Pay 2 Win Much?

[Nod_Off]

sure it is pay2win. i would have no problem with that. but when i see this garbage performance, tons of lag everywhere, chat and party system in pre alpha stage... 

so what is the point to pay for this joke? i better use money as toilet paper

 You have played for a week tops, and you are crying? Please go away and dont let the door hit you in the rear on the way out. This is one of the best looking/functioning free to play games ever.

Also, please, show me where you "have" to pay for anything in order to play?

Lastly, check your internet, sounds like its crappy, as neither myself or anything in my clan of 350+ complains about lag at all... Unless it is host related.

 

That would be the case if you could actually get proper loot for progress, i agree on some part that mostly it's pay4convience but when you cant get any of that so called progressing loot through hundreads of gameplay hours. It stops being convinience

 

 

Check that for urself you get thunderbolt with a 44 euro purchase

https://warframe.com/buyplatinum

 

 

Well, i've spent yesterday evening doing defense missions and nothing even remotely close to a key as a reward

 

 

I love these posts really i do. Sure when you pay it's to avoid farming obviously

But like i explained earlier if u havent noticed, the problem with the "free loot" it that is so incredibly hard to attain that forces you to pay

And i'm a costumer i'm entitled to complain. This is not a club, so leave the clubism at the door.

I'm not saying the DE are the spawns of satan and should be hammered with a dildobat. I'm pointing out flaws that i as a customer see. In order to provide better feedback and improve the game.

 

 

Pay 2 win is an expression. So dont be silly about it "how you win" could you argue that you feel that you win, when you get the loot you want etc. But thats subjective.

Like i said again if you havent read, i've been running countless defense missions. I gave that plenty of shots already.

Since you clearly do not know what Pay 2 Win means....

Pay 2 Win is only an applicable title for a game where:

1. Improved items are only available for cash.

2. You can pay money to gain an unfair advantage over other players.

3. You are required to pay money in order to obtain access the top tiered items, that you can not get any other way.

So, other than the Founders pack. There is NOTHING you cant farm for. If you want to be lazy, fine. I dont care. But coming on here complaining about something your do not even understand is aggravating.

[KIll3RX15]

I'm sorry but i have to reply to this.

I'm new? Mr,GrandMaster

I have logged around 300 hours into the game. I got 5 warframes plus 4 warframes at foundry & working on bashee + frost prime. Got 22 weapons + around 5 at foundry

I got almost every mod the game has, except the new mods.

So restrain urself from those attacks and go post somewhere else.

you put 300 hours into to the game for what exactly to complain about small redundant things?

[Nod_Off]

I'm sorry but i have to reply to this.

I'm new? Mr,GrandMaster

I have logged around 300 hours into the game. I got 5 warframes plus 4 warframes at foundry & working on bashee + frost prime. Got 22 weapons + around 5 at foundry

I got almost every mod the game has, except the new mods.

So restrain urself from those attacks and go post somewhere else.

Yes, you are still new.

you put 300 hours into to the game for what exactly to complain about small redundant things?

My point exactly. +1

Edited May 29, 2013 by Zackai

[Hobie]

I agree so much with this post!

Espicially with the part where you have to pay for the warframe and weapon slots..

The fun element in this game, is there are so many playstyles, and different weapons and warframes

But i can't play them all.. Because i don't have plat for slots..

I would myself never use plat to get Things, so i wouldn't have to farm

Because i love having Things i earned myself

But the slot part is just stupid.. If you could farm for slots, that would be fine, but that ain't possible sadly

And the RNG just sucks.. I have played a lot, but it is just so rare to get the new mods they put in, and also those damn keys, and the stalker is also so rare, and he drops really rare.. You practicly have to buy all these Things, if you ever want to have fun with them

But that isn't fun either

I would rather pay 1 time for the game, like diablo 2 (and many other), and not have to pay ever Again

Because it is a very nice game, but as mentioned we are practicaly forced to pay

And i also agree that the system in League Of Legends is so much better

I have used Money there, to give my friends gifts, and also just to look cooler with skins

But i don't like the way Money can give you an advantage in the game..

[Hybridon]

I hate posting this, but you're just unlucky...

 

I got 10 keys since the patch came, all on defense missions. Yesterday in 3 hours i got 4 keys, all on a level 5 wave on defense missions on Venus, so Im guessing that I was lucky along with the people that played with me.

 

Thats just RNG.

[Nod_Off]

I'm not sure the Op has a firm knowledge of what the concepts he is referencing mean.

 

lets go over a list of terms it appears are being explicitly or implicitly misunderstood.

 

Pay to Win

Free to Play

Random Number Generator

Grind

Product value

 

Now we can address those all in a simple explanation.

 

A free to Play game is a game that allows you it's core game play free of charge, these games do have to monetize to support themselves.  Often this takes the shape of two things: 1. cosmetic items, skins, "exclusives" that don't imbalance game play and 2. shortcut the process of earning in game items through play (called grinding), in short time or money.  A free to play game does have to be careful of the concept of pay to win wherein Items that can imbalance game play are available exclusively to paying customers, the threshold is a little looser on a PVE game than PVP because the enemies are not other people and it is simply a question of difficulty and not fairness.  

 

Now an element is not Pay to win if it can reasonably be gained through "grind", which brings us to the random number generator or "RNG"  this can make things seem unreasonably hard to get due to the nature of randomness.  contrary to popular belief streaks are a hallmark of randomness in fact the gamblers fallacy or an assumption of perfect distribution is deeply delusional when conceptualizing an RNG.  Functionally you need a sample size commensurate to the number of possible out comes and the set rates of drops to determine if the rng is actually functional, in a free to p[lay game your personal experience is unlikely to be anything near a significant data set.  You may just be (un)lucky but that doesn't mean a feature is pay to win or unreasonable to attain, that is the nature of the grind.  Again time for money.

 

Most free to play games use an in-game "real money" currency. now the amount of it and what you get for it are set generally by what the market will bear.  This is perceived product value, an individuals personal opinions bear very little on this but a groups does.  As a rule this is the primary monetization of a F2P game and so if it isn't selling well the prices will change.  If you are complaining about it and the prices are not changing odds are you are in the minority, as a rule businesses want to make money and thy will adjust if they are not, if your perceived value of the in game currency is less than the community at larges you should not expect it to change.

 

And know you know what these things mean and you can stop making posts that have no bearing on reality beyond a QQ temper tantrum that makes you look like a child.

 

 

TLDR: The OP has no clue what he is talking about

Wow! Very well put! Do you mind if I use this as future reference for educating people?

[Venus-Venera]

I hate posting this, but you're just unlucky...

 

I got 10 keys since the patch came, all on defense missions. Yesterday in 3 hours i got 4 keys, all on a level 5 wave on defense missions on Venus, so Im guessing that I was lucky along with the people that played with me.

 

Thats just RNG.

one guy wins 2 millions in lottery. all other people are unlucky and should learn to play lottery. 

[Saxo]

Venus defence missions, got 3 while leveling frames (2 wave 5, 1 wave 10) try there.

[Nod_Off]

I agree so much with this post!

Espicially with the part where you have to pay for the warframe and weapon slots..

The fun element in this game, is there are so many playstyles, and different weapons and warframes

But i can't play them all.. Because i don't have plat for slots..

I would myself never use plat to get Things, so i wouldn't have to farm

Because i love having Things i earned myself

But the slot part is just stupid.. If you could farm for slots, that would be fine, but that ain't possible sadly

And the RNG just sucks.. I have played a lot, but it is just so rare to get the new mods they put in, and also those damn keys, and the stalker is also so rare, and he drops really rare.. You practicly have to buy all these Things, if you ever want to have fun with them

But that isn't fun either

I would rather pay 1 time for the game, like diablo 2 (and many other), and not have to pay ever Again

Because it is a very nice game, but as mentioned we are practicaly forced to pay

And i also agree that the system in League Of Legends is so much better

I have used Money there, to give my friends gifts, and also just to look cooler with skins

But i don't like the way Money can give you an advantage in the game..

Well lets see, they give you starting plat, and they have to eat somehow.

[Agent_of_Change]

The only thing I agree with you here is slots, everything else is so, so wrong.

*snip*

 

 

I agree so much with this post!

Espicially with the part where you have to pay for the warframe and weapon slots..

 *snip*

 

I forgot something in my explanation, how embarrassing.  The slot themselves are the very definition of good monetization in a free to play game.  The game allows you a number of starting slots for both warframes and weapons.  Being a completionist is not required to progress in the game, the game even provide a way to sell items back to both free up slots and gain in game currency (credits) back.  a slot ifs not permanently used up and needs to be replaced ever so there is no "need" to ever attain more.  The only reasons to acquire more weapon or warframe slots is to retain what you have already gone through a grind for.    Nominally you only need one warframe and three weapons at a time and to start you are given enough slots that you could easily find favorites and save them while cycling through other weapons and the end of the day the choice to retain everything is about ego and perhaps minor tactical considerations, these are not elements that need to be free.  In short teh Slot system is the last thing peopel should be complaining about as it is has objectively the least effect on direct game play as far as monetization.

[Agent_of_Change]

Wow! Very well put! Do you mind if I use this as future reference for educating people?

 

I do not,

 

In fact it would please me, I am on a mission to civilize.

[Mesane]

you are doing it wrong dude, im free to play and i have gone through everything, i even have latron prime lol

[Opacuslupus]

Bad luck is bad luck, ran 4 void t1 runs and my friends were getting all sorts of cool new mods, and I just got the same ol mods as usual. No worries, because eventually I'll get them, keeps me interested in the game....If I could get all the mods, bps, warframes etc from running a couple of dungeons then I would be bored with the game cause I had all that I wanted.  In my opinion the rng can be irritating however it keeps you playing and hoping that next mod, or next reward is the one(s) your after. So keep your chins up dig your feet in and hack away, you'll get what you want another day

and don't forget when you hear the stalker (>^_(>O_o)> Suprizbutsecks is on its way! ^_~

Edited May 29, 2013 by Opacuslupus

[Deadly-Bagel]

...

 

Now an element is not Pay to win if it can reasonably be gained through "grind"...

 

...As a rule this is the primary monetization of a F2P game and so if it isn't selling well the prices will change.  If you are complaining about it and the prices are not changing odds are you are in the minority, as a rule businesses want to make money and thy will adjust if they are not, if your perceived value of the in game currency is less than the community at larges you should not expect it to change.

 

And know you know what these things mean and you can stop making posts that have no bearing on reality beyond a QQ temper tantrum that makes you look like a child.

 

 

TLDR: The OP has no clue what he is talking about

Lol you people are always Founders.

 

"...Now an element is not Pay to win if it can reasonably be gained through grind..." Reasonably. I did, lessee... about ten defence missions on Saturday, all to wave 25. One T1 key. I did another ten plus defences on Sunday, no keys. I've done several defences since then and still no keys.

 

I figure I've easily seen over 100 defence rewards since U8 and seen ONE key. 1% chance to drop one round of the current end-game, and it was only the first difficulty. There are two more difficulties. You can rant RNG all you like, it doesn't change the fact that many people are having no luck in getting to the Void.

 

As for adjusting plat prices, I invite you to look here and still tell me people aren't complaining about plat prices. And keep in mind, mr Hunter, that Founders packs are FAR cheaper than actually buying plat outright, and won't be available forever.

 

Additionally, you're dismissing this person's opinion because you assume he is new. He just said he's been playing since U8, not that he started then. And regardless, your statement boils down to "You're new so can't complain about plat prices". Hold up a sec there, if new people are getting the impression that platinum is stupidly expensive, that's actually as bad if not worse as it's discouraging new players from getting hooked, no more paying members. Duhh.

[Nod_Off]

you are doing it wrong dude, im free to play and i have gone through everything, i even have latron prime lol

+100

[Oranjeboom]

Cant understand the people who disagree with OP

Tier 3 keyes droprate is close to non existant

Tier 3 has the good loot

Tier 3 guaranteed in plat packs.

 

I feel forced to pay so i can enjoy the new items

This is terrible free to play game design.

[Mr.Kaeron]

I'm loving this thread, people are so clueless it hurts xD 
Flame away my friends =)

[Nod_Off]

Cant understand the people who disagree with OP

Tier 3 keyes droprate is close to non existant

Tier 3 has the good loot

Tier 3 guaranteed in plat packs.

 

I feel forced to pay so i can enjoy the new items

This is terrible free to play game design.

I guess you missed all of the people stating where they got multiple keys an hour. Maybe you should try there.

I'm loving this thread, people are so clueless it hurts xD 

Flame away my friends =)

But you couldnt be either right?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Zackai

[LegendairyWarframe]

If classifying 1 out of 100 people registered an account for this game stayed to play as successful, then there is no failure.

PS:Guess what I will get flamed with? "Why don't you go make a game yourself".

[Oranjeboom]

I guess you missed all of the people stating where they got multiple keys an hour. Maybe you should try there.

But you couldnt be either right?

 

Dont need other statements

 

I log in

get ember and farm every defence i heard it drops.

6-8 hrs = 2 x tier 1 keys

[Hybridon]

Cant understand the people who disagree with OP

Tier 3 keyes droprate is close to non existant

Tier 3 has the good loot

Tier 3 guaranteed in plat packs.

 

I feel forced to pay so i can enjoy the new items

This is terrible free to play game design.

 

I got Latron and Reaper parts on Tier 1 and 2, and on 3 I got a Forma BP.

 

And theres several of threads that people clearly state having completed Latron, Reaper and Frost Prime all on Tier 1-2.

 

Tier 3 only has a higher difficulty and a bigger probability to get something better, hence why its rarer.

 

If you dont want to grind, then buy key packs.

 

Its a f2p game, not a hand it all over for free and play game.

 

People got too used to having every frame and weapon available with easy methods, that now that the difficulty is increased flaming seems to be the big solution to make the game easier, and therefore the lack of interest for the game would come sooner.

 

I myself have all frames except Vauban and Nyx, and a load of weapons, yet Im really entertained grinding for Keys, which I luckily got access to 10, while my clan have several other keys, and along with that waiting on devs to see if Ill continue with the dojo with my small clan. Im hooked up, and so are many others, whoever complains is who doesnt want to drop in money to get the convenience part and yes wants it to be a easy get game.

[Pisirk]

Its a pay4convience, not pay2win

Instant.............convenient.................inconvenient................lottery..................impossible

I'd say on that scale its pay to avoid lottery, or pay for instant gratification

[Tallon1969]

The game is not "pay to win"...  It's actually:

"Pay to get everything faster because I'm lazy and don't want to grind for months to get enough resources to build what I want."

I fall into that catagory sometimes ^^

You can obtain almost everything in the game without paying,  just takes longer.

[Nod_Off]

I got Latron and Reaper parts on Tier 1 and 2, and on 3 I got a Forma BP.

 

And theres several of threads that people clearly state having completed Latron, Reaper and Frost Prime all on Tier 1-2.

 

Tier 3 only has a higher difficulty and a bigger probability to get something better, hence why its rarer.

 

If you dont want to grind, then buy key packs.

 

Its a f2p game, not a hand it all over for free and play game.

 

People got too used to having every frame and weapon available with easy methods, that now that the difficulty is increased flaming seems to be the big solution to make the game easier, and therefore the lack of interest for the game would come sooner.

 

I myself have all frames except Vauban and Nyx, and a load of weapons, yet Im really entertained grinding for Keys, which I luckily got access to 10, while my clan have several other keys, and along with that waiting on devs to see if Ill continue with the dojo with my small clan. Im hooked up, and so are many others, whoever complains is who doesnt want to drop in money to get the convenience part and yes wants it to be a easy get game.

Exactly!! I got all of my blueprints, and pieces from Rank 1 Raids and Exterms. The only thing I got from higher tiered missions was Forma BPs and latron prime blueprints lol.

The game is not "pay to win"...  It's actually:

"Pay to get everything faster because I'm lazy and don't want to grind for months to get enough resources to build what I want."

I fall into that catagory sometimes ^^

You can obtain almost everything in the game without paying,  just takes longer.

Another person that gets it, and can accept that they sometimes want it faster! =D

Edited May 29, 2013 by Zackai

[squaresphere]

I got a key on my very first defense mission after the patch, guess that invalidates a lot of the OP :p