Limbo Thoughts

[Ironlixivium]

     I know I've made 3-4 of these already but that was a really long time ago...figured I should, idk, make an "updated" one? Update is in quotes because limbo is still exactly the same if not worse.

 

WARNING: This post is kinda toxic, I'm sorry DE D': I tried to cut out as much as I could without diluting the point.

 

My thought's on limbo:

 

He's simultaneously useless and stupidly overpowered, (mostly useless) allow me to explain:

 

     He can either activate ultimate pleb mode and actually use cataclysm the way I think DE meant it to be used (a big bubble of combat), and die many deaths, or be completely "invulnerable", but also unable to attack everything else (woop-de-do).

 

Most frames have some defense while hacking, he has no such defense.

 

A lot of frames have some defense while carrying an object, he has no such defense.

 

most frames have something that tilts the the battle there way, aside from rift surge (Which should REALLY be a passive of the rift...) he has nothing to protect him, even in the dimension he's supposed to be a master of.

 

     there are situations when he can't be in the rift, and in those situations, he's a complete pleb. He has nothing going for him outside of the rift.

 

     This one REALLY bugs me: His own 4th ability is his Achilles heel. You can walk around in the rift all day long being untouched by enemies (and not touching them). then as soon as that lvl 100 heavy walks in to your rift, gg. Walk away from the keyboard, put down the controller, go eat a sandwich or something, because if you're within los of that cataclysm, you're a dead man walking.

 

     I've had multiple instances of actually dying from my own cataclysm BEFORE THE CASTING ANIMATION ENDED. through QT and primed flow. It's kinda ridiculous.

 

     Essentially, he's a piece of crap that was probably amazing in theory and didn't get enough attention to become what it could. (just my speculation)

 

     He's outclassed by other frames on every level, he has no place on a team, and every time someone wants to play limbo I'm both extremely disappointed in them and annoyed because being on a team with him is irritating. I find him both easy to use and stupidly difficult to play as.

 

Basically, Here's what I honestly believe limbo needs:

 

• Make rift surge a passive of the rift, for the whole team to enjoy without silly durations.

 

• Allow items to be brought carried in the rift, but fall into the material plane if dropped while in the rift (in the case of riftwalk/banish, they would have to go back to the material plane to pick it up again)

 

• Make cataclysm bring items and drops into the rift just like every other entity. Seriously, I'm so tempted to go farm some rare mod in a pug with limbo, then when we get it slap down my max duration cataclysm just to get some people raging about it the forums SOOOOOO tempted. I'm surprised people don't do it already.Balance wise though there's no reason for this not to happen; you're completely vulnerable to other stuff in the rift, no reason why you shouldn't be able to get items too.

 

• Rework his kit to (PLEASE DE PLZPLZPLZ) fit in something that involves levitation. he has at least 5 animations that involve it, he can clearly do it, so why not put it in a new 3rd ability? :-) 

 

• Last but certainly not least, in fact, this is THE MOST important one: I would really like for DE to put a genuinely good and hard thought into limbo to make him balanced, relevant, and enjoyable to play.

 

EDIT:

• Oh yeah, faster cast animations and seriously, knock off with the rift walk animation entirely please. I really think it should be instantaneous. In high levels, he can't stand around waiting for his rift walk to come, he's not an uber tank. 

 

Thank you for reading, and I really hope DE sees this.

 

Oh yeah, to limbo fans: I don't really care, no offense.

 

     I've heard all you have to say in my LAST 3 LIMBO POSTS. I find the "I can do x with him" particularly annoying though, as any frame can do anything in the right hands, it still doesn't mean they're balanced. Essentially I believe you guys use limbo because he has nothing to protect him and you can survive with just the game's cover and dodges etc. Just speculation though, again.

 

     I really just want to give my thoughts on limbo to DE again though, because I heard they were gonna rework him, in Dev stream #67. (I don't really know a better way to phrase that, but from how they talked about it in the stream it sounded like limbo and a few other frames were sorta "in limbo" (heheheh) between being considered for a rework and getting reworked. Maybe it's just the way they talked about it, but it seemed to me like they wanted to rework him, but it's not too late for them to severely postpone or cancel.)

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ironlixivium

[(PSN)devack13]

This is pretty much exactly how most people think of him and for good reason 

[tedbearr]

Making rift surge a passive is a good idea, and limbo is in need of a good third ability, something that fits his character as a gentleman or a magician. The thing is, I'm not sure what limbo is supposed to be, an assassin, solo frame, or support.

[NKDG]

Making rift surge a passive is a good idea, and limbo is in need of a good third ability, something that fits his character as a gentleman or a magician. The thing is, I'm not sure what limbo is supposed to be, an assassin, solo frame, or support.

Rift surge as a passive is kinda pointless imo... maybe make surge team wide and make his passive a high amount of damage reduction in the rift (at most 50%) to cover a bit of his weakness?

Also, to answer your question, I see him viably filling 2 roles:

First is the aforementioned invincible hax isolator, where you banish->kill->repeat. He's a duelist or a tactician. This is what his kit is supposed to do, but that's a boring, safe way to play him imo.

The second I recently found, but is a much wilder, riskier, more rewarding, and more fun way to play him (although it takes a few large groups or a lot of banishing. You can immediately switch back to banish kill repeat with the right build). High power strength, duration, unmodded efficiency, rift surge augment, and a hard hitting weapon. I call this "glass cannon gunsmith" as he can kill everything with a rift surge/cataclysm combo in a shot or two, but can't take more than maybe 2 hits. Destruction is eminent and fun.

Edited January 24, 2016 by NKDG

[Ironlixivium]

Rift surge as a passive is kinda pointless imo... maybe make surge team wide and make his passive a high amount of damage reduction in the rift (at most 50%) to cover a bit of his weakness?

Also, to answer your question, I see him viably filling 2 roles:

First is the aforementioned invincible hax isolator, where you banish->kill->repeat. He's a duelist or a tactician. This is what his kit is supposed to do, but that's a boring, safe way to play him imo.

The second I recently found, but is a much wilder, riskier, more rewarding, and more fun way to play him (although it takes a few large groups or a lot of banishing. You can immediately switch back to banish kill repeat with the right build). High power strength, duration, unmodded efficiency, rift surge augment, and a hard hitting weapon. I call this "glass cannon gunsmith" as he can kill everything with a rift surge/cataclysm combo in a shot or two, but can't take more than maybe 2 hits. Destruction is eminent and fun.

 

     I'd like to clarify that by passive, I meant passive of the rift. Not a passive ability. It couldn't be a passive ability anyway, passives need to be constantly active in order to be passive.

 

     Basically the idea is that all enemies in the rift take bonus damage, which can be modified by the owner of the rift's power strength. Basically, rift surge is permanently on and applies to all enemies within the rift, for anyone to take advantage of. This also gives us a slot for an ability that isn't so darn one-dimensional.

 

     Also, I usually call that second style you talked about by a different name....usually something like, "crap", "stupid", "useless", or "impossible". Alright I'm sorry but at the same time I'm serious. I have been one-shotted before the cataclysm animation is done when I try to do this. Although it's technically not impossible, we have plenty of other frames that can actually do a BETTER job at killing without getting their face smashed in or restricting their teammates pickups. Which reminds me something I forgot to add....

[NKDG]

I'd like to clarify that by passive, I meant passive of the rift. Not a passive ability. It couldn't be a passive ability anyway, passives need to be constantly active in order to be passive.

Basically the idea is that all enemies in the rift take bonus damage, which can be modified by the owner of the rift's power strength. Basically, rift surge is permanently on and applies to all enemies within the rift, for anyone to take advantage of. This also gives us a slot for an ability that isn't so darn one-dimensional.

Also, I usually call that second style you talked about by a different name....usually something like, "crap", "stupid", "useless", or "impossible". Alright I'm sorry but at the same time I'm serious. I have been one-shotted before the cataclysm animation is done when I try to do this. Although it's technically not impossible, we have plenty of other frames that can actually do a BETTER job at killing without getting their face smashed in or restricting their teammates pickups. Which reminds me something I forgot to add....

Ok, but what happens if there are two limbos that cataclysm the same place?

Also, in defense of the second build, I've found rift walking solves that problem of dying before cast is finished 95% of the time. And I can take exactly two hits in sortie missions before I'm down. I'm ok at dodging so it works well. It's quite fun and can 1 shot Sprite enemies if you strength it enough.

[Ironlixivium]

Ok, but what happens if there are two limbos that cataclysm the same place?

Also, in defense of the second build, I've found rift walking solves that problem of dying before cast is finished 95% of the time. And I can take exactly two hits in sortie missions before I'm down. I'm ok at dodging so it works well. It's quite fun and can 1 shot Sprite enemies if you strength it enough.

 

It goes with the limbo with higher strength

 

     This is when I've been one shotted, I wouldn't be complaining about it if I hadn't been using his best defensive skills, that's like saying rhino is squishy and ignoring his iron skin.

 

     Unfortunately, although you are right in that he can be technically usable, his damage multiplier is A: just for him, and B: not strong enough to warrant using limbo over other frames that can survive much longer. That's not even taking into account the other set-backs limbo has, like how he restricts pickups like ammo from being picked up while he benefits from his damage multi.