To All Of You Asking For Pvp 1.0 Back, Here's Something To Think About

[elele]

Some of you perhaps haven't thought much about these. And because I like to white knight DE and I'm bored, here goes:

 

if DE does bring PVP 1.0 back as a separate mode, ask yourself, are you satisfied if they bring back PVP 1.0 in a buggy glitchy state (just look at how many bugs PVP 2.0 has)? 

 

If you want DE to polish pvp 1.0 as a separate mode, are you asking DE to develop two PVP modes simultaneously? How much resources and development time can DE spare for two PVP modes? 

 

If you say "just put back in PVP 1.0 as it was!" think about this: --what about new weapons, new frames, new mods? Are they going to be available for this separate PVP 1.0 mode? If yes, how do you think DE can balance something like Simulor against PVP 1.0's Marelok? --At least in PVP 2.0, Simulor (although not the best gun) can at least be used. But if you imagine using it in PVP 1.0, you can at once see it's going to be completely dominated by one-shot Marelok from across the map. 

 

Think about the new players coming in and their first impression: "oh this game has PVP. --Wait there are two PVP modes. Which one should I play? Guess I'll just try one. (Gets in PVP 1.0 mode, rekt by Vauban spam and black energy Loki and Ash BS). This game's PVP is horrible. 0/10 will not play again." 

 

You may have your SFU friends to play with and your friends all know the "honor code". Would you spend time teaching every new player the honor code? What about guys from Russia, China who don't even speak English?  Do they know the honor code? --Actually where can they learn this "honor code"? It's not on the forum, not on Reddit, and as far as I know, nobody in the WF Chinese community even knows about this honor code. 

 

Think about these. 

[TheStag]

I don't see how using a weapon that DE gave better stats against a weapon DE gave worse stats and difficult mechanics is a bug...

PvP 1.0 was primarily Valkyr and Zephyr iirc, with a bit of Ash and Loki. The main "problem" was weapon imbalance, but that is not a bug at all. PvP 2.0 is fun, sure, but there are still some aspects of PvP 1.0 that made it more thrilling and exciting. For example, if you messed up a wall run, copter or shot, you would most likely die. That was the thrill of the game! In PvP 2.0, you can mess up, escape, and get full health and energy to fight again. It seems a bit too lenient in some circumstances.

Is anyone else getting the vibe "butthurt from getting rekt by SFU members in PvP 1.0"? Really... I see no good argument as to why we shouldn't ask for PvP 1.0 back.

...and on the topic of the "Honor Code", it is fairly simple. Don't be cheap. Play fair, fight with skill, win by skill. Yep. The close knit PvP 1.0 community understood this and played like this. It was the fun of fighting and winning by skill that kept people playing.

I think that we should at least be able to have PvP 1.0 fights in the dojo in a room that can generate the old PvP 1.0 maps. It would certainly be nice for the nostalgia and fun. That just my opinion though.

Edited July 15, 2015 by TheStag

[Thalahssalyst]

DE put back 1.0 - Tiny amount of people play it again
                             People got bored because low amount of people play it and its hard to find a match
                             They go to 2.0 Pvp looking for people to play
                            Call that people melee spammers and skills xploiters (lol?) - leave.
Repeat.

 

If they have 2 different type of pvp i dont think it is going to work very well, it doesnt matter, they are going to come back on 2.0 when they was no people to play against.


What they want for 1.0 its a Gun Focus gameplay (a caman, u cant say that is not what all you want) because melee fans damage E mashing spammers easy game mode, or warframe skills xploiters spammers campers energy... guns ok....

 

 

It is going to give 2 things separate for no reason, unnecesary if you ask me...

run and dont look behind...

 

 

 

[TheStag]

DE put back 1.0 - Tiny amount of people play it again

                             People got bored because low amount of people play it and its hard to find a match

                             They go to 2.0 Pvp looking for people to play

                            Call that people melee spammers and skills xploiters (lol?) - leave.

I don't think you understand how many PvP 1.0 players avidly play PvP 2.0. One of the most notable PvP players I can think of, RexSol, played 1.0 and plays 2.0 on a regular basis. He has told me that he thinks melee spamming, skills, and such are fair because DE has made them balanced, or at least a bit more balanced than what they once were. Melee spammers and skill spammers are easy to counter, also. You can shoot them and kill them, or you can deny the skill spammers energy. I don't see the problem.

[Thalahssalyst]

I don't think you understand how many PvP 1.0 players avidly play PvP 2.0. One of the most notable PvP players I can think of, RexSol, played 1.0 and plays 2.0 on a regular basis. He has told me that he thinks melee spamming, skills, and such are fair because DE has made them balanced, or at least a bit more balanced than what they once were. Melee spammers and skill spammers are easy to counter, also. You can shoot them and kill them, or you can deny the skill spammers energy. I don't see the problem.

I have saw a lot, a lot of 1.0 players on 2.0 (i come from 1.0 too), ye RexSol its pretty active right now...

But i say about a lot of topics i see on this forum section, how the 1.0 (or at least some of them) call like that.

I never have problem with melee players, i dont like them, and i dont see actually melee without balance, hell, there are more gun users than melee.

About skills, nothing to say, i like how people play, what people choose, and why.

Just its annonying how you come to the forums, and you see "melee fans damage E mashing spammers easy game mode, or warframe skills xploiters spammers campers energy... 

 

There is nothing too strong or too weak.

[Rakshal]

Okay, and you think about this:

 

There is nothing wrong with having the old conclave nodes back with PvP 2.0 still being in the game. There is nothing wrong with more options. :v

 

Also, meta complaint thread is meta.

[Sonicboom24]

I want to reinforce the idea of keeping the old PVP 1.0 maps in the reincarnation of dojo fights. We need more to do in the dojo anyways, my alliance has dojo fights and having more maps and such is a great way to spice up the dojo. Allowing the dojo this option may also allow a clan to call themselves the X-Tennos and have a danger rooom.....

[Uzpian]

Nothing's wrong with more choices.

 

I don't know about the old 1.0's balancing(does it even have one?) but I like the bow fights there more than 2.0 right now.

[TheStag]

Also, why is this in feedback when it isn't even feedback? Just sayin...

[.Talia.]

 

You may have your SFU friends to play with and your friends all know the "honor code". Would you spend time teaching every new player the honor code? What about guys from Russia, China who don't even speak English?  Do they know the honor code? --Actually where can they learn this "honor code"? It's not on the forum, not on Reddit, and as far as I know, nobody in the WF Chinese community even knows about this honor code. 

Wait a moment, from all these ''bring PvP 1.0 back'' topics in the PvP Feedback, only one is by a SFU (LeoCastillo) all others have nothing to do with my clan. 

Also, the fair play rules were widely known, they were not created by my Clan. These fair play rules didn't need to be stated because they were just common sense. All regular Conclavers knew what was broken and refused to use, because they played for fun. In a part of your topic you describe a Dark Sector Conflict, well that was not Conclave, and all Conclave players despised that game mode. It was utterly broken every one is happy that it doesn't exist anymore, no one is asking that back. They are asking old Conclave back.

Now that we got that out of the way...
 

I still don't like the slow time to kill, and the slower pace, but i have grown to enjoy this new Conclave. You don't see me posting on these topics because i believe this game mode have a future, where the old one was destined to stay the same thing and eventually die out.

That being said, 

In my opinon the PvP is more balanced right now. There is nothing too powerful or too weak, there is nothing that can't be countered. Most PvP 1.0 players don't agree with me, but like TheStag mentioned, in my point of view, everything is fair now.  Although i think some melee and some abilities should be toned down, i think it require less work than trying to balance the old PvP 1.0 Of course this is all just my opinion, i don't pretend to speak on behalf of the entire PvP 1.0 community.

Another thing. PvP 1.0 still exists btw, on Dojo Duels. They just need to add better Dojo Duel rooms and everyone will be happy. I just had a glance at the topics on the first two pages of these subforums, and the people asking for PvP 1.0 back, none of them wants it to replace PvP 2.0...  

Also, this topic is not even Feedback, it is meta-complaint. You are basically complaining about player's complaints.

Edited July 15, 2015 by RexSol

[Auramaru]

Some of you perhaps haven't thought much about these. And because I like to white knight DE and I'm bored, here goes:

 

if DE does bring PVP 1.0 back as a separate mode, ask yourself, are you satisfied if they bring back PVP 1.0 in a buggy glitchy state (just look at how many bugs PVP 2.0 has)? 

 

If you want DE to polish pvp 1.0 as a separate mode, are you asking DE to develop two PVP modes simultaneously? How much resources and development time can DE spare for two PVP modes? 

 

If you say "just put back in PVP 1.0 as it was!" think about this: --what about new weapons, new frames, new mods? Are they going to be available for this separate PVP 1.0 mode? If yes, how do you think DE can balance something like Simulor against PVP 1.0's Marelok? --At least in PVP 2.0, Simulor (although not the best gun) can at least be used. But if you imagine using it in PVP 1.0, you can at once see it's going to be completely dominated by one-shot Marelok from across the map. 

 

Think about the new players coming in and their first impression: "oh this game has PVP. --Wait there are two PVP modes. Which one should I play? Guess I'll just try one. (Gets in PVP 1.0 mode, rekt by Vauban spam and black energy Loki and Ash BS). This game's PVP is horrible. 0/10 will not play again." 

 

You may have your SFU friends to play with and your friends all know the "honor code". Would you spend time teaching every new player the honor code? What about guys from Russia, China who don't even speak English?  Do they know the honor code? --Actually where can they learn this "honor code"? It's not on the forum, not on Reddit, and as far as I know, nobody in the WF Chinese community even knows about this honor code. 

 

Think about these. 

 

You fail to understand that we dealt with all of these things on a daily basis to begin with. Sure, we gave feedback and complained about the bugs: BUT WE STILL PLAYED. 

 

 

 

 

Also, the fair play rules were widely known, they were not created by my Clan. These fair play rules didn't need to be stated because they were just common sense. All regular Conclavers knew what was broken and refused to use, because they played for fun. In a part of your topic you describe a Dark Sector Conflict, well that was not Conclave, and all Conclave players despised that game mode. It was utterly broken every one is happy that it doesn't exist anymore, no one is asking that back. They are asking old Conclave back.

 

 

I want to highlight this. Because I honestly don't think that players OUTSIDE of the Conclave 1.0 community understand this whatsoever... 

 

These "rules" and this "honor code" we keep talking about... you seem to think that it "wasn't common sense", or that it had to be TAUGHT to newer players. 

 

No, it really was common sense. It was as simple as "Wow, this is fun to play with!" or "Wow, this sucks to play against!"

 

You all seem to think that Conclave 1.0's "honor code" was this player-enforced metagame WHEN IN REALITY it was just the rules and meta that everyone came up with on their own.  We literally mean that it was UNSPOKEN. Most/all players came to similar/paralleled rules for the gameplay on their own.

 

I'd like to give an example: Let's say you're playing Minecraft. You have all these cheat codes available to you in creative mode - some that even allow you to beat the game in five minutes. You mess around in creative mode for a little while, but you reach this conclusion that it simply isn't as fun as playing the game normally. You want a challenge. You want to play something that holds meaning.

 

Likewise in old conclave, you would use weapons that gave a challenge to your kills. Sure, you could Shuriken or Bladestorm for the kill... but where's the fun in that? Why just win when you can challenge yourself in a skilled match?

 

On the topic of speaking between both "camps" here, I will leave my thoughts at this: 

-Players who were not a part of the Conclave 1.0 community will never know what it was like. (That is not an insult or bias, that is a FACT)

-No one can possibly know the negative/positive affects of bringing back Conclave 1.0 in some shape/form. It is useless for either side to act like we know.

 

 

The only thing we're going off of here is that one large group of players (1.0 players) wants a gamemode to be added back into the game. Another group of players (2.0 players) are saying that it would negatively impact the game. One of these things is a request for an enjoyable (opinion) gamemode, the other is an argument and assumption against this request stating that it would be a negative addition to the game, DESPITE the clear enthusiasm and desire from a vocal group of players who already said they would LIKE IT.

 

I'm just lost as to how this is even a debate/thread. Never have I seen people denounce the idea of an addition to the game. Even with Dark Sectors...

Edited July 15, 2015 by AuraMau

[cary2010haha1]

 

These "rules" and this "honor code" we keep talking about... you seem to think that it "wasn't common sense", or that it had to be TAUGHT to newer players. 

 

No, it really was common sense. It was as simple as "Wow, this is fun to play with!" or "Wow, this sucks to play against!"

 

You all seem to think that Conclave 1.0's "honor code" was this player-enforced metagame WHEN IN REALITY it was just the rules and meta that everyone came up with on their own.  We literally mean that it was UNSPOKEN. Most/all players came to similar/paralleled rules for the gameplay on their own.

 

I'd like to give an example: Let's say you're playing Minecraft. You have all these cheat codes available to you in creative mode - some that even allow you to beat the game in five minutes. You mess around in creative mode for a little while, but you reach this conclusion that it simply isn't as fun as playing the game normally. You want a challenge. You want to play something that holds meaning.

 

Likewise in old conclave, you would use weapons that gave a challenge to your kills. Sure, you could Shuriken or Bladestorm for the kill... but where's the fun in that? Why just win when you can challenge yourself in a skilled match?

 

 

 

Actually I play old Conclave alot and have over 10K kills.

 

never use those XYZ codes, and don't care, win is win, bladestorm is strong, and those rule have no power to us.

95% I random matching opp. is a ASH or Loki(and i quit of cuz, only I can be the ash, and no one should stealth)

 

A true random matching!!

 

 

Conclave 1.0 with "honor code" is never a origin Conclave 1.0, you guy play too much time with you own group of  " community", and PVP 1.0 origin have too small player base make you most time matching to your friends, these made think your rule is widely recognized but actually not.

 

​it's a illusion

[Auramaru]

Actually I play old Conclave alot and have over 10K kills.

 

never use those XYZ codes, and don't care, win is win, bladestorm is strong, and those rule have no power to us.

95% I random matching opp. is a ASH or Loki(and i quit of cuz, only I can be the ash, and no one should stealth)

 

A true random matching!!

 

 

Conclave 1.0 with "honor code" is never a origin Conclave 1.0, you guy play too much time with you own group of  " community", and PVP 1.0 origin have too small player base make you most time matching to your friends, these made think your rule is widely recognized but actually not.

 

​it's a illusion

Well hold on, may I guess the region you played in then?

 

Europe. (The ungoverned state of conclave, no one followed the rules here)

 

I played public all day every day in all regions, I was only ever bladestormed TWICE in over 4,000 matches. So based off of my observations: you were either Europe region, or you're lying.

Edited July 15, 2015 by AuraMau

[elfkinn]

Some of you perhaps haven't thought much about these. And because I like to white knight DE and I'm bored, here goes:

 

if DE does bring PVP 1.0 back as a separate mode, ask yourself, are you satisfied if they bring back PVP 1.0 in a buggy glitchy state (just look at how many bugs PVP 2.0 has)? 

 

If you want DE to polish pvp 1.0 as a separate mode, are you asking DE to develop two PVP modes simultaneously? How much resources and development time can DE spare for two PVP modes? 

 

If you say "just put back in PVP 1.0 as it was!" think about this: --what about new weapons, new frames, new mods? Are they going to be available for this separate PVP 1.0 mode? If yes, how do you think DE can balance something like Simulor against PVP 1.0's Marelok? --At least in PVP 2.0, Simulor (although not the best gun) can at least be used. But if you imagine using it in PVP 1.0, you can at once see it's going to be completely dominated by one-shot Marelok from across the map. 

 

Think about the new players coming in and their first impression: "oh this game has PVP. --Wait there are two PVP modes. Which one should I play? Guess I'll just try one. (Gets in PVP 1.0 mode, rekt by Vauban spam and black energy Loki and Ash BS). This game's PVP is horrible. 0/10 will not play again." 

 

You may have your SFU friends to play with and your friends all know the "honor code". Would you spend time teaching every new player the honor code? What about guys from Russia, China who don't even speak English?  Do they know the honor code? --Actually where can they learn this "honor code"? It's not on the forum, not on Reddit, and as far as I know, nobody in the WF Chinese community even knows about this honor code. 

 

Think about these. 

Do you realize that they dont even need to polish PvP 1.0 It was already made and working fine, we didnt care about balance all we cared about was being able to play a pvp mode without any restrictions, like this wateed down slow motion nerfed to hell PvP. The only rule of the honor code was dont use powers, all they would have to do would add the same affect a nulifier bubble has in that area or just keep energy from spawning. It would take anywork from them other than to release another button for you to click in matchmaking called hardcore PvP(PvP 1.0). We arent asking for PvP 2.0 to be removed, we just want the option to play PvP 1.0.

Edited July 15, 2015 by elfkinn

[cary2010haha1]

Well hold on, may I guess the region you played in then?

 

Europe. (The ungoverned state of conclave, no one followed the rules here)

 

I played public all day every day in all regions, I was only ever bladestormed TWICE in over 4,000 matches. So based off of my observations: you were either Europe region, or you're lying.

very simple, you just need to tell me why DS PVP have same power/weapon/HP mechanism to the "node PVP", if your honor code is " widely recognized ", why no one followed it in the DS PVP? (very sure more player have participated the DS PVP than "node PVP 1.0")

[.Talia.]

very simple, you just need to tell me why DS PVP have same power/weapon/HP mechanism to the "node PVP", if your honor code is " widely recognized ", why no one followed it in the DS PVP? (very sure more player have participated the DS PVP than "node PVP 1.0")

Its simple, because it had rewards. Players will not follow any kind of rules if there is a dark sector node in the dispute, players will do everything they can to win.

[Auramaru]

very simple, you just need to tell me why DS PVP have same power/weapon/HP mechanism to the "node PVP", if your honor code is " widely recognized ", why no one followed it in the DS PVP? (very sure more player have participated the DS PVP than "node PVP 1.0")

1) DS PVP had credits on the line and drew in a non-conclaver crowd. Simply put: the vast majority of people who played DSPVP did not play Conclave and vice versa.

2) That has nothing to do with the request of old conclave's return.

3) You avoided my question: Were you of Europe region in Conclave 1.0?

[cary2010haha1]

 

3) You avoided my question: Were you of Europe region in Conclave 1.0?

I do PVP before they have nodes, do you know when is that:P

 

but i never follow any codes.

[elfkinn]

very simple, you just need to tell me why DS PVP have same power/weapon/HP mechanism to the "node PVP", if your honor code is " widely recognized ", why no one followed it in the DS PVP? (very sure more player have participated the DS PVP than "node PVP 1.0")

You just asked a pointless question DS PVP didnt have the same hp or energy mechanic, hp and energy dropped from enemies, and people didnt follow it in DS PVP because that wasnt PVP 1.0 that wasnt dueling, like conclave 2.0 or 1.0 that was a mess of a game mode and a failure, because it allowed 4 spam, the only real issue in warframe pvp is powers, and the new added issue of balancing weapons till theya re useless in pvp 2.0

[Auramaru]

I do PVP before they have nodes, do you know when is that:P

 

but i never follow any codes.

I'm talking about gameplay region, not the planetary node. Check your gameplay settings for region. Better yet - what country you are from.

[cary2010haha1]

I'm talking about gameplay region, not the planetary node. Check your gameplay settings for region. Better yet - what country you are from.

Europe

[Auramaru]

Europe

Case and point: you had no honor code. It was part of your region. Not sure what it was... but Europeans didn't seem to care much about the honor... just as you said: "whatever it takes to win" 

 

(I swear, I'm not saying this is a stereotype... it really was something about your region. Can someone vouche for me here?)

[JonBenj]

I can back Auramau up - Europe was the worst for unfairplay and ignorance of the honor code. I played often in public matches.

Edited July 15, 2015 by JonBenj

[cary2010haha1]

Case and point: you had no honor code. It was part of your region. Not sure what it was... but Europeans didn't seem to care much about the honor... just as you said: "whatever it takes to win" 

 

(I swear, I'm not saying this is a stereotype... it really was something about your region. Can someone vouche for me here?)

 

 

I can back Auramau up - Europe was the worst for unfairplay and ignorance of the honor code. I played often in public matches.

so now you two become insulting a whole region have no honor & unfair? @DE modder check this out.

 

If we use a hack, that's dishonor because thats something outside the game, we using all thing DE provided items in the game how can that be "dishonor" ? We can use same item how can that be unfair?

 

 

 

even its unbalance it's just the game mode which provided by DE

Edited July 15, 2015 by cary2010haha1

[JonBenj]

Hey Cary. Seeing as though you were hellbent on winning, what was your general loadout for Pvp before 2.0?