Kunai Rebalance.

[ssxtriki]

wtf is wrong with you lot, nerf this! balance that!, WHO CARES ITS A PVE GAME....  have fun, throw some knives, shoot some stuff. GG

 

 

I really do not understand it too. When HEK was nerfed you cry. When you got good weapon you cry. WTF guys? Just enjoy it.

 

i think they will never be satisfied, always crying over everything

 

its like women always looking for a problem thats not even there

 

Edited May 26, 2013 by ssxtriki

[neKroMancer]

This is very bad idea for any weapon in any game. This is because i don't use akbolto and hate shotguns.

When u press button gun must shoot. If it's not shootin, f*ck it.

I feel myself like a dumb &#! when pushin LMB rapitedly.

And it's worst decision.

DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Kunai is more related to Paris which is another silent, projectile weapon. The fact that it has a clip is already strane. You're throwing a knives, not shooting a gun. If it's a dart gun with clip then it'd be fine, totally fine.

What I proposed isn't even exactly a nerf but a balancing to make it more thematic without eclipsing other pistols.

[Kuari]

Kunai are fun as is, just leave them.

My pistol is still better then my lvl30 Kunai, plus i get more rounds before reloading and such.

 

just deal with it, this is a very small thing.

 

What happened to make you hate them?

someone play a low lvl map with a high level kunai?

[Irrialite]

You're all forgetting that kunai can't crit, effectively making them a pretty bad end-game weapon. Once you polarize weapons that can crit, you can spend more points on improving their damage than you can on kunai (crit % and crit dmg %). It's not a bad weapon but it's far from the best sidearm.

[ShAd0wF1AmE]

As others said any weapon can be made to be "OP," even moreso with the release of the Forma system. Also, Kunai cannot land critical hits. They may feel a bit OP for the early levels, but other weapons catch up at later levels. Nerfing the Kunai would only serve to cause chaos among the community... *points at Rhino nerf*

[TheSmash]

You're all forgetting that kunai can't crit, effectively making them a pretty bad end-game weapon. Once you polarize weapons that can crit, you can spend more points on improving their damage than you can on kunai (crit % and crit dmg %). It's not a bad weapon but it's far from the best sidearm.

Who needs crits when you're already dealing almost 400 damage per shot with mods?

[ChickenBar]

Comparing this weapon to other pistols, it's insane performance compared to the rest of it's brothers.

saying it outperforms other pistols and such. NO, I bought them for stealth runs (and that's what others should be doing), damage is a must and fire rate is the least of my concerns. But I still prefer my Aklato for normal combat. Why? Because of the sheer effective range of a pistol and the large ammo pool! You feel like having these two advantages with Kunai?

At the meantime, why don't y'all concern about the silencing issue of the Kunai, before nerfing this fun little gadget to fire?

Edited May 26, 2013 by ChickenBar

[Irrialite]

Who needs crits when you're already dealing almost 400 damage per shot with mods?

You can do more than that with other weapons when polarized properly.

 

Anyway, gj missing the point.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Irrialite

[pixelsafoison]

so they make a fun toy and you want them to turn it into pure poop? Give me back my downvote button, too many people failing to understand the meaning of fun in a game

[ra9una]

The moment I started playing with these I thought to my self "Oh please don't let these be nerfed" and sure enough people want them nerfed, or "balanced". Now I will admit, these are impressive and they do a good deal of damage with decent fire rate and ammo etc But they are hard to aim with which is a down side, a small one I suppose but still enough to say this isn't the best weapon in every way.

 

In my opinion, it shouldn't be nerfed, this comes both from personal opinion and the fact that the kunai are meant to be a good weapon...and they are, that's how it's supposed to be. Besides, from a marketing stand point the demand for them not to be nerfed seems pretty high.

I already mentioned Akabolto in the OP. it require a lot more crafting in order to make a pair of this baby. Two Bolto, then combining them into one Dual. It's supposed to reflect the amount of time and resource spent making one.

Kunai can be obtained with half the effort.

Then make the Kunai harder to make, that seems fair. From what you say that would make them balance right? Double or triple the required mats add forma if you want to make it really hard, and there you go, weapon stays fun and becomes "fair", no need for all the other mechanic tweeks.

As far as I know, Despair has whopping 10 more damage without any disadvantage. Pretty severely bad design choice when the game decide to release two versions of the same weapon and one has clearly superior stat.

To me, balancing two Kunais is about making both of them roughly deal the same damage per clip (if it's going to stay as it is). Kunai deals 450 damage per clip (45*10 base stat) then Despair should deal the same damage per clip, decrease clipsize to 8 (rounded down from 8.18).

I would just like to point out that the Despair is supposed to be a BETTER weapon, than the kunai, one you have to work for and one that, and I quote  is " supposed to reflect the amount of time and resource spent making one." 

 

wtf is wrong with you lot, nerf this! balance that!, WHO CARES ITS A PVE GAME....  have fun, throw some knives, shoot some stuff. GG

Couldn't agree more.

 

Kunai is more related to Paris which is another silent, projectile weapon. The fact that it has a clip is already strane. You're throwing a knives, not shooting a gun. If it's a dart gun with clip then it'd be fine, totally fine.

What I proposed isn't even exactly a nerf but a balancing to make it more thematic without eclipsing other pistols.

This is a game about space ninjas, shooting up mini robot walkers and running up wall, being indivisible and apparently controlling sound waves...if we have the technology to do all that I'm pretty sure we've got some king of sleeve re-tractor thing that lets us hold at least 10 knives in are hands. Oh and please don't take this argument too seriously, I'm just kidding around, but I don't think that hard hitting logic and resemblance with the real world is the goal of this game but rather pure bad-assery...though that's just how I see it.

[aTaVaX]

To be fair, both versions are arguable cheap to make. Despair seems slightly more expensive than the Kunai because it requires Alloy Plates. Besides, it gives you more Mastery if you level both up. You may as well make the Kunai, level them to 30, and if you get Despair (good luck with that since the Stalker's drop rates are pretty broken) then sell the Kunai and swap over.

And I don't know about you, but I think the Kunai are very fun to use. I don't mind leveling both versions.

 

only leveling to 30 isn't much work and you're right, you do get to level up your mastery. But more like, i wouldn't potato or forma them. also, leveling can be a bit annoying if you don't potato, fairly weak for fairly long.

[neKroMancer]

Kuari, on 26 May 2013 - 9:45 PM, said:

Kunai are fun as is, just leave them.

My pistol is still better then my lvl30 Kunai, plus i get more rounds before reloading and such.

just deal with it, this is a very small thing.

What happened to make you hate them?

someone play a low lvl map with a high level kunai?

No I play the weapon by myself and found that I can down lv30 ancient with lv10 Kunai which has only one mod equipped, 100% damage pistol mod. One clip can take that down without headshotting it.

Lex can't do it, Lato vandal can't do it. Automatic weapons within pistol category can't do it. Actually, no other pistol can do the same thing. You don't even need crit damage, just put multishot 100% + max pistol damage into it and you're done.

The underlying problem is the armor-ignoring capability + high damage + autofiring. Honestly, my proposal will slow things down a bit with charge mechanic.

Look like I just pick a right weapon to start a long topic. This thing is the new Hek.

[Guest]

It's only really destructive if you give it the time to shine and lvl it.

My Kunai are lvl30 and still, my lvl30 lato vandel beats them.

and yes, my kunai have every mod that i think would be good on them

all dmg mods with a couple others.

 

I can hit 3-400 dmg pershot with my lato, plus it has a multi shot 100%

so I'm hitting about 800 dmg a shot, with 15 shots.

 

Taken into account, I've worked for a while to refine my lato.

 

It basically goes to show, ANY weapon can be op with enough time and effort.

[TheDoctah]

No. More. Nerfing. Jesus

I just want to slap every single nerf topic I see, do people enjoy using weak weapons?

Edited May 26, 2013 by TheDoctah

[ra9una]

I forgot to add that the Despair do 1/2 damage to infested (Not sure about kunai) which also gives situational advantage to many other pistols.

 

And just a thought on nefs in general, I have nothing against the game being balanced, in fact one of the things I most like about the game is how you can choose weapons based of play style rather than stats. But if everything is perfectly balanced it does take away from the game cause you start with the best weapon (there all the same right? Statistically speaking) So having some weapon slightly better does add to the game since you have goals and such. And the kunai can be applied to this since there not so dramatically over powered that no other weapon in the game can ever out preform it..Just a thought.

[ItalianPlumber]

The problem isn't the weapon, it's that it has two V-polarity slots.

 

Almost every other weapon can be just as devastating with high levels or a potato, but the Kunai can get all they need to murder faces without a Forma or Catalyst at around level 15 with Hornet Strike and Multishot.

 

The best way to 'balance' it would be to remove one of the V polarities. Simple.

[fishworshipper]

You guys seem to forget the Kunai are supposed to be STEALTH weapons.

When, in any stealth scenario ever, are you going to need to shoot 20 Kunai rapid-fire?

At the very minimum, slowing down the fire-rate makes sense.

[aTaVaX]

i like the rapid fire feel,  i would rather have the clip size decreased or the reload speed increased than the fire rate lowered. 

 

also, the fact remains it is harder to use and less forgiving then just about any other weapon in the game. So while the potential damage is higher, the actual damage can be quite a bit lower for most people...

Edited May 26, 2013 by aTaVaX

[jrkong]

Before we go nuts over the Kunai being OP why don't we wait for people to get the new clan weapons? The words "rocket launcher" has OP rage written all over it.

[Enomilli]

Kunai are assault stealth weapons...they are meant to balance out with the Paris and Dread thus being oriented around stealth and assault..

 

Use your brains and look at what they are supposed to be accompanied with before screaming nerf..

 

The learning curve on this weapon is steep enough...

Edited May 27, 2013 by Ystella

[jrkong]

Kunai are assault stealth weapons...they are meant to balance out with the Paris and Dread thus being oriented around stealth and assault..

 

Use your brains and look at what they are supposed to be accompanied with before screaming nerf..

 

The learning curve on this weapon is steep enough...

Paris: Long range sniping

Kunai: Close range crowd control

Glaive: Killing around corners so you'll be less exposed

I don't see how the Kunai are OP it fits into the stealth role the paris and glaive don't cover so now you have an entire stealth package.

Here's why a nerf won't work: Nerf the damage then you won't kill, wouldn't make much sense if you didn't react to a knife in your back.

Nerf the fire rate: You can't kill those guards who're close together,some guards have a really tight patrol pattern.

Giving them a quick reload animation can be bypassed by a reload mod

I just don't see how you can nerf the kunai without having them interfere with the role of another one of the stealth weapons.

[Tsualla]

I don't know, my Twin Viper still kill those Grineer heavygunner quicker than kunai, so, yeah.. :\

 

The kunai is, actually, an awesome ancient killer. Kunai does the same damage at every part of ancient's body.

[Hekatonkheire]

Now I already have Kunai at lv10, I'm ready to give an assessment of this weapon.

Yes, lv10 assessment. You don't read it wrong.

Basic Kunai deals 45 damage/shot, throw extremely fast, extremely fast reload, ample spare ammo, reasonable clipsize. Did I mention it ignores armor? Yeah, it ignores armor.

Comparing this weapon to other pistols, it's insane performance compared to the rest of it's brothers. Other armor-ignoring weapon don't possess this kind of qualities. Paris ignores armor but require charge mechanic to actually shine. Boltor has low base damage. Bolto/Akabolto still require more advanced crafting in order to obtain. It's now Hek version of pistol. Undoubtly it needs rebalancing.

The problem is how to make it balance without creating an uproar from direct nerf since some players obviously bought the stalker bundle which has Despair, an even more powerful version of Kunai.

This is my proposals.

1. Get rid of autofiring mechanic. It allows extremely fast throwing rate.

2. Get rid of reload. Really, it breaks immersion. How on Mercury can one pick more than one Kunai up and throw it one at a time?

3. Lower the total spare ammo. Half the spare ammo won't hurt this weapon.

4. Add extremely short reload after each throw, just a short animation without the reloading circle.

5. Add charge mechanic similar to Paris. Normal throw doesn't ignore armor, charged throw ignore armor. Short charging time.

Well, sounds like a bit of a nerf. What do you guys think? How do you think Kunai should be balanced? Or why it should be left as it is? Comments are welcomed!

 

Wholeheartedly agree. 

[Fijasrules]

kunai r not able to handle massive crowds of grineer or corpus no matter what happens to their damage or fire rate to hit ppl you can barely see that move fast and duck in cover and to handle the drop rate is hard to do for all but the most skilled players imo.

Lex is one shot one kill fully modded AND has perfect aim and with faster reload and fire rate destroys anything and everything u want to kill including almost all bosses except phorid in solo (from personal experience)

they r both good and both have their draw backs and if u want to just stand and fire use the ak furis or something to kill them if you think that any fully modded weapon is op then your silly because fully modded weapons are SUPPOSED to be op to allow you to handle pluto and defense past wave 5 (which the game is built for right now)

ps. kunai in the void aren't even that good because of all the cover and the corrupted's coloring which makes them hard to see.

[Edai_X369]

Nerf/Change for a weapon is needed when it oppose to physics. Hek can snipe, Gorgon can snipe.

 

Banshee is nerfed because the warframe is affected negatively to people experiences and gameplay by killing all enemies. Kunai is just a weapon to enhance people experiences and you demand a nerf? Did it take your kill or make you feel your favorite weapon is weak?

 

How about remove or change  FORMA please. People can just add multiple polarity and easy to max out the weapons. 

 

Rather than nerfing/change fun weapons for everyone to play why not buff 6 new useless weapons just for collectable?

 

How about nerfing Saryn? I killed 50 infested( possible everything on mini map) in just one button and 75 energy , even with Ancient lv 55, 2 button for Ancient 60 - 90.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Zokkoven