Shouldn't "stealth Executions" Do More Damage?

[Linkedwulf]

I know it's been addressed in quite a few livestreams that it certainly will not be an instant kill which i totally understand. But at the moment the damage buff you get for sneaking up on an enemy from behind and exposing yourself for a second while you watch the nifty animation is really small. With almost any weapon a simple charge attack will yield more damage, lets you move a lot quicker again and can even hit more enemies in one stroke in some situations. It feels really underwhelming, sure it has nice animations but i really wish it would at least outdamage a charge attack.

 

So can we buff the bonus damage a bit?

[MetalGerbil]

comparing it to charge attacks is rather unfair. you get a mod that boost that damage too much. when compared to other attacks like slide attack or jump attack you get far similar numbers.

on that note, i think a sleath attack mod might be neat.

[AltusLive]

I think it should be a 1 hit kill. Honestly I've all but given up on stealth kills. I'm sick of watching the animation happen, only to watch a Corpus crewman run away and activate the warning panel.

[EdgeKasim]

they do a fair amount of damage, i use them whenever i can, and i tend to 1 shot even things on pluto with it. maybe you should try improving the mods on your gear.

 

a strait out 1 shot would be a definite no as it would mean a fresh player that gets kited to the harder areas could just waltz on through like it was nothing.

 

as for the comparison between charge and stealth, its not really a fair comparison as charges vary quite a bit dapending on the wepon, as well as having a mod that can increase its damage output by quite a bit.

 

the idea of stelth specific mods tho sounds like a really nice idea

[Thlurp]

isnt it best to use high crit weapons for stealth kills? (dual zoren, plasma sword etc.)

 

the other problem is the critmod being pathetic, 30% on max rank (32.5% final crit for dual zoren)

melee mods really need an overhaul

[Linkedwulf]

comparing it to charge attacks is rather unfair. you get a mod that boost that damage too much. when compared to other attacks like slide attack or jump attack you get far similar numbers.

 

Yes you get mods that improve charge attack damage however i was referring to an absolutely unmodded charge attack. I chose charge attacks as comparison, because they need a similar time investment to charge up and a lot of them are single target. If you compare it to slide/jump attack with their mobility and standard aoe it still draws the short stick even though the numbers are more similar.

 

 

I think it should be a 1 hit kill.

But then you could 1 hit kill a level 100 enemy with a level 0 warframe and a level 0 weapon. Damage multiplication is fine, i just think it should be buffed.

 

 

they do a fair amount of damage, i use them whenever i can, and i tend to 1 shot even things on pluto with it. maybe you should try improving the mods on your gear.

So how much damage do you do with a normal, jump or slide attack (fine no charging then)? It's not about them doing not enough damage for specific enemies it's about the amount of the boost you get.

[Grilleds]

*stealth kills a low level charger, watches my Warframe jump right on them and stab them, only for the charger to survive, then charge attacks another charger and kills them in 1 hit*

Stealth kill damage should be improvable with mods. Otherwise there is no reason to ever do them outside of low level missions.

[EdgeKasim]

So how much damage do you do with a normal, jump or slide attack (fine no charging then)? It's not about them doing not enough damage for specific enemies it's about the amount of the boost you get.

 

i use the DHS so my normal attack is pretty crummy, i basicly have to use charge to kill things, i use to have all 4 elements on along with normal and chrg dmg+ as well as atk speed and chrg speed, but i dropped 1 element so i could max all the others, this will be changed after i forma it, then i expect ill be doing more damage than ever.  with its current setup i have no trouble charge attacking phorid to death in arround 10-15 hits

Edited June 6, 2013 by EdgeKasim

[SnokyoDrift]

With almost any weapon a simple charge attack will yield more damage,

 

Since stealth attacks deal double your charge damage to a single target, what weapons have a charge attack that does more damage than double their own damage?

[Linkedwulf]

Since stealth attacks deal double your charge damage to a single target, what weapons have a charge attack that does more damage than double their own damage?

Heh... you're right. I need to stop jumping to conclusions too fast and making a fool out of myself. Guess i shouldn't have fully unmodded my fang and tested it with that. It only takes one of the 2 charge hits and doubles that making it effectively the same unless you crit.

 

So +charge dmg mods is the only way to increase the damage of stealth attacks hmm i think i'll vote for seperate mods too. Still not sure if i find chargex2 the best solution for dmg calculation but i'll sleep over it before i make myself look even foolisher.

[Endrance]

Stealth should always be 1hit KO. Period.

 

There are enemies already immune to stealth attack, so there is no way Stealth could be Overpowered. I'ts absurd to cut the throat of a enemy, just to see him moving to the neared console, while he lost like 1% HP Gauge.

 

Not to mention, depending on the weapons you're using (i used Gram for this) you can "Stealth Lock" any enemy that can be stealth kill (i did this on the big gunners)

[Phoenix86]

Defenetly needs to be 1hit/kill, regardless of enemy's type and level... (well ofc bosses have to be immune)

[PaperAlien]

Should be one-hit kill. Always. It's incredibly stupid for any enemy to survive a stealth attack and when most the animations (Furax does a necksnap) suggest an instant kill. And with the "tap a panel to instantly cause alarm" system we have right now, any instant kills a level 0 warframe with level 0 weapons manages to perform on level 100 enemies are completely deserved.

[DirkDeadeye]

Should be one-hit kill. Always. It's incredibly stupid for any enemy to survive a stealth attack and when most the animations (Furax does a necksnap) suggest an instant kill. And with the "tap a panel to instantly cause alarm" system we have right now, any instant kills a level 0 warframe with level 0 weapons manages to perform on level 100 enemies are completely deserved.

yeah.. Because if you get discovered..you're dead. That's totally fair. Dunno why that argument was brought up.

[shr0ud]

it's just too difficult to bother with stealth in general. I mean once the alarm is set off you can't really do any more stealth kills ever. which kind of sucks when the mission asks you to perform 10 kills on unalerted enemies.

[RyojinOrion]

I've completely given up on attempting any stealth in this game. The stealth attack sucks, and once you are spotted, you're screwed for the entire mission. But that isn't really what I am here to say...

 

 

I actually like the idea of stealth melee attacks being one hit kills. Yes, even if that means that a level 0 frame with a level 0 weapon can instantly kill a level 100 enemy. I see it this way: If I were to sneak up on the world's strongest man and stab him in his carotid artery, he is certainly going to die, unless he happens to be extremely lucky and has a surgical team standing by to immediately begin to repair the damage (And even then there is a strong chance he will die anyway). It doesn't matter that if in a normal fight he could absolutely own me. If I get the drop on him and can execute such an attack, then he is going down.

[BloodRiot]

I understand that guaranteed stealth kill would be exploitable, simply consider what many MMOs do to prevent such things... add resists based on level differences or simply tie them to the damage potential of the melee weapon in question.

 

So effectively it CAN be a one hit kill even at high levels, but it will be less exploitable.

 

But i'd go even further and make the non 1hit kills desirable in some form. First off, there msut be a surprise/reacion timer on the would be victims, meaning they should not automatically make the entire ship aware something is amiss (grinner assuming cover positions negating further stealth kills). Even if they just spotted you, you should have a window of a couple of seconds or something liek that to rush in for the kill. If sucessfull it's as if it was a stealth kill in terms of awareness for the rest of the ship. A non 1hit kill should then stagger the enemies just long enough(eg: for you to finish the animation) to allow a followup move and perhaps a finisher similar to the ground attack. With this, a non 1hit kill would still bring enough advantages to be desirable. You would retain initiative and less health left on the enemy to finish him off.

 

Several other things need to be in place in order for stealth gameplay to be considered effective, mind you I think it is FUN even the way it is now, but it's no where near EFFECTIVE.

 

And the always standing after a stealth kill must go too for obvious reasons.

 

I actually don't mind perma alert if you are busted and alarm sounds, provided you are properly rewarded for avoiding it.

 

EDIT: Rewording and typos.

Edited June 6, 2013 by BloodRiot

[Linkedwulf]

yeah.. Because if you get discovered..you're dead. That's totally fair. Dunno why that argument was brought up.

You may die but even if you forfeit the mission you keep the XP. A few stealth kills at the beginning of a mission are pretty easy to pull of so that would make it easily exploitable.

 

Adding a stun or "knockdown" effect on enemies not killed on the other hand sounds good to me.

[RyojinOrion]

You may die but even if you forfeit the mission you keep the XP. A few stealth kills at the beginning of a mission are pretty easy to pull of so that would make it easily exploitable.

 

I don't see your point... It would be no more exploitable than it is now. I mean, you can still go into a level, get some kills, die/fail, and get the XP.

Edited June 6, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[Liminal]

Or use some arbitrary math like making it an instant kill if you weapon rank is at least half the victim's rank.

[Oleker]

It's an Stealth Execution... You got enough time to aim the right spot and will without defense. It should be always an instant kill... at least for me...

[DirkDeadeye]

You may die but even if you forfeit the mission you keep the XP. A few stealth kills at the beginning of a mission are pretty easy to pull of so that would make it easily exploitable.

 

Adding a stun or "knockdown" effect on enemies not killed on the other hand sounds good to me.

 

The time it takes to enter a mission, kill a few and leave would make that a pretty weak exploit.