Is there Counter-Play to Shock Eximus?

[(PSN)horridhal]

What I find amazing is all the people saying we need to "adapt" to the Shock Eximus are, generally, the same players who complain about people using "overpowered" gear and refuse to "adapt" their play style and expect the meta to change to suit them.

Edited March 8, 2016 by (PS4)horridhal

[Sunfaiz]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

What I find amazing is all the people saying we need to "adapt" to the Shock Eximus are, generally, the same players who complain about people using "overpowered" gear and refuse to "adapt" their play style and expect the meta to change to suit them.

These are the same people who rushed to MR 21 and now have nothing to do. They maxed out gear and got all the rewards and are bored. They want something to shake up the game. They don't care if it's actually good or bad, so long as it changes it.

[Ozamchist]

 

20 minutes ago, Sunfaiz said:

These are the same people who rushed to MR 21 and now have nothing to do. They maxed out gear and got all the rewards and are bored. They want something to shake up the game. They don't care if it's actually good or bad, so long as it changes it.

I'm MR 17, and I have been playing this game for about a year.

Rushing through weapons is a terrible idea as is rushing through frames.

If I adhered to a meta then I would be using corrosive projection and making an assumptions that there is some sort of tiers to frames and weapons.

Edited March 8, 2016 by TermiteFrame

[Ozamchist]

18 hours ago, Specific.Zod said:

People who trying to defenses currently shock eximus should know this:

It's totally ruined the melee gameplay, totally. Not gun play, as if gun play ever has any struggle in the first place outside nulifier.

In condition:

-No shadowstep (not everyone go naramon, we go unairu for 15% armour reduction and 30% stun).

- No Trinity (she is broken), or Limbo (1,2,3 players play him?)

There is no way a melee frame can survival if they accidentally fail into shock eximus aura. Even Valkyr warcry or hysteria is completely shut off no matter what.

Shock Eximus drain :all energy, all shield and buzz screen in once instantly. even if you kill it fast enough, 98% you are dead because they do not go alone.

Nulifier: block skill using. but if you kill it fast enough, you can recast skill -> CC and self-buff, you are good.

leech eximus: leech energy overtime (and now they even leech energy from toggled ability) kill them fast enough, you are good.

Ancient Disruptor: They need to hit you with right hand, even magnetic proc are pretty much guarantee, you can avoid it and kill it, you are good.

There is no skill involved in counter play Shock eximus as melee frames, because basically there is none. Shock eximus is there to remove melee gameplay (w/o relying on shadowstep) entirely.

I can actually use melee without using naramon and corrosive projection (which I have yet to use) in a solo T4 survival you are still going to tell me it's cheese though.

[Inmemoratus]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

What I find amazing is all the people saying we need to "adapt" to the Shock Eximus are, generally, the same players who complain about people using "overpowered" gear and refuse to "adapt" their play style and expect the meta to change to suit them.

How do you know they're the same people? This seems like a ridiculously baseless assertion unless you have meticulously collected statements from every poster as evidence.

[(PSN)horridhal]

16 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

How do you know they're the same people? This seems like a ridiculously baseless assertion unless you have meticulously collected statements from every poster as evidence.

1. I didn't say all.  The key word there is "generally."

2.  It is based on the other threads discussing the same mechanics, and other disliked mechanics.  The same names pop up in threads defending the same decisions.  It isn't baseless.

[sekushiiandee]

59 minutes ago, Sunfaiz said:

These are the same people who rushed to MR 21 and now have nothing to do. They maxed out gear and got all the rewards and are bored. They want something to shake up the game. They don't care if it's actually good or bad, so long as it changes it.

^ just for the sake of making sure we arent generalizing

im an MR 21...but ive been around since U 6-8.....

I like a challenge in warframe....but really wish DE understood what balanced meant to the game

it is true that I have nothing else to do because ive done it all....but even I see that this is ridiculous because its not cool for the newer players and players who lack resources (i.e. warframes, mods, and weapons) to fight back against a CHEAP mechanic and design.

[Slaviar]

10 hours ago, TermiteFrame said:

Also no you don't actually need corrosive projection, but I understand that you (and probably everyone here is going) to point blank refuse to accept or even try to understand that viewpoint.

You don't need cp, that's true. But at certain point (around 60-80 mins into high lvl surv) heavies take eternity to kill. It also applies to sorties since mobs are ~100

[Inmemoratus]

1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

1. I didn't say all.  The key word there is "generally."

2.  It is based on the other threads discussing the same mechanics, and other disliked mechanics.  The same names pop up in threads defending the same decisions.  It isn't baseless.

"generally" based on what evidence? Do you have statistics on what people have posted? You can't find a general trend without some statistics. It's baseless until you show some evidence instead of some vague impression you have.

[(PSN)horridhal]

4 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

"generally" based on what evidence? Do you have statistics on what people have posted? You can't find a general trend without some statistics. It's baseless until you show some evidence instead of some vague impression you have.

Based off my own anecdotal evidence which is just as relevant as yours saying you've never seen any of these people in the type of threads I'm describing.

Pretty obvious that my initial post you commented on was an opinion laced one which you are trying to construe as something I am passing off as factual.  It was, and I'm not.  As for my "vague impression" feel free to go into any of the other threads discussing the same subject material and you'll see the same names you see in this one.

Edited March 8, 2016 by (PS4)horridhal
Bolded for emphasis.

[Inmemoratus]

1 minute ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Based off my own anecdotal evidence which is just as relevant as yours saying you've never seen any of these people in the type of threads I'm describing.

Pretty obvious that my initial post you commented on was an opinion laced one which you are trying to construe as something I am passing off as factual.  It was, and I'm not.  As for my "vague impression" feel free to go into any of the other threads discussing the same subject material and you'll see the same names you see in this one.

It's not even evidence. It's just a vague impression you have due to your bias.

And you're the one who made the claim so you must provide evidence.

Actually I don't really care if it's true or not. I just wanted to point out how stupid of a post it was. It's not even relevant if the same people post about other topics or not.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[(PSN)horridhal]

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

It's not even evidence. It's just a vague impression you have due to your bias.

And you're the one who made the claim so you must provide evidence.

lol.  I've told you how to verify my claim.  I don't see the point of linking 10 different threads on the same subject to this one.  I'm done with you, bucko.  You just aren't worth it.

[J1ffyLub3]

2 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

What I find amazing is all the people saying we need to "adapt" to the Shock Eximus are, generally, the same players who complain about people using "overpowered" gear and refuse to "adapt" their play style and expect the meta to change to suit them.

I don't see a reason to complain about OP gear in a co-op setting. It's your choice what gear you use, this game is primarily PvE so you aren't pigeonholed into using certain things to win.

Generally speaking, the people who cry the most about shock eximus appear to simply want to use whatever strat they want and get away with it, and something that involves slowing down or possibly altering that playstyle is immediately frowned upon. There is a reason frames like Frost are great in defense missions and not so great in others, there is a reason sniper rifles don't function great in tight maps compared to more open/elongated ones, "situational-ness" (not sure what else to call it atm) is a huge part of the game. I'm sorry if you want to play your melee centric frame wherever you go, but personally I don't find that healthy for game design as you introduce countless restrictions. No one particular thing should have equal viableness across all the game's content. This street goes both ways. You can generalize about people defending shock eximus just as much as you can generalize people advocating against it, and we can find plenty of bad things to say about each other. This alone doesn't prove anything and is simply attacking someone's character and not what they have to say.

I do agree shock eximus shouldn't hit you through walls and could use better visual cues to indicate where they are at...but other than that I don't think its bad to have them in the game. Yeah, they suck when you are forced to use melee in a eximus stronghold sortie...but sorties are supposed to be very challenging and require you to think before just jumping in with whatever gear you happened to have equipped. I don't see any complaints about energy sapping in Nightmare mode, where in those missions you barely get any energy for the whole mission.

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by J1ffyLub3

[(PSN)horridhal]

8 minutes ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

I don't see a reason to complain about OP gear in a co-op setting. It's your choice what gear you use, this game is primarily PvE so you aren't pigeonholed into using certain things to win.

 

Your words are at odds with your argument.  If you support this enemy then you support being "pigeon-holed" into specific weapons.  There is no other way to look at it since it effectively negates any non-thrown melee weapon, thus forcing you not to use melee, or to have to sacrifice your energy, shields, and hud in order to do so.

[J1ffyLub3]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Your words are at odds with your argument.  If you support this enemy then you support being "pigeon-holed" into specific weapons.  There is no other way to look at it since it effectively negates any non-thrown melee weapon, thus forcing you not to use melee, or to have to sacrifice your energy, shields, and hud in order to do so.

Yes, but its a very broad pigeonhole, where as I was talking about meta-specific pigeonholes such as needing to use Mirage + x weapon. Forcing you to use guns in a shooter shouldn't be frowned upon, especially when you can avoid content where using melee only effectively kills you. If you are dead set on melee only you can bring friends with guns with you on missions and make a point to avoid shock eximus'. The only time you can't do this is on melee sorties...but again those are an example of avoidable content. You can simply skip that day's sortie. The game isn't a melee only game. There is going to be content where going melee only simply gets you killed, because that is not the aim of the game.

Edited March 8, 2016 by J1ffyLub3

[Inmemoratus]

1 minute ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Your words are at odds with your argument.  If you support this enemy then you support being "pigeon-holed" into specific weapons.  There is no other way to look at it since it effectively negates any non-thrown melee weapon, thus forcing you not to use melee, or to have to sacrifice your energy, shields, and hud in order to do so.

That's not true because not every enemy has this aura. Only occasional corpus units. You get to bring a warframe, 2 guns, a melee weapon, and a companion. So unless you're trying to 100% melee you have the tools to deal with a dude with a 5 meter aura.

This game isn't designed for 100% melee to necessarily be viable in every mission.

[(PSN)horridhal]

Just now, J1ffyLub3 said:

Yes, but its a very broad pigeonhole, where as I was talking about meta-specific pigeonholes such as needing to use Mirage + x weapon. Forcing you to use guns in a shooter shouldn't be frowned upon, especially when you can avoid content where using melee only effectively kills you. If you are dead set on melee only you can bring friends with guns with you on missions and make a point to avoid shock eximus'

No, it isn't a "broad pigeon-hole."  It is either you kill it with a gun, or you sacrifice your hud, energy, and shields in order to kill it.  That isn't broad, it's a simple A or B option.

Feel free to show me ever saying gunplay should be frowned upon.  Prior to this change, though, Melee and guns were viable alternatives to each other.  Now, melee isn't unless you are willing to decimate yourself in the process.  That's a bad mechanic.

3 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

Only occasional corpus units.

As I told you before, pretty much done with you but this is wholly incorrect.  They appear in the Void, also, which is what most end-game players are busy playing.

4 minutes ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

If you are dead set on melee only you can bring friends with guns with you on missions and make a point to avoid shock eximus'

Ignoring that, prior to this change, both options were viable without needing to "bring friends."

[YasaiTsume]

On 3/6/2016 at 8:11 AM, SYL3NZR said:

welcome to artifical difficulty, the true endgame

Yea Warframe's scaling mechanic usually revolves around making the game increasingly difficult against players not by improving enemy behaviour or weapons, but to slowly take away the player's arsenal, like damage and abilities.

Eventually yur gonna get forced out of the mission rather than being killed by superior enemies. 

[Inmemoratus]

1 minute ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Feel free to show me ever saying gunplay should be frowned upon.  Prior to this change, though, Melee and guns were viable alternatives to each other.  Now, melee isn't unless you are willing to decimate yourself in the process.  That's a bad mechanic.

Occasional units in 2 factions and all it does is punish you for equipping nothing in your gun slots.

It's not about them being "viable alternatives". They are different tools for different situations. These situations can come up in the same mission so you bring both. You don't go into a mission with equipment slots empty.

[J1ffyLub3]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Ignoring that, prior to this change, both options were viable without needing to "bring friends."

Having both as viable options for all content hurts the game more than it helps in the long run. The game isn't designed to use one or the other, the game is designed to use both. I'm sorry if you wanted a medieval fantasy game with swords and magic, but Warframe isn't that. It's primarily a shooter. Yeah, melee was viable in the past, but more and more stuff is being added to the game. It's starts to get impossible to balance everything so that the few people who want to dice everything can do so

[Flirk2]

30 minutes ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

1)There is a reason frames like Frost are great in defense missions and not so great in others,

2) there is a reason sniper rifles don't function great in tight maps compared to more open/elongated ones,

3) I'm sorry if you want to play your melee centric frame wherever you go, but personally I don't find that healthy for game design as you introduce countless restrictions.

I'm questioning your understanding of the whole situation.

1) Frost is awesome. He can spy as well as any frame apart from Loki, Ivara and maybe Ash. He can capture better then most, as his command of "Freeze" will be listened. He can run any other mission as well as any other frame. What he can't do is dish as much DPS as what people call "nuke" frames in low level content. But from the "get mission done" point of view that's totally irrelevant.

2)Sniper rifles pretty much don't function. Because there are so few places that have space for them and the hip fire accuracy is now so low, you can't hit a broad side of a bombard from 10 meters without scoping, forget head shots.

3)I'm really sorry. But you seem to totally forget there is such a thing as melee-only condition in sorties that can be applied against any faction in any mission. Which points pretty hard that melee-only should be viable in any situation.

So forgive me if I will not value very much your opinion on whether shock eximi are fine or not.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Flirk2
typos

[Inmemoratus]

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

I'm questioning your understanding of the whole situation.

1) Frost is awesome. He can spy as well as any frame apart from Loki, Ivara and maybe Ash. He can capture better then most, as his command of "Freeze" will be listened. He can run any other mission as well as any other frame. What he can't do is dish as much DPS as what people call "nuke" frames in low level content. But from the "get mission done" point of view that's totally irrelevant.

2)Sniper rifles pretty much don't function. Because there are so few places that have space for them and the hip fire accuracy is now so low, you can't hit a broad side of a bombard from 10 meters without scoping, forget head shots.

3)I'm really sorry. But you seem to totally forget there is such a thing as melee-only condition in sorties that can be applied against any faction in any mission. Which points pretty hard that melee-only should be viable in any situation.

So forgive me if I will not value very much your opinion on weather shock eximi are fine or not.

If you're ok with playing a melee centric frame to make pure melee viable, play Inaros. Then it literally does not matter if you get hit by a shock aura.

But if you want to be able to bring ANY frame to that melee only corpus sortie? Sorry, your choice of frame and weapon matter.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[sekushiiandee]

4 minutes ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

Having both as viable options for all content hurts the game more than it helps in the long run. The game isn't designed to use one or the other, the game is designed to use both. I'm sorry if you wanted a medieval fantasy game with swords and magic, but Warframe isn't that. It's primarily a shooter. Yeah, melee was viable in the past, but more and more stuff is being added to the game. It's starts to get impossible to balance everything so that the few people who want to dice everything can do so

^ maybe they shouldve have made valkyr so melee focused for her abilities.....or saryn.....

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 minute ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

Having both as viable options for all content hurts the game more than it helps in the long run. 

No, it doesn't.  This comment negates all further discourse I was going to have with you.

Diversity NEVER hurts a game.  You can balance melee and gunplay to have both be viable, which they've(DE) done remarkably well up to this point.  

[J1ffyLub3]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

I'm questioning your understanding of the whole situation.

1) Frost is awesome. He can spy as well as any frame apart from Loki, Ivara and maybe Ash. He can capture better then most, as his command of "Freeze" will be listened. He can run any other mission as well as any other frame. What he can't do is dish as much DPS as what people call "nuke" frames in low level content. But from the "get mission done" point of view that's totally irrelevant.

2)Sniper rifles pretty much don't function. Because there are so few places that have space for them and the hip fire accuracy is now so low, you can't hit a broad side of a bombard from 10 meters without scoping, forget head shots.

3)I'm really sorry. But you seem to totally forget there is such a thing as melee-only condition in sorties that can be applied against any faction in any mission. Which points pretty hard that melee-only should be viable in any situation.

So forgive me if I will not value very much your opinion on weather shock eximi are fine or not.

1) I never said Frost couldn't do other mission types, I simply said he is stronger than most for defensive ones and doesn't shine as much as frames in everything else

2) It was an example. Do you want other ones? I can think of plenty

3) You can avoid sorties, and all other content where melee-only kills you. The game isn't designed around melee-only, its designed around using both gunplay and swordplay