Umbra Vs Prime

[LordOfScrugging]

"I care more about my image in an online game rather than trying to improve the game for others." You're welcome to return the plat from those packages if you think the only value was those weapons. 

lol i find it funny that you think i care about my "image" i'm just saying, that nobody would appreciate that something worth that much money would later be shelved due to a very similar item that out classes it.

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

The late and skana primes were never supposed to be endgame level gear, but excalibur prime only marginally better at the time of release (like 2% faster shield regen) it was expected that it would basically be the same thing as normal excal and wouldn't be strictly outclassed by a new type or frame that has literally never been hinted at.

 

At the time sure. But are we solidifying the fact that Prime will forever be the "best" in Warframe? I personally won't make that accusation unless I hear it straight from DE's mouth. And even then, I recall at the beginning Prime was only meant to be synonymous with a different look, the death orb interaction and free forma. Frost Prime's description: Frost Prime has the same chilling abilities as Frost but its altered mod polarities offer different possibilities for customization. It is also rumored that this Warframe has a unique reaction to certain Orokin technology. Obviously that's not the case anymore. 

 

But I understand wanting to show off exclusive bling, but I only agree if it is something cosmetic. Which I understand to be the gripe of some people.

 

I suppose the question then turns into: Are you more worried about losing your image as a founder online or having your gear outclassed this late into the game? The latter has already happened with the current weapons available. 

[LordOfScrugging]

At the time sure. But are we solidifying the fact that Prime will forever be the "best" in Warframe? I personally won't make that accusation unless I hear it straight from DE's mouth. And even then, I recall at the beginning Prime was only meant to be synonymous with a different look, the death orb interaction and free forma. Frost Prime's description: Frost Prime has the same chilling abilities as Frost but its altered mod polarities offer different possibilities for customization. It is also rumored that this Warframe has a unique reaction to certain Orokin technology. Obviously that's not the case anymore. 

 

But I understand wanting to show off exclusive bling, but I only agree if it is something cosmetic. Which I understand to be the gripe of some people.

 

I suppose the question then turns into: Are you more worried about losing your image as a founder online or having your gear outclassed this late into the game? The latter has already happened with the current weapons available. 

the thing about primes is, when they came out, the definition of prime was different than it is now. before prime = different helm, maybe a forma or 2, and death orb interaction. now prime = different skin and helm, higher stats, death orb interation and maybe a forma or 2. Now throw umbra into the mix. it is an unnecessary thing, it should only be a side grade, seeing as it is a limited series, be it in quantity or time. to make it an upgrade of even primes, it will be about the same level as foundership with everyone complaining once it leaves. 

 

to make it clearer, i DON'T care if it comes out. i know it has higher stats, so i said buff prime to match non founders get a frame to equal prime and founders get a buff. death orb interaction is a no go since it isn't prime though.

[The_Raall]

At the time sure. But are we solidifying the fact that Prime will forever be the "best" in Warframe? I personally won't make that accusation unless I hear it straight from DE's mouth. And even then, I recall at the beginning Prime was only meant to be synonymous with a different look, the death orb interaction and free forma. Frost Prime's description: Frost Prime has the same chilling abilities as Frost but its altered mod polarities offer different possibilities for customization. It is also rumored that this Warframe has a unique reaction to certain Orokin technology. Obviously that's not the case anymore. 

 

But I understand wanting to show off exclusive bling, but I only agree if it is something cosmetic. Which I understand to be the gripe of some people.

 

I suppose the question then turns into: Are you more worried about losing your image as a founder online or having your gear outclassed this late into the game? The latter has already happened with the current weapons available. 

excalibur prime is just cosmetic if umbra is better than it and worse, prime looks a lot uglier than umbra. I'm starting to think it might have been better just keep it as Chinese exclusive and never to give it to us

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

lol i find it funny that you think i care about my "image" i'm just saying, that nobody would appreciate that something worth that much money would later be shelved due to a very similar item that out classes it.

 

And the misconception I see is that people seem to think the only value from those packages were the weapons and frame. The plat alone was worth what you paid, not to mention the extras that came with the higher tiers. The people that only value the exclusivity of the gear fortifies my statement that they care more about "looking like a founder" to others online rather than improving the game in areas that might conflict with that gear. Like simply owning something very little people have isn't enough. But that's just my opinion, I'm no psychiatrist.

 

Back on topic, I would still like Excalibur Umbra to at least match Excalibur Prime stat-wise with the death orb energy. That much shouldn't raise concerns like what you posted.  

[LordOfScrugging]

And the misconception I see is that people seem to think the only value from those packages were the weapons and frame. The plat alone was worth what you paid, not to mention the extras that came with the higher tiers. The people that only value the exclusivity of the gear fortifies my statement that they care more about "looking like a founder" to others online rather than improving the game in areas that might conflict with that gear. Like simply owning something very little people have isn't enough. But that's just my opinion, I'm no psychiatrist.

 

Back on topic, I would still like Excalibur Umbra to at least match Excalibur Prime stat-wise with the death orb energy. That much shouldn't raise concerns like what you posted.  

like i said above, stats equal = alright, death orb = no go. it isn't a prime. 

[The_Raall]

And the misconception I see is that people seem to think the only value from those packages were the weapons and frame. The plat alone was worth what you paid, not to mention the extras that came with the higher tiers. The people that only value the exclusivity of the gear fortifies my statement that they care more about "looking like a founder" to others online rather than improving the game in areas that might conflict with that gear. Like simply owning something very little people have isn't enough. But that's just my opinion, I'm no psychiatrist.

 

Back on topic, I would still like Excalibur Umbra to at least match Excalibur Prime stat-wise with the death orb energy. That much shouldn't raise concerns like what you posted.  

NO, excalibur umbra is not excalibur prime. you can't have these at same standing. they should be different from each other.

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

like i said above, stats equal = alright, death orb = no go. it isn't a prime. 

 

Death orb energy is simply a reaction with orokin technology as per Frost's (and others) description. Whose to say the Umbra suits can't achieve the same result? 

[The_Raall]

Death orb energy is simply a reaction with orokin technology as per Frost's (and others) description. Whose to say the Umbra suits can't achieve the same result? 

Prime = made in void. umbra = made in china.

 

EDIT: was meant as joke not as any rudeness against china. just read it again few times and thought it might sound that way. sry for everyone that was offended by it

Edited August 24, 2015 by BrotherLeluchio

[Monster-T]

like i said above, stats equal = alright, death orb = no go. it isn't a prime. 

Yeah, let us put the only opportunity to rest to give non-founders a stat- and function wise equal Excal... siriously?

Its about equality and fairness and everything you have to say is "no deathorb mechanic because of no prime". Do you know that this mechanic doesnt even have a lore-background? We dont even know yet what the lore background of Umbra is exactly - and maybe Umbra is a copy of those old Primes. So please, dont argue with things that arnt even confirmed yet.

[The_Raall]

Yeah, let us put the only opportunity to rest to give non-founders a stat- and function wise equal Excal... siriously?

Its about equality and fairness and everything you have to say is "no deathorb mechanic because of no prime". Do you know that this mechanic doesnt even have a lore-background? We dont even know yet what the lore background of Umbra is exactly - and maybe Umbra is a copy of those old Primes. So please, dont argue with things that arnt even confirmed yet.

so you are implying that DE should give everyone excalibur prime with better looks, different name and for cheaper?

[Monster-T]

so you are implying that DE should give everyone excalibur prime with better looks, different name and for cheaper?

"better looks" is subjective.

"for cheaper" implies that founders have buyed their acces only because of Excal Prime, which isnt true and beside that... the real money price shouldnt matter in a f2p game.

So I'm implying that DE should give everyone an Excal Prime with a different name and a different look.

[The_Raall]

"better looks" is subjective.

"for cheaper" implies that founders have buyed their acces only because of Excal Prime, which isnt true and beside that... the real money price shouldnt matter in a f2p game.

So I'm implying that DE should give everyone an Excal Prime with a different name and a different look.

that's just wrong. founders should have their own fun little things we can't go to DE and just to say "gimme". 

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

that's just wrong. founders should have their own fun little things we can't go to DE and just to say "gimme". 

 

And they do. We aren't asking for the key faced excal prime and the skana prime and lato prime (at least I'm not). All we want is alternatives. Something that compares functionally but still distinguishes founder and non-founder. Umbra Excal is almost the opposite color scheme of Excal Prime. You'd know if someone was a founder if you have two Excals and one of them is an Excal Prime. The recognition is still there (the purpose of "exclusivity"), and the not-so-lucky ones don't have to feel like their playable character (remember this isn't just a skin) is inferior. 

 

This umbra series is the perfect solution for that. Follow that up with Umbra series going to current non-primes, and you have my support again DE. 

[Wotca]

so you are implying that DE should give everyone excalibur prime with better looks, different name and for cheaper?

Before the recent Excal buffs everyone had the same Excal as founders with different looks and a different name and cheaper.  It is called Excal (just normal).  It was fine then.

 

[The_Raall]

And they do. We aren't asking for the key faced excal prime and the skana prime and lato prime (at least I'm not). All we want is alternatives. Something that compares functionally but still distinguishes founder and non-founder. Umbra Excal is almost the opposite color scheme of Excal Prime. You'd know if someone was a founder if you have two Excals and one of them is an Excal Prime. The recognition is still there (the purpose of "exclusivity"), and the not-so-lucky ones don't have to feel like their playable character (remember this isn't just a skin) is inferior. 

 

This umbra series is the perfect solution for that. Follow that up with Umbra series going to current non-primes, and you have my support again DE. 

DE said that excalibur prime won't come again. If umbra is as good or better then it would seem like very bad loophole. even if they did gain your support again they would lose many others... for good

[Monster-T]

DE said that excalibur prime won't come again. If umbra is as good or better then it would seem like very bad loophole. even if they did gain your support again they would lose many others... for good

Which support will they loose? And because of what? Because of an unbroken promise they gave? Come on...

 

[The_Raall]

Before the recent Excal buffs everyone had the same Excal as founders with different looks and a different name and cheaper.  It is called Excal (just normal).  It was fine then.

 

difference was interaction with death orbs in void but otherwise they were same but that was in the past where primes had no buffs to compare to originals but now every new prime gets buffs over the original. besides ppl always were screaming for excalibur prime in past even with that small buff over original.

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

DE said that excalibur prime won't come again. If umbra is as good or better then it would seem like very bad loophole. even if they did gain your support again they would lose many others... for good

 

Excalibur Prime won't be coming back, but that doesn't mean improvements to him cannot be made in the forms of other suits. That will be limiting DE on their creativity for the future of Warframe and that's a pretty selfish thing to do. It's new content like that that provides revenue for them.  

 

EDIT because more grammer. Stay in school kids. 

Edited August 24, 2015 by (XB1)BAMMM Lightning

[The_Raall]

Excalibur Prime won't be coming back, but that doesn't mean improvements to him cannot be made in the forms of other suits. That will be limiting DE on their creativity for the future of Warframe and a pretty selfish thing to do. It's new content like that that provides revenue for them.  

shouldn't it be rising their creativity? like who wants DE to think "give it same stats as excalibur prime" or "make it better than excalibur prime". rather than that I would want DE that thinks "what makes this different from excalibur prime".

[LordOfScrugging]

Excalibur Prime won't be coming back, but that doesn't mean improvements to him cannot be made in the forms of other suits. That will be limiting DE on their creativity for the future of Warframe and that's a pretty selfish thing to do. It's new content like that that provides revenue for them.  

 

EDIT because more grammer. Stay in school kids. 

What you are saying here is, "yea let's improve the existing prime........by making a completely new suit, making it better than the existing one, give it the same benefits, and change the name to avoid any sort of backlash." seems legit.

 

just because he isn't coming back, doesn't give the green light to throw him in the trash ._.

[The_Raall]

just because he isn't coming back, doesn't give the green light to throw him in the trash ._.

the sentence I wanted to hear :)

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

shouldn't it be rising their creativity? like who wants DE to think "give it same stats as excalibur prime" or "make it better than excalibur prime". rather than that I would want DE that thinks "what makes this different from excalibur prime".

 

Well, with the fact that we haven't even discussed the moveset that would accompany this Umbra series, the stats alone seem to give people the "loophole" knee-jerk reaction, as is apparent from your replies and others I have read.

 

If they have to constantly dance around eggshells when it comes to Excalibur and any future series of suits, how can you expect creativity with the possibility of one side shouting "Loophole! Loophole!"?

[The_Raall]

Well, with the fact that we haven't even discussed the moveset that would accompany this Umbra series, the stats alone seem to give people the "loophole" knee-jerk reaction, as is apparent from your replies and others I have read.

 

If they have to constantly dance around eggshells when it comes to Excalibur and any future series of suits, how can you expect creativity with the possibility of one side shouting "Loophole! Loophole!"?

isn't it ppl like you that are ruining their creativity by saying that umbra should have same stats as prime? and yes they should be afraid of word loophole very much.

[LordOfScrugging]

Well, with the fact that we haven't even discussed the moveset that would accompany this Umbra series, the stats alone seem to give people the "loophole" knee-jerk reaction, as is apparent from your replies and others I have read.

 

If they have to constantly dance around eggshells when it comes to Excalibur and any future series of suits, how can you expect creativity with the possibility of one side shouting "Loophole! Loophole!"?

the moveset will be the same, i can see maybe a different particle effect on maybe slash dash or something. but no new moveset. (why bother making a new moveset for an existing frame when they could easily make an all new frame?!) 

 

It's easy to shout loophole, i've seen plenty of people try to find them to justify some sort of re-release, to always be shut down. what you are effectively asking for is a loophole of sorts. you've literally been asking for an improved copy of excal prime with death orb functionality included.