Forma, Braton And Braton Vandal

[IspanoLFW1]

You're right, I do pull in other games. Because it's a precedent, one that players are used to and expect. And even if they don't, many people take issue with something they cannot obtain that is better than what they have. Different looks is one thing, but in game usability starts causing issues.

 

Also, when I mentioned you fighting everything, wasn't you saying that you disagree. It was you saying that people aren't understanding your reasoning, or not listening to valid points. I never said any given thought out point was invalid. I understand your view better than you think I do. However, the I feel the problem if exclusive items with potential game effecting stats, is more important than some people's want for their special toy to be better. Which you also did claim more than once.

[Enot83]

You're correct about the Primes, as for the Braton Vandal it was made available over the first open beta weekend to anyone for those 2-3 days for 1 credit as a open beta reward/incentive.

Yeah I still don't know why anyone thinks the Braton Vandal should be "better" than the Braton. Until it *really* matters I will use the Braton Vandal every time (I'm still hoping something better than both just arbitrarily comes out), but I really still want it to be differentiated from the standard Braton. That's why my original suggestion was for raising the Braton Vandal to 25 damage, but dropping the rate of fire to 8.4.

The Lato vs Lato Vandal also shows this precedent, the two are very close to each other in terms of dps while the Braton and Braton Vandal are not.

 

 

I did miss that about your suggestion, my apologies, though honestly out of all of the people involved in this thread most of my comments have been more directed at educating them on what they keep spouting off about without any real thought.

 

To the Braton Vandal availability more for clarification, I was under the impression it was still in closed beta period, but that was an "open beta" weekend.  Was it infact during the transition from closed beta to open beta?

 

I'm still curious about weapon options due to there being aklato's, so the Lato Vandal is more flavor change from the Lato, due to their being clearly better options, and also retaining that the Aklato is still better than the Lato Prime.

 

The braton family, unfortunately does not have the same comparisons or upgrade pattern.

 

The Braton Vandal was released and had 25 Damage compared to 18 of the Braton because it was intended as the better Braton. It was nerfed down to 23 in Update 7 to mach the nerfs most other guns got because they adjusted the damage for the new mod system and it was still the better Braton... as intended. Later it was nerfed to 20 because people complained but it was still the better Braton... as intended. The Braton Vandal owners did not mind all of that because the Braton Vandal stayed true to it's flavor text and it's Vandal traits.. being the better Braton. Braton got Buffed to 20 because people continued to complain and still... barely noticable.. the Vandal was the better Braton only due to it's Polarity slot and even then the Braton Vandal owners did not spam the Forums with complain threads like the ones which lead to the Braton now having the same damage even if it's "just" a normal gun.

 

Its really funny watching you talk about things that you really don't grasp all that well.  I showed the math and comparisons, as well as the reason plznohurtme has also brought similar information to make for relevant arguments.

 

You should actually know what you're talking about, that way you don't undermine your own argument by making your arguments look unfounded and foolish.

 

Though it is obvious for you this is not about proper balance and good game development, this is selfishness to have something changed because you're upset.  If the Braton Vandal got what you asked for, you wouldn't give anything else a second thought, just like you've declined to do so thus far in this thread.  This makes you sound small minded, and again, as I said, selfish, rather than looking to further the development of the game in a coherent and well thought out manner.  In this way future problems can be avoided, because it will show clear thought processes for how decisions are made.

 

You complain about people crying on the forums being the reason the Braton Vandal is inferior.  You offer nothing but your own crying to make changes.  Pathetic.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Enot83

[Namacyst]

You should leave exclusivity out of the picture for a moment and look at it just from the Vandal-owners point of view because basically people who don't own a Braton Vandal should not care about a buff of the Braton Vandal to bring it up to normal Braton level or mabe even 5 points of DPS above because they only can use the normal Braton anyways... and if they do and complain or rant against it then they are presumably just jealous, grieving and *beep* (but i can be wrong). A closed-beta tester on the other hand who owns the Braton Vandal and can choose between both Bratons and even likes his Vandal and wants to use it without less performance ingame.. finds it unfair that the normal Braton is better. Additionally to that the Vandal trait states how a Vandal is different to a normal Braton but this difference was taken away some time ago by the Braton buff to 20 damage and if you like this supposed difference it gets even more unfair. Braton Vandal deserves a buff to be (atleast) as good as the normal Braton. That's what this is all about, exclusivity or not.

[IspanoLFW1]

You should leave exclusivity out of the picture for a moment and look at it just from the Vandal-owners point of view because basically people who don't own a Braton Vandal should not care about a buff of the Braton Vandal to bring it up to normal Braton level or mabe even 5 points of DPS above because they only can use the normal Braton anyways... and if they do and complain or rant against it then they are presumably just jealous, grieving and *beep* (but i can be wrong). A closed-beta tester on the other hand who owns the Braton Vandal and can choose between both Bratons and even likes his Vandal and wants to use it without less performance ingame.. finds it unfair that the normal Braton is better. Additionally to that the Vandal trait states how a Vandal is different to a normal Braton but this difference was taken away some time ago by the Braton buff to 20 damage and if you like this supposed difference it gets even more unfair. Braton Vandal deserves a buff to be (atleast) as good as the normal Braton. That's what this is all about, exclusivity or not.

 

Leave exclusivity out of it because those who don't have it shouldn't care? They should care that they can't get something "better" than what they have? They shouldn't care that the people who do have it, or in this case you, want to make it "better" than what they have?  I read the rest of your post, but that.... just wow. Ignorance at it's finest.

Edited June 6, 2013 by IspanoLFW1

[Enot83]

You should leave exclusivity out of the picture for a moment and look at it just from the Vandal-owners point of view because basically people who don't own a Braton Vandal should not care about a buff of the Braton Vandal to bring it up to normal Braton level or mabe even 5 points of DPS above because they only can use the normal Braton anyways... and if they do and complain or rant against it then they are presumably just jealous, grieving and *beep* (but i can be wrong). A closed-beta tester on the other hand who owns the Braton Vandal and can choose between both Bratons and even likes his Vandal and wants to use it without less performance ingame.. finds it unfair that the normal Braton is better. Additionally to that the Vandal trait states how a Vandal is different to a normal Braton but this difference was taken away some time ago by the Braton buff to 20 damage and if you like this supposed difference it gets even more unfair. Braton Vandal deserves a buff to be (atleast) as good as the normal Braton. That's what this is all about, exclusivity or not.

Willful retardation, that's why we should change things.

 

At the very least, show some line of thought that contributes other than "I want it to be better cause I'm jealous that other players who don't have it, have a better option"  As much as you attribute those countering your argument for being jealous, grieving and .... you're that exact person.

 

You need that edge don't you to compete I bet.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Enot83

[Namacyst]

To the Braton Vandal availability more for clarification, I was under the impression it was still in closed beta period, but that was an "open beta" weekend.  Was it infact during the transition from closed beta to open beta?

 

During closed beta DE had a Open-Beta weekend to test matchmaking with more players than just the closed beta players and server stresstest. Anyone could create and play Warframe during that time without needing a closed beta key. The fact that you had to buy it for 1 credit which most anti-vandal argumentations point out instantly was just because adding the weapon directly to your inventory would've only worked for the currently existing accounts. Since it was a whole weekend where anyone could make an account at any time at that weekend that would not have worked. Therefor.. 1 credit in the market.

 

Its really funny watching you talk about things that you really don't grasp all that well.  I showed the math and comparisons, as well as the reason plznohurtme has also brought similar information to make for relevant arguments.

 

You should actually know what you're talking about, that way you don't undermine your own argument by making your arguments look unfounded and foolish.

 

Though it is obvious for you this is not about proper balance and good game development, this is selfishness to have something changed because you're upset.  If the Braton Vandal got what you asked for, you wouldn't give anything else a second thought, just like you've declined to do so thus far in this thread.  This makes you sound small minded, and again, as I said, selfish, rather than looking to further the development of the game in a coherent and well thought out manner.  In this way future problems can be avoided, because it will show clear thought processes for how decisions are made.

 

You complain about people crying on the forums being the reason the Braton Vandal is inferior.  You offer nothing but your own crying to make changes.  Pathetic.

 

Yes, yes... yadda yadda.. you are the best an greates who knows everything he talks about. The reason i don't do exact math is because i suck at math and if i used numbers to reflect some potential changes i'd like to see then it's just a vague representation of.. well.. what i'd like to see. Balancing is done by DE, they do what they want. I don't have a say anyways and neither have you with your gorgeous math.

 

My quote by the way is the history of the Braton Vandal (more or less, could be wrong with some numbers but hey, thats who i am.. bad with numbers). All that did happen but i guess youre not "with us" long enough to have been there. I'm not upset ;) rather the contrary. I enjoy discussing the Bratons here. If i were upset i would now be ranting about your namecalling, pseudo-educated bullS#&$ting and stuff but i really don't care ^^ You have your opinion, i have mine and that's quite fine. I repeat the last sentence of the first Post: Keep it civil!

[plznohurtme]

That could actually make it much better than it is now, especially if you use it for things other than close/mid range spraying. It makes the small accuracy difference, even more potent since each round is now worth more.

I'm assuming you don't have a Braton Vandal? If not, you should read about what myself and everyone else who has used both has said. Unless you are holding down fire spraying there is no difference in the actual use of the two weapons, short bursts on each react the same.

 

I did miss that about your suggestion, my apologies, though honestly out of all of the people involved in this thread most of my comments have been more directed at educating them on what they keep spouting off about without any real thought.

 

To the Braton Vandal availability more for clarification, I was under the impression it was still in closed beta period, but that was an "open beta" weekend.  Was it infact during the transition from closed beta to open beta?

 

I'm still curious about weapon options due to there being aklato's, so the Lato Vandal is more flavor change from the Lato, due to their being clearly better options, and also retaining that the Aklato is still better than the Lato Prime.

 

The braton family, unfortunately does not have the same comparisons or upgrade pattern.

Yeah it was just a weekend, I believe it was about a month before the closed -> open transition.

 

As for the Lato comparison, personally I just look at it between Lato/Lato Prime/Lato Vandal because the accuracy and clip sizes are pretty different when dealing with AK weapons now.

 

Its really funny watching you talk about things that you really don't grasp all that well.  I showed the math and comparisons, as well as the reason plznohurtme has also brought similar information to make for relevant arguments.

 

You should actually know what you're talking about, that way you don't undermine your own argument by making your arguments look unfounded and foolish.

 

Though it is obvious for you this is not about proper balance and good game development, this is selfishness to have something changed because you're upset.  If the Braton Vandal got what you asked for, you wouldn't give anything else a second thought, just like you've declined to do so thus far in this thread.  This makes you sound small minded, and again, as I said, selfish, rather than looking to further the development of the game in a coherent and well thought out manner.  In this way future problems can be avoided, because it will show clear thought processes for how decisions are made.

 

You complain about people crying on the forums being the reason the Braton Vandal is inferior.  You offer nothing but your own crying to make changes.  Pathetic.

Not sure why he thinks that it's okay for the Braton Vandal to be better. Talking primary weapons especially exclusive weapons should be viable (meaning close to/equal to their standard counterparts) but there is quite literally no good reason for them to be better. People as a general rule are petty and newer players who aren't able to get it will be frustrated by this fact so long as it remained best in class.

Edited June 6, 2013 by plznohurtme

[Namacyst]

Leave exclusivity out of it because those who don't have it shouldn't care? They should care that they can't get something "better" than what they have? They shouldn't care that the people who do have it, or in this case you, want to make it "better" than what they have?  I read the rest of your post, but that.... just wow. Ignorance at it's finest.

Why is the normal Braton so much better than the Braton Vandal?

Edited June 6, 2013 by Namacyst

[IspanoLFW1]

I'm assuming you don't have a Braton Vandal? If not, you should read about what myself and everyone else who has used both has said. Unless you are holding down fire spraying there is no difference in the actual use of the two weapons, short bursts on each react the same.

 

I never said I did or did not have it. I have exclusive items in this game, but I refuse to use them. Yes, that's my choice, and my reasoning is all over this thread. I've tested other similar weapons with differences in accuracy(Not different types, but Lato/Aklato as an example) and I can most certainly tell the difference, full auto or not. Bursts or not.

[Enot83]

 

-snip- due to terrible forum habits

 

 

 

Yah, you have opinions, we already know this.  I brought facts forth, and in your ignorance didn't even realize that I gave you an argument for the braton vandal to be improved.  You are making yourself look worse with every post, and diminishing the quality of the conversation and discussion in the thread.

 

 

 

Why is the normal Braton so much worse than the Braton Vandal?

Due to the Braton Vandal being imbalanced in the first place and the Braton being underpowered in comparison to other primary weapons, excluding the Braton Vandal, the Braton was not a good primary in comparison to other primary weapons.

 

 

 

The fact that you had to buy it for 1 credit which most anti-vandal argumentations point out instantly was just because adding the weapon directly to your inventory would've only worked for the currently existing accounts. Since it was a whole weekend where anyone could make an account at any time at that weekend that would not have worked. Therefor.. 1 credit in the market.

 

This is incorrect, weapons are given to players upon account creation already, they could have simply added it to the list of weapons given to players upon starting, in addition to adding it to those already existing accounts.  You really should start refraining from posting before you undermine yourself further.

 

As for the Lato comparison, personally I just look at it between Lato/Lato Prime/Lato Vandal because the accuracy and clip sizes are pretty different when dealing with AK weapons now.

 

Understandable, though on that same note, the MK1 clip is different too ~_^ haha.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Enot83

[IspanoLFW1]

Why is the normal Braton so much worse than the Braton Vandal?

 

In Accuracy(Because like I told plz, I can tell the difference) and burst control. At longer ranges, since this is you know, an all around weapon, it helps a decent amount. That may fit mine or other's play style much better. But some do not have access to such a weapon and have to settle for something that is worse for how they use that type of gun.

[plznohurtme]

I never said I did or did not have it. I have exclusive items in this game, but I refuse to use them. Yes, that's my choice, and my reasoning is all over this thread. I've tested other similar weapons with differences in accuracy(Not different types, but Lato/Aklato as an example) and I can most certainly tell the difference, full auto or not. Bursts or not.

Then don't just assume that it's the same here. End of story. Just because you've tested "other weapons" of which I can say with utmost certainty there is no comparison (recoil/spray patterns vary not to mention your example lato versus aklato is over a 40% accuracy variation while braton v braton vandal is about 14%) does not mean this is the same case. Please don't speak like your opinion of something you have not personally utilized in the same capacity is a fact or the truth, because you don't know.

[IspanoLFW1]

Then don't just assume that it's the same here. End of story. Just because you've tested "other weapons" of which I can say with utmost certainty there is no comparison (recoil/spray patterns vary not to mention your example lato versus aklato is over a 40% accuracy variation while braton v braton vandal is about 14%) does not mean this is the same case. Please don't speak like your opinion of something you have not personally utilized in the same capacity is a fact or the truth, because you don't know.

 

Sorry, but I will. My experience with just about every other weapon in this game and their accuracy differences, in other games. At long ranges and short. So, again, I WILL.

 

And that's the thing, people can form opinions on things they haven't used, and those backed by experience tend to be better. If I was willing to use exclusive items such as these, I would prove it instead of forming the opinion. Telling them they are not allowed to do so or should not, might want to take their own advice.

Edited June 6, 2013 by IspanoLFW1

[Enot83]

Then don't just assume that it's the same here. End of story. Just because you've tested "other weapons" of which I can say with utmost certainty there is no comparison (recoil/spray patterns vary not to mention your example lato versus aklato is over a 40% accuracy variation while braton v braton vandal is about 14%) does not mean this is the same case. Please don't speak like your opinion of something you have not personally utilized in the same capacity is a fact or the truth, because you don't know.

 

If you have time or are up to it, would you be available to see what the spread difference is holding the trigger down on each at maybe a shot, medium and long distance?

 

I think this would put this to rest, potentially even give us some information on the accuracy figures on these weapons as well.

 

Could do, aimed/hip fire in this too, might be another factor.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Enot83

[Namacyst]

This is incorrect, weapons are given to players upon account creation already, they could have simply added it to the list of weapons given to players upon starting, in addition to adding it to those already existing accounts.  You really should start refraining from posting before you undermine yourself further.

It's not about right or wrong rather than the fact that you don't like me and now try your best to piss me off with your namecalling and rude behaviour. Bad Forum habits ring a bell? I'm really not that much of a threat for you as you try to make me because i don't care about you as long as you don't have anything good to say. So, as i said... i don't care about you. Take it easy ;)

 

All i did was tell you how they handeled the situation. Sure they could have given every newly created account the Braton Vandal from the start but it seems it was easier for them to just add it to the market for 1 credit.

[Enot83]

It's not about right or wrong rather than the fact that you don't like me and now try your best to &!$$ me off with your namecalling and rude behaviour. Bad Forum habits ring a bell? I'm really not that much of a threat for you as you try to make me because i don't care about you as long as you don't have anything good to say. So, as i said... i don't care about you. Take it easy ;)

 

All i did was tell you how they handeled the situation. Sure they could have given every newly created account the Braton Vandal from the start but it seems it was easier for them to just add it to the market for 1 credit.

 

You are wrong, and you sound foolish, and are proliferating idiocy on the forums while at the same time not contributing to constructive conversation.

[Namacyst]

You are wrong, and you sound foolish, and are proliferating idiocy on the forums while at the same time not contributing to constructive conversation.

Then ignore me, i don't mind that at all. Saves you the ranting, flaming, namecalling and whatelse you think is appropriate for me so you have more time to post truth, facts and fancy numbers because everything you say is so right. Ya!

 

But...

 

Changes nothing for me thinking that the Braton Vandal deserves to be buffed until it is atleast as good as the normal Braton and that the buff should reflect the Vandal traits.

 

cheers ;)

Edited June 6, 2013 by Namacyst

[plznohurtme]

Sorry, but I will. My experience with just about every other weapon in this game and their accuracy differences, in other games. At long ranges and short. So, again, I WILL.

 

And that's the thing, people can form opinions on things they haven't used, and those backed by experience tend to be better. If I was willing to use exclusive items such as these, I would prove it instead of forming the opinion. Telling them they are not allowed to do so or should not, might want to take their own advice.

I'm suggesting that you listen to people who have actually used the weapons (if you go through the thread every single person who has says there isn't a noticeable difference) rather than making up your own opinion based off no actual evidence.

 

If you have time or are up to it, would you be available to see what the spread difference is holding the trigger down on each at maybe a shot, medium and long distance?

 

I think this would put this to rest, potentially even give us some information on the accuracy figures on these weapons as well.

 

Could do, aimed/hip fire in this too, might be another factor.

Braton:

Braton Vandal:

I'm not going to waste a ton of my time testing all the alternative ways that they could be used due to the procedural manner of the levels getting a wall that bullet holes show up on was annoying enough. I tried to get the burst similarly down on both and full auto is obvious.