rank 1 Shield

 

Rank 2 Rez

 

Rank 3 invul

 

 

 

I suggest an aoe damage buff to be the 50 energy skill. Considering Sonar is 400% more damage for 100 energy. The 50 energy buff ability could be 50/85/120/155% bonus damage. This is less than 1/2 the strength as the buff does not require aiming a giant glowing weak point. As a party buff it also forces the Trinity to decide to keep up link or the damage buff with their energy.

 

 

 

So for the new trinity skill set.

 

1. Energy vampire 25 cost 35/45/55/65 base energy recovery cap *power duration recovery cap scaling

 

2. Valour 50 cost 50/85/120/155% party damage buff.

 

3. Blessing 75 cost Hp/shield/rez/invul

 

4. Link. 100 energy Scaling duration.

And I still say "valour" isn't needed. =P

 

aside that i still argue so long as link has basically "god mode" all one needs to do is vampire enough till your able to energy link combo again.

 

As for my own idea to rework trinity but still keep it's known skills are from an old topic I've replied to as well but altered some.

 

 

Trinity:

Well of life: boost max hp gained per mod rank, affect multiple enemies in an area from initial target (maybe around 5-7 meter radius at max)

Energy Vampire: Same as is (party members gain 100), only reduce what Trinity receives from 100 energy to 65-75 it's clearly meant to be a team skill. Area of effect from initial target same as Well of life, thus multi-targeting as well.

Link: reduce damage to where you only take 30-40% initial damage (you still get hurt just not a lot) and reflect 70-60% of it back to whom ever is linked. suddenly not a tank and it's an emergency skill (probably as intended).

Blessing: at max level revives anyone downed (not dead), otherwise fine. (It should affect escort target's too, but that's just me, they're too squishie)

 

as is, all skills are affected by mods making anyone who seriously puts focus on mods that make a bonus to skills reap a lovely reward, but I think that on all frames.

[FemaleSniper86]

Well considering the Trinity has polarity slots to let her put in Continuity and other useful cards to give her more energy and effectiveness with energy, it is not so very strange that she has those cards in. Is it? Makes sense to me.

 

 

Also... People, the LINK is NOT invulnerable!!!

If I activate Link and run into a Toxic Ancient, her Life gets drained through the shield and through Link. As goes for the crawling greenies too, toxic damage Trinity through the Link.

 

How do you work that out to be "invulnerability"?

 

 

 

Also, while casting Blessing you may well be killed.

Just today I ended up face first into a Toxic Ancient, whom drained me through Link. Then I got immediately cornered by a few doggies and an Ancient Disruptor. My shield drained in a matter of seconds, my Life drained even quicker. I had 94 HP when I started to activate Blessing, and guess what.... I died.

 

Invulnerable?

 

 

Link is probably there because Trinity has no offensive abilities AND coz she has the lowest armour (a measly 10 in armour) along with 3 other warframes.

 

 

 

Rework, yes, but quit Calling the Trinity invulnerable with God-mode abilities.

Edited May 22, 2013 by FemaleSniper86

[Bibliothekar]

Well considering the Trinity has polarity slots to let her put in Continuity and other useful cards to give her more energy and effectiveness with energy,

That would be - polarity. But Trinity has 2x D polarity. Those are fore health and shields, i.e. making her more tankable.

 

Also, while casting Blessing you may well be killed.

Yes, that's a bug right now. I think, it even got confirmed by DE.

[FemaleSniper86]

That would be - polarity. But Trinity has 2x D polarity. Those are fore health and shields, i.e. making her more tankable.

 

Yes, that's a bug right now. I think, it even got confirmed by DE.

 

Fine, her polarity lets her half the Points for vitality and Shields (which she greatly needs) leaving more room to use the Power efficiency and duration cards e.t.c. (yeahyeah so I don't remember all the names of the cards, I can read though)

 

Even if its a bug, it takes off her "invulnerability" so why change it? Gives everyone else one thing less to complain about - only they keep Calling it God-mode and DE calls it an unintentional bug (who knows).

 

 

You call a vulnerability a bug, and complains about invulnerability.

Make up your mind already?

[-TSA-voodoo]

Easy solution: Make the trinity powers to not stack!

Link on a mob? Than no Vamp on it too.

Leave the rest as is.

Fine.

[PiggySaysWhat]

Ya I just want a rework of her. I don't like to play tanks and so don't run my Trin as one despite it being the only real way for her to be optimal at this point. Which means I'm always saddened that unless it's a boss fight I'm pretty much useless, and even then I know I'm making it harder by not just turning link on and being stupid in the boss's face.

 

So, for me the link nerf wouldn't be a big problem-- not just because I've stopped trying to level her outside of boss missions. I'd like to have an actual support frame because that tag was what got me to pick her up with founders plat. Still, I will put out my support for those strong trinitites out there who would have to put up with a nerf to the only ability that doesn't make her a flopping fish frame until the devs get around to changing her to anything else.

[Judopunch]

Her entire kit is toxic and not fun. It is difficult to balance (being generous here), and is lame to play. A rework is most defiantly in order.

[Ferriwind]

Link and Energy Vampire shouldn't be in the same skillset. EVER. Heck, Energy Vampire is so blatantly broken, I wonder why they didn't rework it already.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's likely that Trinity is getting a nice rework.

[Bibliothekar]

You call a vulnerability a bug, and complains about invulnerability.

Make up your mind already?

Who? Me? I haven't complained about a Warframe being invulnerable during casting-animation at any time. Especially if the animation takes some time, invulnerability is a must, if you want to use this ability and don't want to end up dead on the ground. What worth is an ability that forces you to run and hide, before you can use it, and lose precious time?

Or was it more of a "All you people out there"? "You people at DE"?

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's likely that Trinity is getting a nice rework.

If they really rework her and give her a better set of abilities (there are already several great ideas in this thread), I wouldn't be disappointed at all.

[RalfJones]

A rework is fine in theory but DE's execution could either make her even stronger or even more worthless.  There aren't that many Trinities running around even in boss missions because her skills do not pad the leaderboard kill stats at all and most people think it is boring to be a support character in warframe.

 

Everybody either deletes her to get a warframe slot back or leaves her in storage after leveling her to 30.  There are only a small % that use Trinity in all mission types after she has reached level 30. 

 

I am guessing the Trinity population is way smaller than the Rhino population.  Very few people recommend Trinity to others when asked the common question of "What warframe I should get next?"  If you ask DE for warframe usage stats, I am positive that Trinity is not in the upper echelon.  It is so damn easy to use Rhino in all missions without any worries at all.  I laughed when someone said you can go full retard with Rhino because it is so true. 

[nekrojiji]

Link is too overpowered with the curent skills but here's my suggestion:

the first two skills deleted and replaced with this:

<name of skill> - Place a mark on the target and nearby enemies. If the marked targets are attacked, the attacker will be healed by a percent of the damage done. If the attacker has full HP than Power will be restored instead. The mark remains on a target until ?/?/?/?(tweeked by DE for balance) points have been drained from it.


Now a suggestion for fixing the OP problem of Link:

Add this to the skill: Link remains active until ?/?/?/?(tweeked by DE for balance) damage has been reflected.


My first suggestion merged 2 so a new skill must be developed.

Now that she's more vulnerable maybe a damage skill?!

 

 

I play Trinity, and i use Link only  when i see a disrupter wich coudn't been safely sniped, or if there are a lot of poison ancients. For the rest my almost max Seration and Multishot Paris is enough.

Edited May 23, 2013 by nekrojiji

[PositronicSpleen]

I got to thinking, does a healer really have a place in Warframe? It's not a typical MMO. We have regenerating shields and red orbs, and the game is balanced around those for parties that may lack Trinity. More importantly, if healing does become important, you'd see the situation where she becomes mandatory for high level missions, and that's no good. I imagine warframes should be balanced around a gameplay niche first and an "element" second; I think that's why her skills are so fundamentally flawed.

[Adamant_Pariah]

+1 for rework of her ablilites

 

I love my trinity, but its straight boring, she is a life saver. I  have never and will never use link, I dont like tanking in any game, Its just not my playstyle.

 

But as a healer/ support for the squad she does a bad job at it, the only skill that really helps with that role is Blessing.

 

The other 3 are kinda pointless, especially if you not playing with a group of guys you play with daily. 

 

Someone said earlier in this thread about making link a damage ability, like I cast it on a grineer and others around him are affected by it, so by

 

shooting the intial grineer ther other linked one take damage, this is a great idea, fits with the support, your saving ammo that way.

 

But taking this same concept and applying it to well of life and energy vampire, so say at max level four enemies are affected by this in one cast,

 

thats heals and enegry for the entire squad, now before some says " well thats op because you can get all 4 and get back 400 energy instead of 100, 

 

make it so when you get your fill from it you can't collect anymore. This would make her other skills viable choices, because right now I only save the 

 

energy for blessing because its a full heal and everyone gets it, now with everyone getting a bit of health and energy she fits her support role better.