Incentives.

[RyojinOrion]

My frames are both max level. My weapons are either maxed out or not anything I care about maxing out. The resources that I need are really rare ones that are dropped most commonly by bosses and almost never dropped by containers, and the BPs I need are ONLY dropped by bosses. So I rush because all I want to do is kill the boss and move on. I have no reason to not play that way.

 

Adding in a slide cooldown won't change any of that. But do you know what will? Giving me a reason to want to slow down, kill enemies, and open containers. What kind of reason, you ask? Well, read on! Keep in mind that this isn't thought out too terribly much, so please don't be too harsh on the thoughts.

 

 

(Will add in more ideas, not just my own, to this post for the sake of organization as well as adding new ideas in a reply to keep the thread active.)

 

 

 

- Increase rewards based on kills made. Not just additional XP, that's useless to someone whose levels are maxed out already. Credits are too easy to earn as it is, so I don't think that's a great choice either. Perhaps for every X amount of kills, you gain an uncommon or rare mod.

 

- Give containers a very rare chance to drop blueprints, preferably ones that can not be purchased in the market or commonly dropped by bosses. This will make people want to continue looting if they don't particularly need that planet's resources.

 

- Give bonuses to players who help revive downed players... What kind of bonus? I dunno, credits? Or perhaps a temporary damage/defense boost?

 

- A post-mission detection count and reward for fewer detections. People will slow down to not get spotted, all so they can get that sweet sweet reward.

 

- Completionist reward: If you loot all the containers in any given level, you get a bonus to the rewards received.

 

- Explorer reward: If you visit every room in a mission, you get a bonus to the rewards received.

 

- New ways to attack enemies! Trickshots, melee combos, special melee attacks, something.

---- A side idea in addition to the one above: Perhaps a bonus for killing enemies in special ways?

 

- Optional side-missions. Not to be confused with the current system of things like 'Kill 30 enemies' 'Get 5 kills while sliding' etc. I mean, something like having special hackable consoles scattered through the mission, and you get a reward if you hack em all. (Side-mission name: Gotta Hack 'em All!)

---- In addition, other such things that also reveal more Warframe lore.

 

- Loot enemies. Enemies that have a higher chance to drop rare stuff, but hide in the side areas and do not attack you but instead flee if you are near.

 

- Create special hidden areas (And for god's sake, don't tell people how to find them!) that can only be found by exploring every inch of a given room. There already are a couple of semi-hidden areas, but I'm talking something more, something very hard to find, but also something rewarding to find. I would suggest bonus points for it taking some real ninja skills to find, but the devs would prolly not like that since it encourages speedy movement, which in turn encourages rushing.

 

- Easter eggs. They don't have to be particularly useful, just interesting. Perhaps hide some concept art somewhere in a level... A console that gives background information on the area or enemies in the area when found and hacked... Things like that. People love easter eggs in games, and will likely search to find em. But you'd have to keep updating them every now and then so that people will continue to look for em.

 

- More visually appealing and varying areas. I'm sorry, but once you have seen one or two rooms of any particular style, you've seen em all. It isn't very interesting to look at, so nobody is gonna want to take their time to look at a room that is almost just like the room before it, and the one before that, and the one before that, etc.

 

- Increase drops by amount of players near enemy when it died. The more teammates near the enemy, the more resources, credits, etc. it gives in its drops.

---- Additionally, possibly increasing the rarity of the rewards based on how many teammates are near.

 

- Targets hit by multiple players give some bonus of some sort. Affinity, xp, credits, or something else.

 

- They could actually do what they did in the Void with the parkour rooms, except make the interior buttons leave the doors open so any potential rushers don't go in and get the loot and leave the others out. That would give the speedy players something to do while giving the slower ones a chance to catch up. Not entirely sure it would work but it's an idea.

 

- Pickpocketing enemies. You'd have to sneak up on enemies slowly to make sure you aren't seen, and you can get a different kind of reward than just XP.

 

- Enemies have a chance to drop Void keys. Perhaps a very low chance with no special requirements; perhaps if you kill a certain amount or percentage of what was spawned in the level.

 

- Sector lockdown overrides. A special console somewhere off the main path that disables lockdowns in a certain amount of space for a certain amount of time. The harder to find, the better.

 

- Taking out the crew would give you a new mission. This could be direct or passive. Some missions might have to be done on the spot while others could be collected pretty much as the Void Keys. Further details here.

 

- Eavesdropping. If enemies are not alerted, they will chat with each other, providing various kinds of information. This information could be anything from lore to hints at the location of points of interest in the mission. It could be autotranslated in subtitles or by Lotus, or it could require taking a screenshot and manually translating.

 

- During Raid missions, if spotted, the artifact could be carried by a mobile team instead of stationary, making players have to explore to complete the mission. Alternatively, it could be moved to a new stationary location altogether.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Things like that would give people more reasons to not just try to rush straight to the end of the level, and would likely be far more effective than adding in stuns, roadblocks, and/or movement cooldowns.

Edited June 14, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[RyojinOrion]

More ideas... (Ideas integrated into first post. No need to read if you've read the first post fully.)

 

 

 

 

 

- A post-mission detection count and reward for fewer detections. People will slow down to not get spotted, all so they can get that sweet sweet reward.

 

- Completionist reward: If you loot all the containers in any given level, you get a bonus to the rewards received.

 

- Explorer reward: If you visit every room in a mission, you get a bonus to the rewards received.

 

- New ways to attack enemies! Trickshots, melee combos, special melee attacks, something.

---- A side idea in addition to the one above: Perhaps a bonus for killing enemies in special ways?

 

- Optional side-missions. Not to be confused with the current system of things like 'Kill 30 enemies' 'Get 5 kills while sliding' etc. I mean, something like having special hackable consoles scattered through the mission, and you get a reward if you hack em all. (Side-mission name: Gotta Hack 'em All!)

Edited June 14, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[VKhaun]

The resources that I need are really rare ones that are dropped most commonly by bosses and almost never dropped by containers.

 

 

No. Just no.

 

You are arguing with yourself and not the game. The rank mechanic laughs at your two frames and as someone who runs Thief's Wit at all times and actually farms lockers/containers, I can say definitively that I find rare mats just fine and only ever need to run Hyena for CM's, and that's only because I don't play in that system. I still find CM's from containers on the way to him, though I don't do it enough to say for sure which is more common.

[RyojinOrion]

No. Just no.

 

You are arguing with yourself and not the game. The rank mechanic laughs at your two frames and as someone who runs Thief's Wit at all times and actually farms lockers/containers, I can say definitively that I find rare mats just fine and only ever need to run Hyena for CM's, and that's only because I don't play in that system. I still find CM's from containers on the way to him, though I don't do it enough to say for sure which is more common.

 

I'm speaking from personal experience. I've tried looting all the containers, but I've never gotten certain resources from them, such as Control Modules and Neural Sensors. Or was it Neurodes? I don't remember which. I haven't used Thief's Wit, but that doesn't increase the chances so it's irrelevant to someone who clears every single room when looting all containers.

 

 

How can you say "No. Just no." to certain really rare resources being dropped most commonly by bosses and very rarely by containers and then go on to say that you don't even know for sure which is more common? You're contradicting yourself, buddy.

[Detectivetoast]

I am all for this.

Incentives are the way to go.

Beating your players with a stick for trying to go fast/farm faster  is not a good way to keep a playerbase.

Give incentives, reasons to slow down, don't just nerf everything in sight like it seems is always done.
The nerfs are always heavy handed and ruin whatever they're applied to.

[VKhaun]

I'm speaking from personal experience. I've tried looting all the containers, but I've never gotten certain resources from them, such as Control Modules and Neural Sensors. Or was it Neurodes? I don't remember which. I haven't used Thief's Wit, but that doesn't increase the chances so it's irrelevant to someone who clears every single room when looting all containers.

 

 

How can you say "No. Just no." to certain really rare resources being dropped most commonly by bosses and very rarely by containers and then go on to say that you don't even know for sure which is more common? You're contradicting yourself, buddy.

 

1) Yes, Thief's Wit will increase your loot because otherwise you'd miss some containers. If you really are searching high and low and finding every single one of them, then you could still do it faster or know when you find them to WP for friends (the indicator stays on your map after you pick them up, so even if you don't see it come from the locker you know it dropped.)

 

2) Read the last part again. All other rare mats and CM's are not the same thing. I did not contradict myself.

[RyojinOrion]

1) It doesn't increase the chances for resources to drop, it just shows you where the stuff is. If you already know where everything is, it is nothing more than a waste of space.

 

2) Last time I checked, CMs are rare mats.To claim otherwise is just silly.

 

 

Really, this arguing here has nothing to do with the point of this thread. Please keep on topic.

 

 

 

 

Another idea for incentives - Loot enemies. Enemies that have a higher chance to drop rare stuff, but hide in the side areas and do not attack you but instead flee if you are near.

Edited June 8, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[Tyroki]

The game really does lack incentives to take your time.

 

It's not like we can combo our kills or anything, and it isn't like much tends to drop from containers.

[dukelego]

or just t2s on eris and pluto

[RyojinOrion]

More thoughts for incentives to not rush!

 

 

- Create special hidden areas (And for god's sake, don't tell people how to find them!) that can only be found by exploring every inch of a given room. There already are a couple of semi-hidden areas, but I'm talking something more, something very hard to find, but also something rewarding to find. I would suggest bonus points for it taking some real ninja skills to find, but the devs would prolly not like that since it encourages speedy movement, which in turn encourages rushing.

 

- Easter eggs. They don't have to be particularly useful, just interesting. Perhaps hide some concept art somewhere in a level... A console that gives background information on the area or enemies in the area when found and hacked... Things like that. People love easter eggs in games, and will likely search to find em. But you'd have to keep updating them every now and then so that people will continue to look for em.

 

- More visually appealing and varying areas. I'm sorry, but once you have seen one or two rooms of any particular style, you've seen em all. It isn't very interesting to look at, so nobody is gonna want to take their time to look at a room that is almost just like the room before it, and the one before that, and the one before that, etc.

[grndragon]

don't make special rewards based on # of kills; even now, people are complaining if you "killsteal" and such a change would make people complain even more. although if it would be done of #kills for the team overall, then it would be a better system for sure

[RyojinOrion]

don't make special rewards based on # of kills; even now, people are complaining if you "killsteal" and such a change would make people complain even more. although if it would be done of #kills for the team overall, then it would be a better system for sure

 

Problem with that is how much easier it can be exploited. Get a group of people together and let one person do all the work, ya know?

 

I haven't really ever heard anyone seriously complaining about killstealing. Enemies have always been too plentiful for that, IMO.

Edited June 8, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[grndragon]

that is my impression. killstealing here and killstealing there. though my main point is that i dont think players should be given money or xp rewards based on only their own work. i believe that rewards should be based on how the team does, not only the player. it is probably ways to balance it out to make it less exploiteable too

[RyojinOrion]

that is my impression. killstealing here and killstealing there. though my main point is that i dont think players should be given money or xp rewards based on only their own work. i believe that rewards should be based on how the team does, not only the player. it is probably ways to balance it out to make it less exploiteable too

 

I'm just gonna have to disagree. I think players should be rewarded for the work that they personally do, not the work that other people do. I mean, if it were based solely on team kills, what is to stop me from joining a game, running straight to the extraction while ignoring enemies and let my teammates rack up the kills and reaping the rewards for their work while I did practically nothing? How would you cover up such a big exploit?

 

I would much rather have to worry about killstealing than have to worry about doing all the work or having players rewarded for doing essentially nothing.

[grndragon]

i don't personally know. i don't usually mind such in squad competition, but i'm talking for others as well. i can be flexible, though i know that many people don't want to be flexible. as i said, its probably easy enough to balance such out, yet i'm not one to know how to balance something.

 

in a game so coop centric as this, i still don't think its a good idea to have enormous rewards for individual play, but of course straight up team performance-based rewards is easy to exploit if implemented wrong. i'm just saying my opinion, though there are much better people than me who can properly think of balance.

[mmSNAKE]

Kill stealing doesn't seem to be a huge issue for me. If I need to level things there are grineer mobile defense missions. Even if I don't come out on top due to my guns being bad or my frame not suited for aoe spam I can still get 20k exp across the board without much issue.

 

When all gear taken into consideration outside of massive AOE spam (overload, miasma), there is no issue with kill stealing. Guns are so powerful on everything but extreme high level enemies and this mostly concerns ancients, so that in a normal case whoever shoots first kills. That isn't kill stealing.

 

I do agree that the game needs to expand on incentive for players to do various other things. I'm pretty sure we will see lots of changes in time to come.

[grndragon]

agreed. personally, my opinion is that any special reward systems should be more based on finding things/doing special objectives and not much on kills. maybe staying near teammates would increase rare resource chance and mod drop chance for example. the more teammates you stay near, the bigger the reward etc. if multiple people damage one enemy, they get a bit more affinity for "working together" in killing it

[carbondragon]

More thoughts for incentives to not rush!

 

 

- Create special hidden areas (And for god's sake, don't tell people how to find them!) that can only be found by exploring every inch of a given room. There already are a couple of semi-hidden areas, but I'm talking something more, something very hard to find, but also something rewarding to find. I would suggest bonus points for it taking some real ninja skills to find, but the devs would prolly not like that since it encourages speedy movement, which in turn encourages rushing.

 

 

They could actually do what they did in the Void with the parkour rooms, except make the interior buttons leave the doors open so any potential rushers don't go in and get the loot and leave the others out. That would give the speedy players something to do while giving the slower ones a chance to catch up. Not entirely sure it would work but it's an idea.

[RyojinOrion]

agreed. personally, my opinion is that any special reward systems should be more based on finding things/doing special objectives and not much on kills.

 

 

Yeah, I more or less agree. I just included that in there as another idea on a way to give rushers a reason to not rush to the end without killing things, ya know? Wasn't really the best idea of the bunch, but it was still an idea.

 

 

 

maybe staying near teammates would increase rare resource chance and mod drop chance for example.

 

That could be a good idea... Wouldn't work so well with people who rush the boss levels so they can farm blueprints faster, though... I'm not entirely sure how one could go about fixing that one, though, without making the boss runs more or less useless.

 

 

 

the more teammates you stay near, the bigger the reward etc.

 

Excellent idea.

 

 

 

if multiple people damage one enemy, they get a bit more affinity for "working together" in killing it

 

This is a pretty good idea, but it doesn't work so well for people who have their gear maxed out already. Affinity would be pointless for them. Also, enemies go down so quickly that it isn't very common to have more than one person hit the same enemy. That isn't to say that is a reason to not do it, but it just doesn't seem as effective as other methods, ya know?

 

 

They could actually do what they did in the Void with the parkour rooms, except make the interior buttons leave the doors open so any potential rushers don't go in and get the loot and leave the others out. That would give the speedy players something to do while giving the slower ones a chance to catch up. Not entirely sure it would work but it's an idea.

 

That seems like more of a bandaid idea that doesn't really solve the issue of rushing, IMO. Still, it's worth discussing.

 

 

I added some of the ideas into the original post. Thanks for contributing to the thread!

Edited June 8, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[grndragon]

the last idea was mainly for bosses to be honest. or enemies in T3 void.

when it comes to people who rush to the boss i still don't really believe that a boss should be counted into this. boss drops themselves need to be altered some. my idea was mainly for normal enemies, though i should have mentioned that.

[RyojinOrion]

when it comes to people who rush to the boss i still don't really believe that a boss should be counted into this.

 

Well, I see rushing most often on boss levels, so it is only natural for me to consider that.

[grndragon]

i understand that.

[belthagor]

-we should have a counter for how many total kills you have, and some ranking, so theres no way a rusher would be ranked even in the top 100

-post-mission bonus stage would be fun

-new way to attack enemies: Possesion, works from very far and makes enemies attack eachother for your amusement, now imagine possessing a sheild osprey to give sheilds to all your posessed mobs. XD

-pickpocket enemies would rock, i agree with you, it could be a skill even

-we already have hidden rooms, they are in void missions, specifically raid, because you are raiding the place

-agree with you on easter eggs
 

too lazy to read the rest

[RyojinOrion]

-we should have a counter for how many total kills you have, and some ranking, so theres no way a rusher would be ranked even in the top 100

 

Pretty sure there already is a total kills counter, not sure about the ranking.

 

 

-post-mission bonus stage would be fun

 

Wouldn't combat rushing. It would be even more areas to have to go through, which could potentially encourage even more rushing.

 

 

-new way to attack enemies: Possesion, works from very far and makes enemies attack eachother for your amusement, now imagine possessing a sheild osprey to give sheilds to all your posessed mobs. XD

 

Again, doesn't give any real incentives to not rush. Just makes rushing easier, actually. At any rate, isn't there a frame that can turn enemies against each other, or am I mistaken?

 

 

-pickpocket enemies would rock, i agree with you, it could be a skill even

 

Wait, who said something about pickpocketing? I think I may have missed something. Either way, good idea, I'll add it to the original post.

[belthagor]

you know what would help? a realistic sentinel, like possibly a cat that fires laser beams, we could call it "pew pew laser cat" but aside from its offensive capabilities you can play with it in a special screen, like get closeness, etc, and a "happier" kitten does more damage

 

I had to recommend this because I thought some of the characters from my little pony would be too much for the job.