Frost Alt Helmet A Downgrade (If My Math Is Correct)

[Snowball]

So I decided to find out if using the frosts alt helm (Aurora) would benefit you, or hurt you.

 

Assume You have a frost rank 30, with no Vitality or Steel Fibre mods

 

From what I understand, damage is reduced by armour, and damage reduced by armour is calculated by "Armour/(Armour + 100).

 

With Aurora, you have 199.5 armour, with 285 HP. 199.5 armour is .666 reduction, or about 67%.

 

When you take that .666 and get the recipricol, you get 1.501.

 

1.501 * 285 gives a possible total amount of damage thrown at you to be 427.9

 

Stock you would have 60% reduction for a total of 500 damage thrown at you.

 

Now my math might be off, I might have the calculations screwed and these may be completely wrong, so I would like a second opinion, showing work as I have so I don't get "you're wrong this is the answer." 

 

Feedback would be apprieciated

 

 

[unmog]

Assume You have a frost rank 30, with no Vitality or Steel Fibre mods

Why would you do this? Steel fibre is basically made for frost and rhino, given that they have the highest armor in the game and it would have the biggest boost from the mod? Plus everyone needs at least a little vitality, apparently youve never fought a poison ancient.

 

As for the math, can check the wiki for this.

 

 

(armor)/(armor+100) = Damage Reduction 

This works out to ~9% damage mitigation for 10 armor frames, ~33% damage mitigation for 50 armor frames, 50% mitigation for 100 armor frames, and 60% mitigation for 150 armor frames. 

Alternatively, armor can be thought of in terms of its equivalent benefit in health. Each point of armor is equivalent to +1% total Health.

 

 

So going off that information, 33% more armor for Frost is huge compared to the 5% less health. I just wonder if the extra armor from the helmet is boosted by the steel fibre mod, if so even MORE awesome. Plus that means each health orb you pick up is worth more for your total health. Id rather have 99% armor to reduce all my damage to like 1 and have significantly less health really, that extreme example means anytime Im healed [aka red orb, or rejuvination artifact, or trinity's heals etc] heals me for significantly more.

 

Plus his high shields mean you wont be taking as much health damage regardless, not to mention clever use of snowglobe means he wont be taking any damage at all most times. Hes pretty much the tankiest tank but has powers to help the whole party not just himself like rhino.

Edited June 5, 2013 by unmog

[NotaCobra]

EDITED TO FIX A STUPID MISTAKE ON MY PART (I had forgotten vitality bonus is based on base health, not max)

 

Base health = 300

Base health with max vitality = 640

Base armour = 150

Armour mitigation multiplier = 0.4 (multiplies all incoming damage by this much) [forumla is 100/(100+armor value)]

 

Effective health with max vitality = 1600 damage (The equivalent health you have assuming you had no armor at all) [formula is HP/mitigation multiplier]

 

Health with max viatlity after reduction from helmet = 608

Base armour with helmet = 199.5

Armour mitigation mutliplier with helmet = 0.33389

 

Effective max health with max vitality and alternate helmet = 1821

 

 

So no, the hat is beneficial to your total effective health.

 

 

The problem is actually with the steel fibre mod, it really doesn't give you much armour at all

Edited June 5, 2013 by NotaCobra

[Snowball]

Base health = 300

Base health with max vitality = 1320

Base armour = 150

Armour mitigation multiplier = 0.4 (multiplies all incoming damage by this much) [forumla is 100/(100+armor value)]

 

Effective health with max vitality = 3300 damage (The equivalent health you have assuming you had no armor at all) [formula is HP/mitigation multiplier]

 

Health with max viatlity after reduction from helmet = 1254

Base armour with helmet = 199.5

Armour mitigation mutliplier with helmet = 0.33389

 

Effective max health with max vitality and alternate helmet = 3756

 

 

So no, the hat is beneficial to your total effective health.

 

 

The problem is actually with the steel fibre mod, it really doesn't give you much armour at all

 

Please read my post again. I said assume you have a rank 30 frost with no Vitality mods.

EDIT: Also, you did the math on Vitality wrong. It uses your health at rank 1, not current rank

Edited June 5, 2013 by Red_Sun

[NotaCobra]

Please read my post again. I said assume you have a rank 30 frost with no Vitality mods.

-sigh- it's all based on percentages, so the result is the same.

Plus, you SHOULD have vitality mods.

 

Anyway, let's do it again:

 

Base health = 300

Base armour = 150

Mitigation multiplier = 0.4

 

Effective health = 750

 

Base health with helmet = 285

Base armour with helmet = 199.5

migitation multiplier = 0.33389

 

Effective health with helmet = 853.575

 

QED

Edited June 5, 2013 by NotaCobra

[unmog]

The problem is actually with the steel fibre mod, it really doesn't give you much armour at all

You sure? It said this on the wiki about steel fiber.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Steel_Fiber

 

Bottom line... Frost has 60% base armor reduction. With helm he has 66% armor reduction. With max steel fiber he has 75.9% armor reduction. With max steel fiber and helm he has 80.77% armor reduction. Looks worth it to me... >.>

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Base health = 300

Base health with max vitality = 1320

Base armour = 150

Armour mitigation multiplier = 0.4 (multiplies all incoming damage by this much) [forumla is 100/(100+armor value)]

 

Effective health with max vitality = 3300 damage (The equivalent health you have assuming you had no armor at all) [formula is HP/mitigation multiplier]

 

Health with max viatlity after reduction from helmet = 1254

Base armour with helmet = 199.5

Armour mitigation mutliplier with helmet = 0.33389

 

Effective max health with max vitality and alternate helmet = 3756

 

 

So no, the hat is beneficial to your total effective health.

 

 

The problem is actually with the steel fibre mod, it really doesn't give you much armour at all

A problem with your math is that he can reach a max HP of ~700 as vitality affects lvl 0 HP, not level 30

[NotaCobra]

A problem with your math is that he can reach a max HP of ~700 as vitality affects lvl 0 HP, not level 30

Ah, I had forgotten that, but again, it's all percentages, so the difference remains the same.

 

EDIT:

Fixed it, helmet is still better

Edited June 5, 2013 by NotaCobra

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Ah, I had forgotten that, but again, it's all percentages, so the difference remains the same.

yeah, just wanted to correct you on that, but yeah the hat is GOOD for your HP.

[NovaKiller]

Hats good for your health?

Say that to TF2

 

Nah but really, the helmet is better.

And anyway i can't really see it being usefull to try and find numbers on something that people most likely aint gonna do.

[unmog]

Especially when like notacobra said, its all about percentages. Sure ya may have a little less health, but that means percentage wise anytime you heal you heal for a higher percentage as well, and your overall health goes higher. The "only" downside I know is you have less total health against poison since that ignores armor. Solution? Dont stand in a poison cloud. Easily avoidable...

[NotaCobra]

You sure? It said this on the wiki about steel fiber.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Steel_Fiber

 

Bottom line... Frost has 60% base armor reduction. With helm he has 66% armor reduction. With max steel fiber he has 75.9% armor reduction. With max steel fiber and helm he has 80.77% armor reduction. Looks worth it to me... >.>

 

Nyeh... it's useful, but remember it's 14 mod points and a slot less, it only increases his damage reduction by about 15% when in the same place you could have flow, stretch or continuity.

[Snowball]

Especially when like notacobra said, its all about percentages. Sure ya may have a little less health, but that means percentage wise anytime you heal you heal for a higher percentage as well, and your overall health goes higher. The "only" downside I know is you have less total health against poison since that ignores armor. Solution? Dont stand in a poison cloud. Easily avoidable...

You should know that percentage on armour doesn't increase the amount if damage mitigation by 33%, but only about 7% extra. On 100 health it may be better, but armour does not rise with health, so it's actually a downgrade.

[unmog]

Nyeh... it's useful, but remember it's 14 mod points and a slot less, it only increases his damage reduction by about 15% when in the same place you could have flow, stretch or continuity.

7 with a polarity slot :) Easily more viable now at least than it was before

[unmog]

You should know that percentage on armour doesn't increase the amount if damage mitigation by 33%, but only about 7% extra. On 100 health it may be better, but armour does not rise with health, so it's actually a downgrade.

Sorry for double posting.

 

Actually it isnt a downgrade, since armor works by a percentage, at all levels regardless, and losing a percentage of health even at high level is the same percentage at level 0 as it is as level 30. So yes, you lose 5% health at all level, and take 6% less damage at all levels. Even with a max level steel fibre the loss of 5% health is for like 4.9% less damage, and thats at 80%+ damage resistance. Id rather have that so all the health I heal counts for more... again were talking total health and healing, with percentages.

[NotaCobra]

You should know that percentage on armour doesn't increase the amount if damage mitigation by 33%, but only about 7% extra. On 100 health it may be better, but armour does not rise with health, so it's actually a downgrade.

except that it's actually not, as evidenced by the 2 posts I made.

[Snowball]

Nyeh... it's useful, but remember it's 14 mod points and a slot less, it only increases his damage reduction by about 15% when in the same place you could have flow, stretch or continuity.

But it's not 15% extra reduction. It's 10% armour and that would mean 7% less at level 0.

Many of these responses haven't done much math other than Cobra, and I don't see how he got over 800 health. Also for future reference since it wasn't clear enough in OP; ASSUME YOU HAVE A RANK 30 FROST WITH NO VITALITY MOD. Also since I forgot to add this, ASSUME YOU HAVE NO STEEL FIBRE.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

But it's not 15% extra reduction. It's 10% armour and that would mean 7% less at level 0.

Many of these responses haven't done much math other than Cobra, and I don't see how he got over 800 health. Also for future reference since it wasn't clear enough in OP; ASSUME YOU HAVE A RANK 30 FROST WITH NO VITALITY MOD. Also since I forgot to add this, ASSUME YOU HAVE NO STEEL FIBRE.

100 hp - 5% = 5 hp lost.

The ~7% increase in armor means, effectively, 7 hp gained, net gain of 2, per 100 hp.

That's level 0.

 

edit: Or are you talking about something else and I misinterpreted it?

Edited June 5, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Snowball]

100 hp - 5% = 5 hp lost.

The ~7% increase in armor means, effectively, 7 hp gained, net gain of 2, per 100 hp.

That's level 0.

 

edit: Or are you talking about something else and I misinterpreted it?

Read OP. Math is all there.

[NotaCobra]

But it's not 15% extra reduction. It's 10% armour and that would mean 7% less at level 0.

 

Steel fibre is not "10% armour", at max rank it's 110% increased armour

On a frost with the alternate helmet, that brings you to a total of 420 armour, which results in ~80.5% damage mitigation, around 15% more than just the helmet on frost (no steel fibre)

 

Part of me wonders if you're bothering to read the posts before you argue.

[unmog]

But it's not 15% extra reduction. It's 10% armour and that would mean 7% less at level 0.

Many of these responses haven't done much math other than Cobra, and I don't see how he got over 800 health. Also for future reference since it wasn't clear enough in OP; ASSUME YOU HAVE A RANK 30 FROST WITH NO VITALITY MOD. Also since I forgot to add this, ASSUME YOU HAVE NO STEEL FIBRE.

Well like I mentioned, theres no reason to not have a vitality mod... and it all works by percentages so vitality mod or not it makes no difference in total health difference. Armor just gives you a percentage more maximum health by lowering all damage done to you...

 

Also like I mentioned, steel fibre works best for frames with high armor anyway so theres no real reason to not use it if you have room. But again, it works with percentages. 

Read OP. Math is all there.

That seemed kinda rude... like ignoring him or brushing him off. Kinda think maybe he's not the only one either. So I figure we've all pretty much explained why the helmet is good well enough already, so I'm going to leave the thread now. Not sure what else you're not understanding really. I wish I had an aura helm for my frost prime though, but no one can force you to use it if your not convinced.

[Snowball]

Steel fibre is not "10% armour", at max rank it's 110% increased armour

On a frost with the alternate helmet, that brings you to a total of 420 armour, which results in ~80.5% damage mitigation, around 15% more than just the helmet on frost (no steel fibre)

 

Part of me wonders if you're bothering to read the posts before you argue.

You wonder if I read posts, yet ignore the fact that I said it is 10% more armour at level 0? Then I go and explain how much extra mitigation with the level 0 mod is. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.

[NotaCobra]

You wonder if I read posts, yet ignore the fact that I said it is 10% more armour at level 0? Then I go and explain how much extra mitigation with the level 0 mod is. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.

But why are you talking about the level 0 mod?

Nobody else did.

 

Eh, whatever, this thread is dissolving into squabbles

 

I answered OP's question, thread's done, I'm out.

Edited June 5, 2013 by NotaCobra

[Snowball]

That seemed kinda rude... like ignoring him or brushing him off. Kinda think maybe he's not the only one either. So I figure we've all pretty much explained why the helmet is good well enough already, so I'm going to leave the thread now. Not sure what else you're not understanding really. I wish I had an aura helm for my frost prime though, but no one can force you to use it if your not convinced.

I apologize if it came off rude, I mearly tld him where to look for math so he can help discuss. As for explaining why it's better, you have not helped. One person has been actively discussing this using math and calculations, and that is NotACobra.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Read OP. Math is all there.

Hm doing the math you're right. (I think)

I was factoring in the base 100, but forgot the -5%hp

 

lose 5% hp, so at 100hp, you lose, which brings your hp to 95. However, you can now 67% more damage, compared to 60% which is

95 * 1.67 = 158.65

vs

100 * 1.6 = 160. (1.35 difference)

 

However at level 30:

300 * 1.6 = 480

vs

285 * 1.67 = 475.95 (4.05 difference)

 

and with a 200% vitality mod:

500 * 1.6 = 800

vs

475 * 1.67 = 793.25 (6.75 difference)

 

still doing math wrong

 

So the less HP you have, the better it is, and the more you have, the WORSE the helmet is. (Or am I doing this math wrong?)

edit: were you rude? not really, I just neglected to remember to remove the 5% hp loss (which affects total HP after all mods)

Edited June 5, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1