Ash rework (Self-Thoughts and opinions)

[LAWD]

So the actual ninja of space! Has nice utility, simple to use and one of the deadliest ultimates in game. Well that was back in U7. 12.5 major updates later...U18.5 and the same cannot be said. With so much development, he is left out and is just that ninja wannabe. I mean why not make him abilities smoked themed, would be much edgier and defined than the ninja of the game. Ash is too basic.

Much like...........Saitama, one punch = press4towin. He is too strong. So much relations ey, but anyway.

My opinions on his skills is that there isn't much synchronization among the skills, to perform successful combos as a ninja does, he doesn't feel so ninja. Shuriken is simple but doesn't scale well. Recently, 1st skills have become quite good with that slide punch, and its combo-multiplier, it would blend in so well to the Shuriken casting. Smokescreen is terrible. Only good for invisibility, i actually thought adding range to it would blind a whole room of grineer soldiers.I imagine it to be the best utility Ash should have, for CC play and stealth play. However, this may make it difficult to come up with a modification to this ability, with the people going on like "Ash is not a camper" So quick for CC and stealth. The escape/panic button, i get it! A cloud of smoke would be neat! And probably accompanied by a second activation with the Shuriken skill. Remember what i said about much synchronization among the skills. Well this would go against that, Lets say you aim at the smoke areas you covered with smoke, firing your shurikens with actually set them off to blow briefly after contact with the smoke and shuriken. Id call the combo Smokebombs. Teleport, looking at this skill, its quite fun to use to go to you allies and the giant ol' bombers. I like it, but the finisher seems pointless when you have Bladestorm, the one which needs dedication and thinking! Teleport finishers are just bladestorm x10. like a direct upgrade, dunno if it was intentional though. Bladestorm makes me feel weird, it like not been in control anymore, and suddenly everyone dies. Between that is a short cutscene of glitchy, camera shaking violence.  I do hope that they've come close to finalizing this skill rework, im really looking forward to it. However i also hope they rework his entire kit, from passives to actives.  Let the ninja kill!

[AKKILLA]

Got inspired huh?

I do agree with most of Your key points.

SHURIKEN could scale off of Melee, wouldnt make sense to scale it off of secondary. His shurikens arent secondary anyway plus Ash is a melee frame. Lets pretend shuriken was an energy glaive so scaling off of melee makes sense and scales off Bladestorm as well. Simple slight QoL nothing Major.

SMOKE SCREEN we all agree here, Smoke Cloud AoE for CC, keep the same duration and mechanics just add the cloud and CC for Finishers. The shuriken synergy you mentioned isnt a bad idea. just a bit weird. Not bad tho.

TELEPORT is fine, just adding a small detail like Free-aim Dash Teleport for evasive maneuvers and add a cmall cloud on enemies you teleport to. This indicates the enemy you aimed and teleported to is stunned and will not escape Your Finisher Kill. 1 slight idea I had is allow Ash to teleport to enemies you hit with Shuriken (1) that are still suffering from Bleed/DoT procs from shuriken. as long as the enemies still debuffed you may free-teleport to em with out any Line of Sight. As long as your shuriken casted still bleeds them

BLADESTORM I consider it get the Stance Ulti/Channeled Drain ability treatment. Why? This keeps Bladestorm conceptually the same except an evolved version of the ability. Plus fully Stnchronizes all his abilities while in Bladestorm, allowing you to do the Killing in Bladestorm, letting the player utilize Ashs Hidden Blades along with Your 2 Shadow Clones, Shuriken can be used as a ranged weapon in Bladestorm, Smoke Screen for CC, and Teleports to pick up the speed we lose from our current Bladestorm.

In speed I mean the automatic kills, this idea of Bladestorm makes the Player have to work for the Kills, all kills are considered Finisher kills with Slash Bleed procs so Arcane Trickery will Proc as usual just now we must work for it insread of pressing 4 and watching it happen safely while we wait for Trickery to cover us. I promote all the necessary mechanics in current Bladestorm to function in the reworked for, Invincibility while attacking cuz (Finisher Kills) Invisibility while not attacking. Bladestorm in my opnion should make you behave like a Grineer Manic, Unseen until You attack and dashing in for quick fierce strikes.

Keep Pushing Your threads Bro, add some detail and organize Your thread abit. You have a solid idea of what Ash should be, dont lose sight of it.

[LAWD]

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

Got inspired huh?

I do agree with most of Your key points.

SHURIKEN could scale off of Melee, wouldnt make sense to scale it off of secondary. His shurikens arent secondary anyway plus Ash is a melee frame. Lets pretend shuriken was an energy glaive so scaling off of melee makes sense and scales off Bladestorm as well. Simple slight QoL nothing Major.

SMOKE SCREEN we all agree here, Smoke Cloud AoE for CC, keep the same duration and mechanics just add the cloud and CC for Finishers. The shuriken synergy you mentioned isnt a bad idea. just a bit weird. Not bad tho.

Haha i do love how you put it down, sometimes visuals really dont mean much. Lets pretend its all WIP.

And thank you, weird ones always stand out, this would make the ninja get more talks and all and be soon the poser boy, lol Lets say he's aiming for a promotion. An dthis is all just the first chapter The first impression

We gotta bring back fun times, and by that i mean simple, useful, retro-active, ideas.

 

Edited March 6, 2016 by LAWD

[LAWD]

What im trying to say is, Ash and few other frames got real potential to Ivara's extent. Imagine, but first Ash imo lol.

I mean the hypre for ash prime was legit. ^.^

Ash is outdated, he needs a good rework!

Edited March 6, 2016 by LAWD

[AKKILLA]

48 minutes ago, LAWD said:

What im trying to say is, Ash and few other frames got real potential to Ivara's extent. Imagine, but first Ash imo lol.

I mean the hypre for ash prime was legit. ^.^

Ash is outdated, he needs a good rework!

Like how Excalibur got reworked, although everyone Hates Exalted Blade now cuz its Waves are OP. If You think about it Ashs Shurikens in Bladestorm Stance will be OP too, similar to EB waves except 3 Exalted Shurikens (Ash+2Clones) that have punch through and scale off melee.

Teleport at will, use smoke screen for CC kill who you want, I see only people saying it is too OP as EB and Hysteria because it brings both into one if You think about it.

Bladestorm as a Stance ultimate will make it very interactive and better in a Whole sense because You have the control of the action along with a full kit to use in Your Ultimate.

Shuriken will be like EB waves except they cost energy, as well as smoke screen and teleports, although You will get free teleports off of enemies who are in Smoke Screens or are bleeding from a shuriken you previously hit them with you may free-teleport at no energy cost and need no Line of sight to the enemy hit by shuriken. smoke screen clouds can also be teleported to with no line of sight as long as there are enemies inside it they will be highlighted in Red meaning they are Marked for Death by Ash/Clones. You are allowed to cast teleport and it will cost nothing and allow quick access to these enemies within the cloud to Kill in Bladestorm mode.

Im telling You I can imagine this Bladestorm like if I created it. Just Imagine Yourself being able to Cast Bladestorm and You turn Invisible like Grineer Manics when You dont attack, tho you still take damage but you are unseen. When You attack Ash/Clones appear out of a Small Smoke Cloud and You are rendered Invincible, meaning You dont take damage similar to the current Bladestorm. I think this is why some people dont want this and others do.

The people who dont agree with this Bladestorm concept fear it will be out right too OP, but lets be honest here. Balancing does exist. It will release and we will judge how OP it really is or not but I see this to be the BEST Bladestorm concept in total to synchronize with Ashs entire set of abilities and allow players control of the action instead of watching Bladestorm happen or send out clones to do it only. That will lose Bladestorms indentity and Ash as a whole.

A Stance Ultimate is what Ash needs and the rest of his Kit will align along with

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

 

[LAWD]

I like your idea, not too bad, but osmehow still unbalanced, no downsides?  cmon where's the fun in breaking the rules.

Although having full control when you activate his ultimate versus actually having thta control implemented to the mechanics behind each ability as its own.

You wanna feel like that guy in Tekken, Raven or soemthing, well there ya go! As for his ultimate i'd suggest he just turns bijuu mode and tail beast bomb everything, wouldnt make a difference from the current. Ash is a ninja, he should be awesome!

[LAWD]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

 

i've done quite seen it already, i think i've seen them all, i approve but they need more reasoning imo

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Just now, LAWD said:

i've done quite seen it already, i think i've seen them all, i approve but they need more reasoning imo

I think my thread has a good deal of reasoning. It's a lot to read, but it is definitely in there.

[(PSN)Mr_MikeyDmason]

Yeah, his teleport needs to be more free and his invisibility should last a smidge longer. I don't like in pvp that attacking while invis pulls you out, but that's not the case with loki.

[AKKILLA]

7 hours ago, LAWD said:

i've done quite seen it already, i think i've seen them all, i approve but they need more reasoning imo

Heres Reasoning!

I looked for a New Ninja game to get into and saw a Trailer of Ash

 

His trailer is Fantastic,when You actually get Your hands on him You say, hold up! He feels off, and his Bladestorm fools You in the Trailer it looks Fabulous, in game is another thing. I can say I like seeing allies Bladestorm, I love the concept of Bladestorm but DE just slacked off on Ash a bit just a few tweaks along with the Bladestorm Master rework i will post soon. I need Support tho. Its all about the Bladestorm Stance Ultimate because that way it makes players use abilities more like shuriken and smoke screen to mark enemies and teleport in and kill in rapid succession. this will be a Stance like Ultimate because its toggled drain mechanic and will have combos and can utilize abilities like shuriken smoke screen and teleport and channel while in Bladestorm.

This promotes his whole kit, Bladestorm is just a Super Ninjutsu mode You go into and can use your same kit but stronger because

SUPER NINJA ULTI TOO OP PLS NARF! xD

You get the picture, vote for Bladestorm stance Ultimate :)

Edited March 7, 2016 by AKKILLA

[LAWD]

On 3/6/2016 at 9:37 PM, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

I think my thread has a good deal of reasoning. It's a lot to read, but it is definitely in there.

 

On 3/7/2016 at 5:27 AM, AKKILLA said:

Heres Reasoning!

I looked for a New Ninja game to get into and saw a Trailer of Ash

 

His trailer is Fantastic,when You actually get Your hands on him You say, hold up! He feels off, and his Bladestorm fools You in the Trailer it looks Fabulous, in game is another thing. I can say I like seeing allies Bladestorm, I love the concept of Bladestorm but DE just slacked off on Ash a bit just a few tweaks along with the Bladestorm Master rework i will post soon. I need Support tho. Its all about the Bladestorm Stance Ultimate because that way it makes players use abilities more like shuriken and smoke screen to mark enemies and teleport in and kill in rapid succession. this will be a Stance like Ultimate because its toggled drain mechanic and will have combos and can utilize abilities like shuriken smoke screen and teleport and channel while in Bladestorm.

This promotes his whole kit, Bladestorm is just a Super Ninjutsu mode You go into and can use your same kit but stronger because

SUPER NINJA ULTI TOO OP PLS NARF! xD

You get the picture, vote for Bladestorm stance Ultimate :)

That trailer is kinda deceiving, lol so with all these common suggestions for his proposed rework, what do we see in ash in the future? more mechanics, more interactivity, more animations...Whatever it could be i just wanted to share my thoughts on what he is now and what he would be.

However the fact that activating his ultimate to achieve full control over all his abilities is abit unrealistic imo, #press4togetthebestofAsh #nahbruh

Have him use smokescreen just like them youtube videos, but in the warframe world. Sensible? Just the way Quiver is, using different arrow types for different situations. The go-to ability should be smokescreen, and a bit more of the other abilities, just like the synergy i mentioned above in the opening of this discussion. I support all reasonable reworks, just hoping I'd see more diversity.

If I were to give opinions on what i would do with his abilities, For passive, i would let Ash have longer wall latches and wall jumping. OR have him gain immunity from procs, as this would go with the thing where ninjas have anti-poison in their arsenal somewhere. As for Shuriken, i noticed it falls off quickly, so increase the number of shurikens fired, and that'll do! An alternative  to replace the ability could be a utility belt but thats too much work. 

Spoiler

lol

Smokescreen should now be throwable ability,(Much like Vauban's abilities) aim then activate. Have it combine with the shuriken, to make the smokebomb thing i mentioned earlier. When inside smokescreen, firing shurikens inside will let them explode after contact with enemy, if no enemy-after 3 seconds. If outside the smokescreen, firing shurikens to the aimed smokescreen would set them off entirely. Finally let there be smoke that has its size affected by range and obscure enemy vision as well as highlight enemies (optional), i will explain more on this on the ultimate.To remove invisibility from this is crucial (IMo id remove it). However, I'd let the player create limited smokescreens to allow a number of enemies to be trapped, much like Frost's globe, but not for defensive purposes, just distracive. This ability should have a special reticle to it, as below;

Spoiler

 I hope ya'll can understand this, however the plus symbol is where to fire towards, the the vertical lines running down are coned so as to know the distance it's fired at and all. ( idk how to explain)

 Teleport seems a little useless when you have Bladestorm doing it better. For that reason, it could be swapped out for an alternative to manouvering or a whole new skill. Alternatively It could become smokedash, which is a a toggle ability, making ash faster and temporarily immune to damage or decreases incoming damage. He basically get this smokey like appearance. Although this ability would restrict primary and secondary weapons from use. Just to be fair, weapons cant turn into smoke, melee is somewhat an exception, this where we could make BS a stance. Transferring the use of the hidden blades into this ability. It could blend in well if you want to take this ability from defensive to invulnerable and offensive. (Which just  gives more reason to make the ultimate even more scary). This would make this ability the stance form for the hidden blades, but without the clones.

Another alternative could be an explosive vertical launch. Lets call it Superjump 2.0. Ash would leap upwards, in an explosive manner and leave a flashbang below. Momentarily after been launched, Ash would be in a space-time manipulation, whereby he slows down for the player to escape or attack (Upto you). 2nd activation after been launched would super-dash Ash to aimed location (Free-aim), yet again leaving a flashbang behind him. We could say that its like Bakougo from Boku no Hero. But imagine it with like a smoke form. This would give Ash the verticality to move around like an actual ninja, propelling himself about the battlefield. Now that Smokescreen can be used in air, this could create somewhat a synergy between the abilities.

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

(Read from left to right)

Now onto Bladestorm, the ultimate. The whole clones thing has to stay! As it should be all about the clones. Ash would summon 2 clones (capable of doing full damage as Ash) who would be sent out into a frenzy doing finisher-kills to targets. Now, the smokescreen hightlights the enemy targets for you, you could just straight off activate this skill to kill all enemies inside all smokescreens. Creates synergy between these 2 abilities now. This ability is all about the clones, charging up this ability, would summon the 2 clones beside you deflecting most of incoming damage (defensive capability) and would stay as long as you have energy. activating with one press would summon clones for attack. I'd rename the ability to Shadow Frenzy, but Bladestorm could still work. 

Spoiler

Probable stance Ash would take to summon /troll

 Now that we have all abilities done, imagine a game with these revamped ideas. Thank you ! Plus his theme should be smoke! These are just my opinions and suggestions btw!

Edited March 8, 2016 by LAWD
Spelling correction

[AKKILLA]

10 minutes ago, LAWD said:

 

That trailer is kinda deceiving, lol so with all these common suggestions for his proposed rework, what do we see in ash in the future? more mechanics, more interactivity, more animations...Whatever it could be i just wanted to share my thoughts on what he is now and what he would be.

However the fact that activating his ultimate to achieve full control over all his abilities is abit unrealistic imo, #press4togetthebestofAsh #nahbruh

Have him use smokescreen just like them youtube videos, but in the warframe world. Sensible? Just the way Quiver is, using different arrow types for different situations. The go-to ability should be smokescreen, and a bit more of the other abilities, just like the synergy i mentioned above in the opening of this discussion. I support all reasonable reworks, just hoping I'd see more diversity.

If I were to give opinions on what i would do with his abilities, For passive, i would let Ash have longer wall latches and wall jumping. OR have him gain immunity from procs, as this would go with the thing where ninjas have anti-poison in their arsenal somewhere. As for Shuriken, i noticed it falls off quickly, so increase the number of shurikens fired, and that'll do! An alternative  to replace the skill could be a utility belt but thats too much work. 

  Hide contents

lol

Smokescreen should now be throwable ability,(Much like Vauban's abilities) aim then activate. Have it combine with the shuriken, to make the smokebomb thing i mentioned earlier. When inside smokescreen, firing shurikens inside will let them explode after contact with enemy, if no enemy-after 3 seconds. .Finally let there be smoke that has its size affected by range and obscure enemy vision as well as highlight enemies (optional), i will explain more on this on the ultimate.To remove invisibility from this is crucial (IMo id remove it). However id let the player create limited smokescreens to allow a number of enemies to be trapped, much like Frost's globe, but not for defensive purposes, just distracive. This ability should have a special reticle to it, as below;

  Hide contents

 I hope ya'll can understand this, howver the plus symbol is where to fire towards, the the vertical lines running down are coned so as to know the distance it's fired at and all. ( idk how to explain)

 Teleport seems a little useless when you have Bladestorm doing it better. For that reason, it could be swapped out for an alternative to manouvering or a whole new skill. Alternatively It could become smokedash, which is a a toggle ability, making ash faster and temporarily immune to damage or decreases incoming damage. He basically get this smokey like appearance. Although this ability would restrict primary and secondary weapons from use. Just to be fair, weapons cant turn into smoke, melee is somewhat an exception, this where we could make BS a stance. Transferring the use of the hidden blades into this ability. It could blend in well if you want to take this ability from defensive to invulnerable and offensive. (Which just  gives more reason to make the ultimate even more scary). This would make this ability the stance form for the hidden blades, but without the clones.

Another alternative could be an explosive vertical launch. Lets call it Superjump 2.0. Ash would leap upwards, in an explosive manner and leave a flashbang below. Momentarily after been launched, Ash would be in a space-time manipulation, whereby he slows down for the player to escape or attack (Upto you). 2nd activation after been launched would super-dash Ash to aimed location (Free-aim), yet again leaving a flashbang behind him. We could say that its like Bakougo from Boku no Hero. But imagine it with like a smoke form. This would give Ash the verticality to move around like an actual ninja, propelling himself about the battlefield. Now that Smokescreen can be used in air, this could create somewhat a synergy between the abilities.

 

  Hide contents

  Reveal hidden contents

(Read from left to right)

Now onto Bladestorm, the ultimate. The whole clones thing has to stay! As it should be all about the clones. Ash would summon 2 clones (capable of doing full damage as Ash) who would be sent out into a frenzy doing finisher-kills to targets. Now, the smokescreen hightlights the enemy targets for you, you could just straight off activate this skill to kill all enemies inside all smokescreens. Creates synergy between these 2 abilities now. This ability is all about the clones, charging up this ability, would summon the 2 clones beside you deflecting most of incoming damage (defensive capability) and would stay as long as you have energy. activating with one press would summon clones for attack. I'd rename the ability to Shadow Frenzy, but Bladestorm could still work. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Probable stance Ash would take to summon /troll

 Now that we have all abilities done, imagine a game with these revamped ideas. Thank you ! Plus his theme should be smoke! These are just my opinions and suggestions btw!

[AKKILLA]

You  just lost my interest when saying remove Teleport.

When DE even change an abilities original name I am disappointed and I lose interest in the Frame or ability itself unless it fits and is a complete upgrade to the Frame, like removal of Super Jump for Exalted Blade which Im sure with Your creativity You will lead Ash Fans to Victory

Yeah right lets be honest here, if You had a great idea you would surely offer it here and im sure You cant come up with something Ash players want anyway

[LAWD]

11 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

You  just lost my interest when saying remove Teleport.

When DE even change an abilities original name I am disappointed and I lose interest in the Frame or ability itself unless it fits and is a complete upgrade to the Frame, like removal of Super Jump for Exalted Blade which Im sure with Your creativity You will lead Ash Fans to Victor

Yeah right lets be honest here, if You had a great idea you would surely offer it here and im sure You cant come up with something Ash players want anyway

lol i should prolly just quote myself; 

 

23 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

 Now that we have all abilities done, imagine a game with these revamped ideas. Thank you ! Plus his theme should be smoke! These are just my opinions and suggestions btw!

See there? My personal suggestions, no need to be negative about it, how would you expect me to understand your suggestions if i had the same attitude? Inspire eachother man..

[AKKILLA]

12 minutes ago, LAWD said:

lol i should prolly just quote myself; 

 

See there? My personal suggestions, no need to be negative about it, how would you expect me to understand your suggestions if i had the same attitude? Inspire eachother man..

I gave as much idea possible. You just reassembled what has been offered throughout the forums and interpreted in your own 

I cant make You agree with My ideas, thats up to your judgement to decide what You like.

As I quoted a guy on My recent thread, You even made the contradiction when you said You rather not, then made the commentary about the Teleport idea You claimed it to be a Stance lol

That made no sense and basically is what I am asking for Bladestorm -___________-

Summon the Clones and use Your Hidden Blades, Shuriken's, Smoke Screen, Teleports etc...

You havent read My thread i figure. Same idea's Koga has. We talk about this everyday, He is My clan leader :)

 

[AKKILLA]

 

[AKKILLA]

Cuz I care soo much about Ashs shadow clones if not Koga would KILL ME ALONG WITH THE ENTIRE DE STAFF lol

 

[LAWD]

oh i get it now! same goal, different ideas.

Well i just wanted like feedback to my ideas for once, cant realy go all over the forums posting all over like i did anymore.

and as for teleport, i just found it strange. 

[AKKILLA]

4 minutes ago, LAWD said:

oh i get it now! same goal, different ideas.

Well i just wanted like feedback to my ideas for once, cant realy go all over the forums posting all over like i did anymore.

and as for teleport, i just found it strange. 

The Bladestorm Stance idea just brings his full kit to life

Shurikens can be used to mark enemies for death, when enemies are hit by it there bleed DoT time period means they are marked and can be Teleported to with out Line of Sight. As long as the enemy is still suffering from the bleed DoT You may Free-cast Teleport and Ash will appear in a split second with in melee range of that enemy

Same with Smoke Screen, enemies inside the cloud are considered marked for death and can be free-cast teleported to as long as 1 or more enemies are inside the cloud choking you are able to appear in a split second.

This allows the player the random teleportations current Bladestorm offers, although not fully as random we have to work for the kills now which one guy didnt like I guess he is too lazy to press "EEE, 1, 2 ,3 EEEE"

The point here is to create a system for Ash to interact and synergize with, and that is the Slash/Bleed DoT procs and consider them Death Marks for Ash players to work with.

To balance things out Ash.Clones attack one enemy each instead, and deal the total damage to one enemy. this would result in killing one enemy faster and higher level enemies scaling better because of the clones focusing on one enemy and melee mod scaling.

Just my calculations