Why Is Dera Even Worse Than Grakata?

[Kordy]

It can't even break open containers with one shot!

 

 

How do you expect me to kill grineer with it, DE?

 

 

Unlike Grakata, I actually had to use a forma on this piece of S#&$.

 

I don't want my forma back though, I want to have fun while using the weapons my clan researched and I crafted.

 

So yeah here's your beta test results on Grakata, Ignis and Dera. They're S#&$, buff them ASAP.

 

Hell, why are the shots originating from my frame's chest? IS IT THE POWER OF HEART OR SOMETHING?

Edited June 4, 2013 by Kordy

[Tulzscha]

Just in case the OP missed it:

 

"R&D WEAPONS: A few desperately need a buff. We've got custom animations and balance changes to a few of these coming. These did come in hot and we didn't get enough animation support (animation team was slammed with our big top-secret E3 thing). Will magically get better soon."

 

source: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/

[Venarge]

okok. So you expect a level 1 weapon to make more damage on lvl 15 enemies...

Ehm well.... There is nothing I can say. Thats just hilarious

Edited June 4, 2013 by Venarge

[Kordy]

okok. So you expect a level 1 weapon to make more damage on lvl 15 enemies...

Ehm well.... There is nothing I can say. Thats just hilarious

Yes, I do. 

 

A level 1 braton mk1, THE STARTER WEAPON can do more damage.

 

Level 15 is nowhere near the endgame either.

[Kordy]

Just in case the OP missed it:

 

"R&D WEAPONS: A few desperately need a buff. We've got custom animations and balance changes to a few of these coming. These did come in hot and we didn't get enough animation support (animation team was slammed with our big top-secret E3 thing). Will magically get better soon."

 

source: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/

 

Everyone in my clan donated resources for this, and I wasted a forma on this. I don't want soon™, I want a date.

[Venarge]

Yes, I do. 

 

A level 1 braton mk1, THE STARTER WEAPON can do more damage.

 

Level 15 is nowhere near the endgame either.

So what. Grakata is sh*** at the beginning too. And later, it becomes a beast.

[Vabla]

I was half expecting Dera to be a resonator rifle of some sort. You know, the more you hit a target, the more the damage goes up. But it's doing less damage than a disco laser :/

Also note the projectiles are coming from the wrong spot.

 

Well, waiting for the dojo un-nerf.

 

So what. Grakata is sh*** at the beginning too. And later, it becomes a beast.

That's because it's based on criticals. Dera can't crit at all.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Vabla

[Blackjammer]

Does it even hurt corpus by a reasonable amount?

Actually don't answer that, we know it doesn't.

[Strac_CRO]

add some mods, weapon is just fine

[Sanev_Khan]

Yes, I do. 

 

A level 1 braton mk1, THE STARTER WEAPON can do more damage.

 

Level 15 is nowhere near the endgame either.

 

Yes. I just tried it on lvl 17 enemies, my unranked MK-1 Braton does 4 times the Dera's damage. (MK1-Braton base damage is 16 and Dera's is 7.)

That is, 16 on light armoured and 4 on heavy grineers.

[Kordy]

So what. Grakata is sh*** at the beginning too. And later, it becomes a beast.

 

I can make a braton into a beast without even a tater.

 

Grakata needs a tater and possibly a forma.

 

 

 

add some mods, weapon is just fine

 

Do you even have a level 10 serration?

 

I do.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't turn Grakata/Dera into good weapons magically.

 

 

Even Braton MK1 is better than them.

 

Let's do some math. Grakata's base damage is 9. Serration at max level gives a 165% bonus damage.

 

What would be the damage of 1 grakata bullet with max serration? 9 + 9*1,65 = 24

 

GORGON's base damage is 24.

 

What would be the damage of 1 braton mk1 bullet? 16 + 16*1,65 = 42.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Kordy

[Kordy]

If you're not going to buff it anytime soonish can you guys at least rename it to DERABLE?

 

tyia

[Meepsauce]

I found this silly when such weapons were added at all. Twin Vipers have higher stats than Grakata and Dera and they're secondary weapons. Flux rifle will be the third to this list, I assume.

 

EDIT: We already have the Ignis adding to this list. Flux rifle will be fourth.

 

Also, since secondary weapons can get 220% damage and 120% multishot, they scale far more. So, vipers are 220% damage of 16 with 120% multishot. Dera is 165% of 7 damage with 90% multishot and a higher innate fire rate.

 

Also OP, what you use for such beautiful gifs?

Edited June 4, 2013 by Meepsauce

[Spat80Lad]

You really can't just compare damages though. You need to include rate of fire as well. mk1 braton = 16*6.3 = 100.8 and grakata = 9*20 = 180. therefore not just considering 1 bullet but a certain time of firing (e.g. 5 secs) the grakata wins. If you want 1 shot 1 kill get a Hek

[Kordy]

As long as armor remains, damage per bullet is still important, too. There's limited mod slots and mod points on weapons, after all.

[Deicul]

Derrible, simply derrible.

[Vabla]

Let's do some math. Grakata's base damage is 9. Serration at max level gives a 165% bonus damage.

 

What would be the damage of 1 grakata bullet with max serration? 9 + 9*1,65 = 24

 

GORGON's base damage is 24.

 

What would be the damage of 1 braton mk1 bullet? 16 + 16*1,65 = 42.

You're doing it wrong. The whole point to Grakata is criticals and with the two maxed crit mods it's average base damage per bullet is 20. Of course that comes at the cost of two mod slots and points but it can be turned into a somewhat beastly gun. Not going to bother myself though, doesn't leave any room for utility mods.

[Kantazo]

I think desaster could be a better name

[Bakim0n0]

The simple fact that grakata needs you to load out full ammo boxes to take on defense maps that actually go anywhere is very telling.

Grakata is not a bad gun by any means just... basically every other primary is better when it matters. (no, normal missions and even boss runs doesn't really matter; every gun potatoed, maxed and decently modded will breeze you through it)

That being said... DE already knows the clan weapons are majorly borked... they didn't expect us to be getting there for a good month or so (in other words they were projecting that they had time to actually fix them before people started using them)

They can't give you an exact time frame because they've got a lot going on and frankly... I would much rather them actually do the work then spend time trying to give us ETA's on every scrap of work they have; just knowing they are aware of it and are working on it is enough IMHO.


After all that... it's STILL a better gun than the Horrid Torid xD

[thatsleepyguy]

You really can't just compare damages though. You need to include rate of fire as well. mk1 braton = 16*6.3 = 100.8 and grakata = 9*20 = 180. therefore not just considering 1 bullet but a certain time of firing (e.g. 5 secs) the grakata wins. If you want 1 shot 1 kill get a Hek

Okay, let's do that. Let's take rate of fire into account as well when comparing the dera to the grakata.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Grakata

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Dera

According to the wiki, the grakata has a rate of fire of 20 and a base damage of 9 per projectile. The dera, on the other hand, has an even lower damage of 9 per projectile, and a rate of fire barely more than half of that of the grakata's, at 11.3.

 

Most people would consider the Grineer gun's standard damage output to be lackluster, but now it's meant for crits, and speccing as such will turn it into a very workable weapon. However, the dera has stats losing even to the underwhelming grakata, with no chance of crits or any gimmick that gives it an advantage. Yes, it's more accurate, but there's not much point to that accuracy given how slow its projectiles are.

 

Point is is that it's crap and if you think otherwise you're wrong.

[Kordy]

You're doing it wrong. The whole point to Grakata is criticals and with the two maxed crit mods it's average base damage per bullet is 20. Of course that comes at the cost of two mod slots and points but it can be turned into a somewhat beastly gun. Not going to bother myself though, doesn't leave any room for utility mods.

 

Every elemental mod, including armor piercing, works on base damage though.

 

You can't just ignore base damage.

 

Crit damage is base damage * 1.5, modified by either crit damage or base damage, too.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Kordy

[Kordy]

While changing the Dera into DERABLE why not change Torid into HORRID as well DE

[Vabla]

Every elemental mod, including armor piercing, works on base damage though.

 

You can't just ignore base damage.

 

Crit damage is base damage * 1.5, modified by either crit damage or base damage, too.

I'm not ignoring base damage. I'm just calculating average damage per bullet when counting criticals. Since elements can crit as well, that can be used as an adjusted base damage for comparison and further calculations. As long as you remember that it took 2 mods that are far far weaker on almost every gun to reach.

 

P.S. I'm basing my calculations on numbers provided on the wiki. If those are wrong then so are my numbers.

[Painmak3r]

While changing the Dera into DERABLE why not change Torid into HORRID as well DE

But torid is good for raisins I will not mention.

[MoonicusMaximus]

It's funny because in that gif, you are using an extremely precise repeating weapon to body-shot Grineer like you're hip-firing an SMG.

 

Try making some consecutive headshots with it. I don't disagree the the Dera needs some work, but good Lord, if you're going to complain about how bad a weapon is, at least use it to its effective extent.

Edited June 4, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus