[WC] Ushtar: The Marine Tactician | 6/14/2017 - Added fulcrvm's last sketch

[(XBOX)Drone A5R]

this art is dopee!! the whole design goes great with the concept

maybe in his 4th add better auto aim you know like deadly pinpoint accuracy.

maybe switch up the first to work towards a more aggressive playstyle: takedown disarms the enemy but using the weapons doesnt break the combo instead you have a combo window, maybe even have an augment that allows you to throw the weapon and stun the enemy you target next. instead of the the invisibility have him take a hostage and use it as a meat shield like in gears of war, you can only use secondaries, and its time based once time runs out you execute the enemy or the ability ends once it dies. (this ability senrgizes well with the 4th)

and have him drop a body armor of sorts for allies and him self that works like the "overshield of the health" or deployable cover.

and if you wanna have the stealth aspect make him do it like solid snek xD, you know duck in and out of cover and have him pull out a box (a container specific to the tileset he is on in this case) and get in it, you cannot move but enemies will just pass by you and then you can take them down and maybe find a way to add Farcry style take downs (or maybe just double takedowns). something special since chained takedowns could end up being part of ash once he gets reworked

 

[Rhekemi]

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

this art is dopee!! the whole design goes great with the concept

 

Hey, thanks. Concerning the art, one of Ushtar’s artists, Gamer_Jay, has sketched two alternate helmets I’m going to show off later. I’m really pleased with how sick they turned out.

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

maybe in his 4th add better auto aim you know like deadly pinpoint accuracy.

I’m not opposed to beefing up, or making the weapon buff more specific (in some way), but auto-aim is something I want to stay away from. This isn’t saying your suggestion is bad, but that I’d made up my mind on this last year: for an ultimate, I want the player to be active, and not rely on auto-aim.

I will try to come up with buffs for Blade and Gun that are appealing but not overpowered, though.

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

maybe switch up the first to work towards a more aggressive playstyle: takedown disarms the enemy but using the weapons doesnt break the combo instead you have a combo window,

As cool as that would be, I can’t justify not breaking the combo and letting him disarm and use the weapon. It would be overpowered.

I know I want Ushtar to be a really fun ‘frame to use, but balancing him, not making him a one-man army that outclasses every other warframe has to remain a priority. If it means I need time to figure out how to use fun suggestions, that’s what I have to do.

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

maybe even have an augment that allows you to throw the weapon and stun the enemy you target next.

Again, sounds fun, but for a whole augment, I think we have to develop something more. (And the mechanics of throwing weapons will only add to the list of new mechanics Usthar uses.)

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

instead of the the invisibility have him take a hostage and use it as a meat shield like in gears of war, you can only use secondaries, and its time based once time runs out you execute the enemy or the ability ends once it dies. (this ability senrgizes well with the 4th)

The stealth mechanic will have to stay.

But this hostage taking you speak of…I like it. It’s a popular mechanic of other games too. Pretty sure it’s used in Splinter Cell as well. I do like it. This could work as an augment. I could see Ushtar transferring aggro into the hostage/shield enemy while he’s in Zeal and Blade and Gun, allowing him to regenerate health and shields.

Good idea. I’d have to work in some drawbacks or else risk Ushtar being overpowered, of course.

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

and have him drop a body armor of sorts for allies and him self that works like the "overshield of the health" or deployable cover.

Ushtar’s third ability Zeal as well as his second Fortify adds armor to himself and his squad and his fourth, Blade and Gun) adds more armor to himself. I know that isn’t a traditional deployable cover, but I think it’s sufficient. Check out this warframe by a friend for deployable cover warframe skills:

 

 

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

and if you wanna have the stealth aspect make him do it like solid snek xD, you know duck in and out of cover and have him pull out a box (a container specific to the tileset he is on in this case) and get in it, you cannot move but enemies will just pass by you and then you can take them down

 

That would be fun, but everyone and their mother will know it’s Solid Snake’s thing. Metal Gear’s stealth mechanic is too unique for another game to borrow, I think. I’m not against thinking up tweaks to his stealth so long as the tweaks make it interesting, though.

On 7/21/2016 at 4:13 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

and maybe find a way to add Farcry style take downs (or maybe just double takedowns). something special since chained takedowns could end up being part of ash once he gets reworked

 

Takedowns can currently be chained (and will most likely be kill-takedowns if Takedown is activated during Blade and Gun). As for Ash’s rework, yeah…we’ll see how much reworking I’ll have to do once that happens.

Thanks for the feedback and interest!

[Rehtael7]

:D

Also if you had the 4th ability be auto-aim, Ushtar would LITERALLY be Soldier 76

[(XBOX)Drone A5R]

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I’m not opposed to beefing up, or making the weapon buff more specific (in some way), but auto-aim is something I want to stay away from. This isn’t saying your suggestion is bad, but that I’d made up my mind on this last year: for an ultimate, I want the player to be active, and not rely on auto-aim. 

I will try to come up with buffs for Blade and Gun that are appealing but not overpowered, though.

Well not a complete auto-aim just some amount of aim assist instead (thats the word I was looking for not auto-aim,my bad) he is a marine which means he has to have amazing aim and in the heat of the battle adrenaline kicks in and beefs that up, Im suggesting aim assist like in GTA V on console but not too much. which means the player wont end up being another Peacekeeper Mesa, he will have to aim at his target and maintain it but will have some assistants too. 

 

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

As cool as that would be, I can’t justify not breaking the combo and letting him disarm and use the weapon. It would be overpowered.

I know I want Ushtar to be a really fun ‘frame to use, but balancing him, not making him a one-man army that outclasses every other warframe has to remain a priority. If it means I need time to figure out how to use fun suggestions, that’s what I have to do. 

Again, sounds fun, but for a whole augment, I think we have to develop something more. (And the mechanics of throwing weapons will only add to the list of new mechanics Usthar uses.)

I can't really see it being overpowered, it would just make it a bit more effective towards crowds. I mean look at Atlas first ITS CRAZY HOW WELL YOU CAN TAKE CARE OF A GROUP OF ENEMIES WITH THE RIGHT BUILD. and like you said you can only use the weapon until the clip runs out, plus it depends on the gun play of the player and how well he can close the gap between him and the next enemy in the combo (keep the dash range unaffected by mods maybe? kinda like atlas 1#), how it is now i feel like its just ash's teleportation with the augment but with a combo and no need for the mod.

AND THINK OF THE ADVANTAGE OF USING THIS ON A BOMBARD TAKING OUT SOME ENEMIES WITH  HIS OGRIS THAN MOVING ONTO THE NEXT BOMBARD TO COUNTINUE THE CARNAGE

Remember an ability sounds OP until you tinker with it enough like making it require a nice payoff, energy consumption, combo timer, range and all that stuff you start with a base idea than tinker till its not OP, think exalted blade and Hysteria they were OP but with some work they'll stop being it, doesn't have to be perfect at launch you always have chance to fix it up, i mean look at how much some abilities have changed. 

and yes a whole augment for a completely new game mechanic does sound like too much hassel. 

and nothing wrong with a one man army, and he proably wont be that in higher rounds 

P.s. when you dash towards an enemy will your health be invulnerable (like slash dash)?, of course if you stop to use the gun this wouldnt apply

 

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But this hostage taking you speak of…I like it. It’s a popular mechanic of other games too. Pretty sure it’s used in Splinter Cell as well. I do like it. This could work as an augment. I could see Ushtar transferring aggro into the hostage/shield enemy while he’s in Zeal and Blade and Gun, allowing him to regenerate health and shields.

Good idea. I’d have to work in some drawbacks or else risk Ushtar being overpowered, of course

Maybe make it into a damage reduction like Shatter Shield? but not as powerful, and maybe this would work  better as an augment mod for the disarm ability I dont know, but I'm glad you like the mechanic, no greater tactical advantage than a hostage. hope you find some way to incorporate it to your concept

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That would be fun, but everyone and their mother will know it’s Solid Snake’s thing. Metal Gear’s stealth mechanic is too unique for another game to borrow, I think. I’m not against thinking up tweaks to his stealth so long as the tweaks make it interesting, though.

yea but thats what'll make it cool AN OMAGE TO THEE TACTICAL STEALTH GAME! (says it the title xD) the problem could be copyright issues but its a game mechanic(that other games have used of in some way, cover systems arent new and in AC you can jump in to things to avoid being seen) and i doubt there's any way to copyright that, and konami is almost dead after letting kojima go so I think they have bigger issues but you never know how they'll react . but you know in the end (it doesn't even matter) im just making suggestions so we wont have another invisibility ability, and if he's a "tactical marine" his abilities should show his skill and not dependence on his gear and so we actually have stealth play instead of just going invisible then running past everything.

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Thanks for the feedback and interest!

NO THANK YOU! for actually taking the time to read it and giving feedback on my feedback, glad to see people understand that a concepts gets nice and cool with feedback and criticize. 

hope this is 1 of the 10 warframe fan concepts DE wants to use. ;D

Edited July 23, 2016 by (XB1)Drone A5R

[Rhekemi]

On 7/23/2016 at 2:29 AM, Rehtael7 said:

:D

Also if you had the 4th ability be auto-aim, Ushtar would LITERALLY be Soldier 76

I fear the day Ush will endlessly be compared to 76, yet the similarities at least show those uncertain of such a skillset that it can have a place in a large character roster like Warframe's.

On 7/23/2016 at 4:56 AM, (XB1)Drone A5R said:

Well not a complete auto-aim just some amount of aim assist instead (thats the word I was looking for not auto-aim,my bad) he is a marine which means he has to have amazing aim and in the heat of the battle adrenaline kicks in and beefs that up, Im suggesting aim assist like in GTA V on console but not too much. which means the player wont end up being another Peacekeeper Mesa, he will have to aim at his target and maintain it but will have some assistants too. 

I can't see Ushtar needing an aim-assist either, but I do honestly want to give his Ultimate something unique because of posts like yours (and others that want the HGM/turret type soldier ultimate. I'm against that too, but I will think of...something...).

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I can't really see it being overpowered, it would just make it a bit more effective towards crowds. I mean look at Atlas first ITS CRAZY HOW WELL YOU CAN TAKE CARE OF A GROUP OF ENEMIES WITH THE RIGHT BUILD. and like you said you can only use the weapon until the clip runs out, plus it depends on the gun play of the player and how well he can close the gap between him and the next enemy in the combo (keep the dash range unaffected by mods maybe? kinda like atlas 1#), how it is now i feel like its just ash's teleportation with the augment but with a combo and no need for the mod.

AND THINK OF THE ADVANTAGE OF USING THIS ON A BOMBARD TAKING OUT SOME ENEMIES WITH  HIS OGRIS THAN MOVING ONTO THE NEXT BOMBARD TO COUNTINUE THE CARNAGE

I'll think about it.

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Remember an ability sounds OP until you tinker with it enough like making it require a nice payoff, energy consumption, combo timer, range and all that stuff you start with a base idea than tinker till its not OP, think exalted blade and Hysteria they were OP but with some work they'll stop being it, doesn't have to be perfect at launch you always have chance to fix it up, i mean look at how much some abilities have changed.

Indeed. Ushtar started out as very, very, OP and member suggestions, me going back to the drawing board, have helped refine him.

 

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and yes a whole augment for a completely new game mechanic does sound like too much hassel. 

and nothing wrong with a one man army, and he proably wont be that in higher rounds 

P.s. when you dash towards an enemy will your health be invulnerable (like slash dash)?, of course if you stop to use the gun this wouldnt apply

Until DE makes a one-man-army 'frame, I'm sure many members will disagree/see it as overpowered. If I can do it in a way players can support and it doesn't break the game, I'm fine with that.

Uh...I hadn't considered temporary invulnerability in the skill like that of Ash and other warframes in some abilities. (It used to have a sprint boost AND overshield, everyone said the overshield was OP.)

But you raise good points on the functionality of the ability I'll think about when I have time.

 

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Maybe make it into a damage reduction like Shatter Shield? but not as powerful, and maybe this would work  better as an augment mod for the disarm ability I dont know, but I'm glad you like the mechanic, no greater tactical advantage than a hostage. hope you find some way to incorporate it to your concept

I'm pretty sure the hostage suggestion will be Ushtar's first solid augment. Will consider Shatter Shield mechanic, or use an aggro transfer. Just gimme some time and I'll get back to y'all with specifics.

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yea but thats what'll make it cool AN OMAGE TO THEE TACTICAL STEALTH GAME! (says it the title xD) the problem could be copyright issues but its a game mechanic(that other games have used of in some way, cover systems arent new and in AC you can jump in to things to avoid being seen) and i doubt there's any way to copyright that, and konami is almost dead after letting kojima go so I think they have bigger issues but you never know how they'll react . but you know in the end (it doesn't even matter) im just making suggestions so we wont have another invisibility ability, and if he's a "tactical marine" his abilities should show his skill and not dependence on his gear and so we actually have stealth play instead of just going invisible then running past everything.

Noted, and that is actually really true: Warframe needs better, diverse stealth tactics that go beyond invisibility. Gotta stick with invisibility for now, but good point.

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NO THANK YOU! for actually taking the time to read it and giving feedback on my feedback, glad to see people understand that a concepts gets nice and cool with feedback and criticize. 

hope this is 1 of the 10 warframe fan concepts DE wants to use. ;D

No problem, and thanks again. Y'all's support and feedback is what keeps me coming back to this. 

Check out some new alt helmets here:

Later, I will add a full (or as complete as I can make it) list of update notes to the front page. This will help show changes to Ushtar over time.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Rehtael7]

Well, 76's ability set is sprint, heal aoe, rocket launcher burst DPS and partial aimbot. I don't think Ushtar will see much in the way of comparison beyond theme.

[HitsuyonaKurarento]

Hey there! Just thought I'd drop by to say that I approve of the idea of a frame that can just about take on any of the 4 main roles in Warframe (Offense, Defense, Support, & Infiltration). However... I also got a (kind of) question. As much as I DO like Ushtar's current design concept as of the time this post comes in. Unfortunately... I'm not an entirely big fan of Military dress uniforms (what Ushtar's current design is based around)... So... Are you willing to put more time & effort into a kind of Ushtar deluxe skin that is based around the modern-day military tactical gear (Like pouches, bandoliers... yeah, I think you're getting the idea) & maybe an Ushtar Auxiliary cosmetic like a sheath for his Fidelis knife?

Regardless... I still like this kind of hard work! I can BARELY wait to see more of it XD.

[Rhekemi]

11 hours ago, GigantEdge said:

Hey there! Just thought I'd drop by to say that I approve of the idea of a frame that can just about take on any of the 4 main roles in Warframe (Offense, Defense, Support, & Infiltration).

Hi, and I'm glad you like his versatility. 

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However... I also got a (kind of) question. As much as I DO like Ushtar's current design concept as of the time this post comes in. Unfortunately... I'm not an entirely big fan of Military dress uniforms (what Ushtar's current design is based around)...

That's understandable. Everyone has different tastes.

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So... Are you willing to put more time & effort into a kind of Ushtar deluxe skin that is based around the modern-day military tactical gear (Like pouches, bandoliers... yeah, I think you're getting the idea) & maybe an Ushtar Auxiliary cosmetic like a sheath for his Fidelis knife?

I didn't want to respond in haste, and I've thought this over for a few hours. 

My initial answer (inside my head) was something along the lines of "WHAT!? NO!"

The suggestion goes against everything I've tried to accomplish with the concept (and the artwork, none of it, is mine. 3 artists helped me create different looks). @fulcrvm @Gamer_Jay @Andy1134 

That said, when I look at it as just a cosmetic and not an aesthetic that defines his abilities and skills or his theme (as a more traditional solider seen in many, many games), then I think there is a possibility for it at a later date (as you suggest, a deluxe skin). It'd be more along the lines of Excalibur's Proto in a way.

Short answer: maybe later, yes. It doesn't hurt his concept and if it would let folks feel pretty badass while wearing it, why not?

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Regardless... I still like this kind of hard work! I can BARELY wait to see more of it XD.

Thank you for your interest. 

EDIT: I've also added a list of Ushtar's changes over time at the bottom of the first post.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Rhekemi

[HitsuyonaKurarento]

8 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I didn't want to respond in haste, and I've thought this over for a few hours. 

My initial answer (inside my head) was something along the lines of "WHAT!? NO!"

The suggestion goes against everything I've tried to accomplish with the concept (and the artwork, none of it, is mine. 3 artists helped me create different looks). @fulcrvm @Gamer_Jay @Andy1134 

That said, when I look at it as just a cosmetic and not an aesthetic that defines his abilities and skills or his theme (as a more traditional solider seen in many, many games), then I think there is a possibility for it at a later date (as you suggest, a deluxe skin). It'd be more along the lines of Excalibur's Proto in a way.

Short answer: maybe later, yes. It doesn't hurt his concept and if it would let folks feel pretty badass while wearing it, why not?

1. I understand that you didn't want to respond quickly & that you had(?) to think my question over.
2. Was it likely that I was gonna get that response, or is that just me?
3. Yeah. I was thinking that my suggestion might conflict(?) with your goals with this concept. I also must've overlooked that part with those 3 artists that helped out with this concept (My bad...).
4. That's what I was just suggesting. A skin that DOESN'T change ANYTHING but looks & (Like you said) is along the lines of something like Excalibur's Proto-Armor. Remember when Gamer_Jay brought you a version of Ushtar with designs based around Tactical-Military gear instead of military dresses? I bet my Ushtar deluxe skin suggestion might be up their alley. (Also remember when I suggested an Auxiliary cosmetic for Ushtar?)
5. "Maybe later, yes" huh? I just HOPE this Ushtar deluxe skin that I suggested will ACTUALLY be WORTH waiting for. (Gaben): Welcome to Team fortress 2. After 9 years in development. Hopefully, it will have been worth the wait. (Me): Sorry Gaben. But for some weird reason, it feels to me like it wasn't WORTH THE WAIT (Not that I actually HATE TF2)...

Anyways. Thanks for at least putting my suggestion into some kind of consideration! :)

- Gigant Edge, Champion of heart from the Blades of Unchained Keys. (< You'd have to have heard about Kingdom Hearts in order to at least understand certain parts of that small description...)

[Rhekemi]

I guarantee you I'd have had the same response to any member who asked that I create/ask the art team to create a tactical/modern military gear skin.

It's all good, though. 

Being open to ideas and criticism has generally helped improve Ushtar overall.

What I mean by "maybe later, yes" is that maybe at a later date I can request this artwork. Right now, all three artists are likely busy and I'd like to focus on tweaking his kit, augments, and splash page updates (the old ones are outdated by changes to his kit and new art, so I removed them).

(I'm not a KH player so the references went over my head. And I actually do hate TF2. =\ )

Thanks again.

[Rehtael7]

Now I suppose I should get around to making a comment on Ushtar's abilities...

Due to Rhek's fairly frequent updates I've been waiting for the dust to settle some.

1st ability: I think takedown should just be removed. It's a cool concept, and I REALLY want to use it, but a 75 energy cost combined with the exceptionally complex mechanics just makes for an awkward first power all around. As for silent blade, it's basically an inferior version of Ivara's Prowl, except for you retaining full movement speed. Fidelis isn't taking any unique role here, it's doing whatever poket melee would do.

EDIT: Either keep stealth and find a way to make it distinct to give Ushtar versatility, or overhaul the first ability so that it synergizes with his other abilities.

2nd ability: Fortify is exceptionally weak. The duration is piss-poor as a defensive move, and the armor provided is rather minuscule, particularly when compared to Warcry, which can theoretically last forever, bolsters offense, and provides +50% armor without factoring in power strength. Toxin resist is much too specifc, despite it being very, VERY useful. Transfuse is a bit fiddly for practical application, and the damage is a bit high. It seems like a more damage-focused version of Well of Life (And you may be familiar with WoL's reputation), or a single-target version of Mend (Which is rather unpopular as a heal)

May I instead suggest that the ability be Tap-to-use on enemies, allowing Ushtar to perform a finisher with the sutures that deals a slash proc, and the amount of health lost via the slash proc is stored up to a certain cap, then he be able to Hold-to-use an AoE that provides a health benefit to allies, as well as more defensive buffs, like elemental resist, armor, etc, making it effectively a single-target focused mend with much greater combat prowess, and a more significant impact on the team. This would drive home his role as a damage-dealer support.

3rd ability: Zeal's duration is kinda crap for a buff like that, but more importantly I don't think an aggro pull has much synergy with the rest of his kit. What you've described sounds more like a gladiator move than a marine, move. This particularly clashes with silent blade which seems to imply a stealth motif. I love the knockdown recovery aspect and think that converting the ability to a "rage-mode" so to speak would benefit the remainder of his kit. Something that keeps him in the fight and improves his role as a team player.

4th ability: I love (And I mean LOVE) where blade and gun is going, but I think I know a more technical way to make it happen.

Ability is now a toggle.

Slide +25%

Friction -25%

Bullet jump -75%

Movement Speed +60% (This way he retains high movement speed while aiming down sights)

Aimglide -75%

Holster Speed +200%

Accuracy +25%

Fire rate: +25%

20% of Magazine reloaded while holstered

I suggest making Fidelis REALLY shine here and all attacks done from drawn-melee are finishers. (This of course means Fidelis taking the place of your equipped melee, and presumably taking on its mods like Hysteria or Exalted blade would)  EDIT: Also give it a unique stance with unique finisher animations. Sure it's a lot of work for the animation department, but it would absolutely be worth it.

EDIT: Each finisher with Fidelis costs 5 energy, encouraging the user to utilize gunplay over easy finishers.

Armor +5% per kill

Ally damage boost: +2.5% per kill

Energy Drain 25 initially, 1 per second, increasing by 1 for every second, up to 25 energy per second, not factoring in efficiency.

I don't see the point in altering other abilities while Blade and Gun is active, when many of them are complex enough.

 

Passive: How about this; Chambered Round: +10% Magazine size. As a Marine, prowess with a rifle should be innate. Since 1 chambered round is only a useful passive on very low-capacity weapons, 10% would be a reasonable alternative.

 

Please let me know if I'm fundamentally misunderstanding any particular aspect of any of the abilities. 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Rehtael7

[Rhekemi]

Hey, bro. Thanks for the feedback. It's quite hefty, so I'll need to make time to give a proper response.

[Rehtael7]

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Hey, bro. Thanks for the feedback. It's quite hefty, so I'll need to make time to give a proper response.

Blade and Gun really gets this vibe going when I think about it:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Rehtael7

[Rhekemi]

First of all, I do not like bumping a concept unless I have a response to a new post, an update, a question/request for feedback on something, or revisions to the kit.

Ushtar has received a ton of attention and isn't going anywhere any time soon. I'd much rather newer concepts, or those that aren't getting enough shine while I figure out things I still need to fix with Ushtar.

Also, seeing backed up feedback with no response bugs me. Rehtael, I will respond to your critique in time.

This update is for an unexpected and awesome new alternate helmet from Gamer_Jay. "Imperator"

Found out Imperator was already the name of a syandana, so it's now named:  Ahiga (meaning "He Fights" in Navajo)

Design is all Gamer_Jay's idea, and I love it. It evokes the feeling of a mythical, male warrior from various cultures. It's regal, and it's badass. The hair in the back (on the side view) is a touch too long, but that is my only nitpick. Gamer_Jay notes that the Lotus symbol on the helmet's front changes to the player's current mastery rank. 

@Gamer_Jay

Edited September 7, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Q-Nel-974]

I Hope !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rhekemi]

@Q-Nel-974 , I actually have less faith in another community created warframe becoming a reality than most people, but I appreciate the support as always, and hope DE considers another community 'frame.

If we got one, it would have to be damn near a perfect fit. 

There are several concepts more deserving than Ushtar. (Not that I don't appreciate your support, everyone. I do! Just a pessimistic realist about it. Continuing work on Usthar is a pet project, and one I do for those who still enjoy the concept.)

 

[Rehtael7]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

@Q-Nel-974 , I actually have less faith in another community created warframe becoming a reality than most people, but I appreciate the support as always, and hope DE considers another community 'frame.

If we got one, it would have to be damn near a perfect fit. 

There are several concepts more deserving than Ushtar. (Not that I don't appreciate your support, everyone. I do! Just a pessimistic realist about it. Continuing work on Usthar is a pet project, and one I do for those who still enjoy the concept.)

 

It hurts to say it, but Rhek's right. The likelihood of another fan frame is astonishing low unless DE decides to take up a "one fan frame a year" rule.

Even the frames with an avalanche of fan support like Typhus haven't seen much dev attention as far as we know.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Rehtael7

[(PSN)B_Psycho2]

Power 1 should be renamed
 

Power 4 should be "Fidelis"

 

I'm thinking that maybe his 4 could use a change, I dunno. Just thinking here.

I think you're going for a whole loadout thing, Two seems okay, I guess

Primary Weapon: Ol' Reliable: Standard Assault Rifle, looks like Halo's SMG, shoots like a Karak Wraith, Should be viable in both crit and status with okay damage as well. (dunno about damage) Crit 25 Status 25? maybe? 

Melee Weapon: Karambit: Dagger/Glaive hybrid (Throwing Knife): Same crit and status as Ol' Reliable, damage unknown. Can be used with quickmelee, hold to toss. When throwing knife is thrown, it deals an immediate slash proc and the enemy is cc'd trying to pull it out. (CC doesn't work on bosses). If quickmelee is pressed after knife is thrown, you leap to the enemy and pull it out dealing finisher damage. Can also do regular dagger quickmelee combos with it.

[Rhekemi]

The Imperator helmet has now been renamed Ahiga: meaning "He fights" in Navajo.

Imperator was already the name of a syandana.

Feedback on feedback time.

On 8/4/2016 at 4:01 AM, Rehtael7 said:

1st ability: I think takedown should just be removed. It's a cool concept, and I REALLY want to use it, but a 75 energy cost combined with the exceptionally complex mechanics just makes for an awkward first power all around. As for silent blade, it's basically an inferior version of Ivara's Prowl, except for you retaining full movement speed. Fidelis isn't taking any unique role here, it's doing whatever poket melee would do.

Alright, fair point. Energy costs and mechanics can be reviewed and addressed. 

I don't necessarily think the mechanics are too complex (DE has headed down increasingly complex paths). Instead, I believe members feel Ushtar does too much stuff.

That is something DE is, more or less, against. They're prone to breaking things off into augments when they could easily be fundamental parts of a power. I can see myself doing that for Ushtar. (Turning some of his mechanics into augments.)

This is what members have been pointing out, and I'm still trying to whittle down his Does Too Much Cool Stuff problem without making him a shell of himself.

Much to my annoyance, Silent Blade pre-dates my knowledge of Ivara's ability (and possibly it's launch), as well as the ShadowStep focus ability. Will address stealth more below.

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EDIT: Either keep stealth and find a way to make it distinct to give Ushtar versatility, or overhaul the first ability so that it synergizes with his other abilities.

Yeah. That's the plan, generally: find a way to make his stealth unique without losing it. 

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2nd ability: Fortify is exceptionally weak. The duration is piss-poor as a defensive move, and the armor provided is rather minuscule, particularly when compared to Warcry, which can theoretically last forever, bolsters offense, and provides +50% armor without factoring in power strength.

If the criticism is that the boost is underwhelming, that's mostly a balancing issue. Earlier it was overpowered. Finding the right number is a work in progress.

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Toxin resist is much too specifc, despite it being very, VERY useful.

Which, to be honest, is why it's staying in the kit. It's useful and specific. I'll consider ways to broaden it without turning Ushtar into Trinity. (Like making all his healing and boosts mechanically linked to kills, damage output, and taking damage for the team.)

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Transfuse is a bit fiddly for practical application, and the damage is a bit high. It seems like a more damage-focused version of Well of Life (And you may be familiar with WoL's reputation), or a single-target version of Mend (Which is rather unpopular as a heal)

Damage may indeed be too high. 

As for lesser forms of heals (specifically, lesser than Trinity), this is an often cited as a reason not to make healing abilities, but I've never subscribed to this thinking.

If the argument is to make them more effective, I agree. (Mend's problem is it's just not very effective, or at least I found it to be.)

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May I instead suggest that the ability be Tap-to-use on enemies, allowing Ushtar to perform a finisher with the sutures that deals a slash proc, and the amount of health lost via the slash proc is stored up to a certain cap, then he be able to Hold-to-use an AoE that provides a health benefit to allies, as well as more defensive buffs, like elemental resist, armor, etc, making it effectively a single-target focused mend with much greater combat prowess, and a more significant impact on the team. This would drive home his role as a damage-dealer support.

This isn't growing on me. But I will think about it.

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3rd ability: Zeal's duration is kinda crap for a buff like that, but more importantly I don't think an aggro pull has much synergy with the rest of his kit.

Yeah. Will work on synergy.

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What you've described sounds more like a gladiator move than a marine, move.

Actually, it ties in with the first line of defense/first to fight/forward deployed theme of marines. And while he's still called the 'marine tactician' it's now a loose term. He hasn't been rigidly tied to that theme since his really early days.

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This particularly clashes with silent blade which seems to imply a stealth motif.

Well, Ushtar doesn't have a stealth motif, really. That's the thing. Zeal is more in line with his his offense, survivability and support which is part of the theme he's built around. 

Furthermore, I've never really gotten stealth ability = stealth warframe.

I see it as just that: a single stealth ability that promotes/helps stealth and solo gameplay. If I had my way, every 'frame would have a mechanic or ability that employed some form of stealth. For those that don't, there's Huras and Shade. 

We're stealthy as Tenno/warframes to begin with (including stealth insertion into missions and out of it). We use stealth weapons and cloaking gear despite not being stealth warframes.

Hydroid isn't a stealth 'frame is he? Yet his Undertow is stealthy. If I could capture that, stealth without turning invisible, in an ability, I'd be happier.

What I've come to understand sets most people off about Silent Blade is that it completely cloaks him/turns him invisible.

It's the easiest way to achieve stealth, and not only would I like to come up with something better, I'm sure I could. But in the meantime, it'll remain as is.

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I love the knockdown recovery aspect and think that converting the ability to a "rage-mode" so to speak would benefit the remainder of his kit. Something that keeps him in the fight and improves his role as a team player.

If I can, I would prefer not to turn him into a male Valkyr with guns. She can be played as support, absolutely, but too many Valkyrs run as solo-killing machines while they're in a team. 

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4th ability: I love (And I mean LOVE) where blade and gun is going, but I think I know a more technical way to make it happen.

Ability is now a toggle.

Slide +25%

Friction -25%

Bullet jump -75%

Movement Speed +60% (This way he retains high movement speed while aiming down sights)

Aimglide -75%

Holster Speed +200%

Accuracy +25%

Fire rate: +25%

20% of Magazine reloaded while holstered

I suggest making Fidelis REALLY shine here and all attacks done from drawn-melee are finishers. (This of course means Fidelis taking the place of your equipped melee, and presumably taking on its mods like Hysteria or Exalted blade would)  

Most of this would be in-line with the current ability without tearing it down and remaking it. I'll think about it. (It already is toggleable, so are you referring to ditching casting cost?)

However, making finisher kills in his 1 and 4 (and Tourniquet?) is dubious, and the drawbacks in the suggested rework seem to put Ushtar back on his OP status (something I'm still not sure has been sufficiently addressed).

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EDIT: Also give it a unique stance with unique finisher animations. Sure it's a lot of work for the animation department, but it would absolutely be worth it.

The plan was to create a karambit topic with stances, etc, at some point and use that as the basis for Ushtar's unique weapon. Never got around to it.

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EDIT: Each finisher with Fidelis costs 5 energy, encouraging the user to utilize gunplay over easy finishers.

Maybe.

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Armor +5% per kill

Ally damage boost: +2.5% per kill

Maybe.

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Energy Drain 25 initially, 1 per second, increasing by 1 for every second, up to 25 energy per second, not factoring in efficiency.

Is this built on the new drain mechanics? I'd built Blade and Gun on the old one so that might explain it.

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I don't see the point in altering other abilities while Blade and Gun is active, when many of them are complex enough.

Synergy.

But as I said, Ushtar does too much stuff all at once. Some of that complexity may be moved to augments.

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Passive: How about this; Chambered Round: +10% Magazine size. As a Marine, prowess with a rifle should be innate. Since 1 chambered round is only a useful passive on very low-capacity weapons, 10% would be a reasonable alternative.

I honestly don't know. 

I'm stuck on passives. Every passive I've thought of is so orthodox-military inspired it's boring. What I want is to find that unique vision that will speak to who Ushtar is, who he's becoming, instead of the more traditional ideas that might be weighing the concept down and I can't see it.

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Please let me know if I'm fundamentally misunderstanding any particular aspect of any of the abilities. 

I think I've already done that above, but I think it's also incredibly clear from your feedback (and others) I've done a poor job defining Ushtar. I have a lot of work to do.

Ushtar is a rock the team relies on to bolster survivability, draw fire to himself/away from others, pick off hard targets, and crank out reliable DPS for himself (as well as boosting others).

Much work to be done in defining him, and plenty for me to think about, and thanks again.

On 9/1/2016 at 0:49 PM, (PS4)B_Psycho2 said:

Power 1 should be renamed

I have to ask, why?

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Power 4 should be "Fidelis"

Again, could you elaborate: why?

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I'm thinking that maybe his 4 could use a change, I dunno. Just thinking here.

I think you're going for a whole loadout thing, Two seems okay, I guess

No, actually, I'm not going for a whole loadout. He has only one unique weapon. Fidelis. Every other weapon mentioned is whatever the player has in their actual loadout. (Though the old Ushtar did once have a whole kit. Check out the older update notes.)

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Primary Weapon: Ol' Reliable: Standard Assault Rifle, looks like Halo's SMG, shoots like a Karak Wraith, Should be viable in both crit and status with okay damage as well. (dunno about damage) Crit 25 Status 25? maybe? 

Though I think you for this idea, I'm not interested in multiple (more than 1) unique weapon for Ushtar.

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Melee Weapon: Karambit: Dagger/Glaive hybrid (Throwing Knife): Same crit and status as Ol' Reliable, damage unknown. Can be used with quickmelee, hold to toss. When throwing knife is thrown, it deals an immediate slash proc and the enemy is cc'd trying to pull it out. (CC doesn't work on bosses). If quickmelee is pressed after knife is thrown, you leap to the enemy and pull it out dealing finisher damage. Can also do regular dagger quickmelee combos with it.

Karambits, from everything I've read and watched, aren't throwing weapons (glaives or daggers). It's a wholly different weapon, I'm afraid.

I like this idea as a concept, but it doesn't quite fit Ushtar's current direction.

Thank you both for your feedback. I'm in a lull as far as reworking Ushtar goes, so once I get my thinking cap on again, I'll come back to this fresh and reconsider everyone's ideas.

As far as Warframe goes, I've also got backed up feedback requests still on my to-do list, as well as some art content to make.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Rehtael7]

6 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Which, to be honest, is why it's staying in the kit. It's useful and specific. I'll consider ways to broaden it without turning Ushtar into Trinity. (Like making all his healing and boosts mechanically linked to kills, damage output, and taking damage for the team.)

Compounding Toxin resist into elemental resist would help that issue.

 

6 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

If the argument is to make them more effective, I agree. (Mend's problem is it's just not very effective, or at least I found it to be.)

Healing abilities that require setup are just dumb. When you need a heal, you don't just kinda need a heal. Warframe tends to have a finer line between 100% and dead.

 

11 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I see it as just that: a single stealth ability that promotes/helps stealth and solo gameplay. If I had my way, every 'frame would have a mechanic or ability that employed some form of stealth. For those that don't, there's Huras and Shade. 

The issue there is that it doesn't align with the rest of his kit. Warframe is thankfully stepping away from movesets that are well-rounded but unfocused. And this is honestly a part of making Ushtar not-do-everything. A solo playstyle move on a support-centric character starts to act more like wasted space. See also: Psychic bolts on Nyx, Null Star on Nova, Tailwind and Divebomb on Zephyr, and Ballistic battery on Mesa. These abilities are not offensively bad, but have no real function with the setup of their respective frames. They're just... Filler.

 

11 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

(It already is toggleable, so are you referring to ditching casting cost?)

(Yeah. Didn't realize it was a toggle based on the very steep casting cost)

 

11 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

However, making finisher kills in his 1 and 4 (and Tourniquet?) is dubious, and the drawbacks in the suggested rework seem to put Ushtar back on his OP status (something I'm still not sure has been sufficiently addressed).

I was unclear of how it functioned in those abilities.

11 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Is this built on the new drain mechanics? I'd built Blade and Gun on the old one so that might explain it.

Yes, and it's made to be more like Hysteria's drain. Dipping into this mode for brief periods of time (With the way I've proposed) would provide a tangible advantage without being too much of a burn, versus staying in it for long periods of time which although drains you, provides the kill-based buff, creating an advantage to building for one playstyle or the other.

[Rhekemi]

Coming up with a way to balance the ultimate without turning him into a male Valkyr with guns can't happen if I model it on Hysteria.

But as I said, I'll think about it, and other means of balance.

[Rhekemi]

Added Prime Lore, as narrated by Ballas, to the first post. Consider a window into the reason for Ushtar's creation and design. Read it in Ballas' voice. Picture cool stuff going down.

 

Singularity.

 

Long predicted, now realized.

 

Vanquishing this threat has justified the darkest of means.

 

Yet within darkness, we stoked a flame: vessels of sacred power.

 

Our soldiers lack fortitude: to face Tau’s demons, to follow ours into battle.

 

I will give them a leader in their image.

 

Bound by zeal, they will send this arriviste race a message: this system belongs to the empire.

 

When our forces march back across the Rail, they will chant, even as he haunts them: Ushtar.

 

Incidentally, I broke the damn first post. I'd been dreading adding new content and breaking it. Now it's broken. Really need to make the splash pages anew.

 

[(PSN)ophanim_raziel]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

Added Prime Lore, as narrated by Ballas, to the first post. Consider a window into the reason for Ushtar's creation and design. Read it in Ballas' voice. Picture cool stuff going down.

 

Singularity.

 

Long predicted, now realized.

 

Vanquishing this threat has justified the darkest of means.

 

Yet within darkness, we stoked a flame: vessels of sacred power.

 

Our soldiers lack fortitude: to face Tau’s demons, to follow ours into battle.

 

I will give them a leader in their image.

 

Bound by zeal, they will send this arriviste race a message: this system belongs to the empire.

 

When our forces march back across the Rail, they will chant, even as he haunts them: Ushtar.

 

Incidentally, I broke the damn first post. I'd been dreading adding new content and breaking it. Now it's broken. Really need to make the splash pages anew.

 

Got the chills reading this haha

[Rhekemi]

 

 

On 9/7/2016 at 4:59 PM, Rehtael7 said:

Compounding Toxin resist into elemental resist would help that issue.

I don't have her yet, but apparently Titania's first power already does this. (Grant's allies immunities to status effects, which includes the elements.)

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Healing abilities that require setup are just dumb. When you need a heal, you don't just kinda need a heal. Warframe tends to have a finer line between 100% and dead.

Yeah.

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The issue there is that it doesn't align with the rest of his kit. Warframe is thankfully stepping away from movesets that are well-rounded but unfocused. And this is honestly a part of making Ushtar not-do-everything. A solo playstyle move on a support-centric character starts to act more like wasted space. See also: Psychic bolts on Nyx, Null Star on Nova, Tailwind and Divebomb on Zephyr, and Ballistic battery on Mesa. These abilities are not offensively bad, but have no real function with the setup of their respective frames. They're just... Filler.

Good point. Will think about it.

On 9/8/2016 at 2:25 PM, (PS4)ophanim_raziel said:

Got the chills reading this haha

Thanks. :)

Edited September 10, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Rehtael7]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

I don't have her yet, but apparently Titania's first power already does this.

I meant more like those mods that provide damage resistance to elemental damage.