ZiKi1705 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) First of all let me say HI to all readers.. hi dudes... sentinels man... they need a rework.. or... one of them does... Yes its the fan favourite... CARRIER DE has clearly stated that loot is very important in this game.. so we are "forced" to use Carrier cause of his Vacuum skill... well not forced, but in order not to miss anything having carrier with you at all times is the most beneficial way to play.. theres a simple solution to this... but it seems that DE wants us to use only one sentinel.. every kubrow and upcoming companions will fade in comparison to Carrier.. ever.. but... I see two possible options to fix this... First option is to make Vacuum a mod to fit all companions.. like Animal Instinct, that will bring back forgoten sentinels like Dethcube and Wyrm... -|| tell me when was the last time you saw Wyrm being carried out on a mission just cause of its skillset? you may occasionly stumble on a differnet sentinel from time to time but only because the owner is leveling them for mastery points.. which is sad.. a whole class of companions sit in the dark because one of them took the spotlight and wont let go.. ||- or Second option is to put Vacuum as a warframe and/or companions passive... this will free up a mod slot for that Coolant Leak we all want to use.. And the Carrier... it will get a different ability that people will use with guns that have low ammo capacity or drain lots of it.. behold... THE AMMO MUTATION SENTINEL.. this would change the way you see Carrier completely... it will become a sentinel that will fit into certain builds... and on top of all that.. not a must have all the time... well if you have made it this far let me thank you for reading this little rant of mine.. i would rly apreciate any comments and critiques.. #MakeSentinelsGreatAgain Edit: Alright maybe ammo mutation on sentinel might be too much... how about bonus ammo capacity or smth like that for Carrier? any ideas and suggestions would be nice :D Edit2: if Vacuum becomes available for all companions i think it would be fair to increase its cost to 14 and change polarity from precept like to dash... Edited March 21, 2016 by OnyX1705 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zValor Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Have you actually tried using other sentinels? diriga and djinn are great now. Vacuum is over hyped utility. Im with DE on buffing the strengths of other sentinels than just throwing vacuum on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 what do you mean overhyped? its totally the most usefull ability of all sentinels and even kubros (except stalk, but that has been overshadowed by narmon now)... no doubt about it... you can buff others all you want.. the fact is that 99% of the players use carrier and carrier alone... im sure you do too m8... by slapping vacuum on everything you practicaly dont change anything.. as everone already carries the carrier... this will apsolutly let other sentinels shine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zValor Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Im actually a kubrow user, but if I didnt use my dog it would be diriga or djinn. I have let carrier go a long time ago. Also I disagree with it being the best utility when its something I can do myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslaughter Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Vacuum really needs to be opened to all kubrows and sentiels. Its too valuable to not take it for the 99% of us who use guns that eat ammo or use classes that rely on mana drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai_Shiba Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I sold carrier prime once I got it to 30 and stuck back to my Huras with a animal instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 27 minutes ago, Rinslaughter said: Vacuum really needs to be opened to all kubrows and sentiels. Its too valuable to not take it for the 99% of us who use guns that eat ammo or use classes that rely on mana drops. Exactly this... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honkey99 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Got to agree with onyx here, I really can't say that that any of the other sentinels have as much utility for me as Carrier with his high health and vacuum. I would accept a somewhat watered Down version, lets call it "collect", that makes your Kurborrow and/or other sentinel pick up Ammo, resources, health and energy in a less effective manner. I also Like the Idea of a Ammo Mutation mod for the carrier specific if any sentinel can use Vacuum and or if Carrier got the a mod to expand the ammo pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslaughter Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Honkey99 said: Got to agree with onyx here, I really can't say that that any of the other sentinels have as much utility for me as Carrier with his high health and vacuum. I would accept a somewhat watered Down version, lets call it "collect", that makes your Kurborrow and/or other sentinel pick up Ammo, resources, health and energy in a less effective manner. I also Like the Idea of a Ammo Mutation mod for the carrier specific if any sentinel can use Vacuum and or if Carrier got the a mod to expand the ammo pool. I would like to see vacuum's mod cost increased(say from 7 to 12 or even upto 16), opened to all pets & max'd on carrier as a trait, & if you use it on carrier it would increase pull range by 50% of the mods range. I think twice what it is now would be too much, and you cant have the mod do nothing if the trait is maxed mod value. Another idea would be to make these changes to a new [Primed Vacuum] and leave the current one alone to carrier. Edited March 21, 2016 by Rinslaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) How about a completely different ability for Carrier? like Ammo expansion or smth else... Vacuum should stay the way it is now just available for all companions? same as Animal Instinct Edited March 21, 2016 by OnyX1705 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TariousX Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think it would be cool to see Sentinels able to be with you during Archwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, TariousX said: I think it would be cool to see Sentinels able to be with you during Archwing. Sry but your comment is off topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TariousX Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, OnyX1705 said: Sry but your comment is off topic... Yes I suppose it is. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 16 minutes ago, Rinslaughter said: I would like to see vacuum's mod cost increased(say from 7 to 12 or even upto 16), opened to all pets & max'd on carrier as a trait, & if you use it on carrier it would increase pull range by 50% of the mods range. I think twice what it is now would be too much, and you cant have the mod do nothing if the trait is maxed mod value. Another idea would be to make these changes to a new [Primed Vacuum] and leave the current one alone to carrier. I like the mods cost increase, but not the range increase... its good as it is... also a change in polarity from | to -- would be nessessary (as im seeking balance) and i dont like Primed Vacuum... as that will kill Carrier.. which is not the point.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslaughter Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) *The range increase of 50% of mod value i was talking about was if the mod was open to all pets & given to carrier as a passive trait AND you still wanted to equip the mod onto the carrier have it add an additional range. the only reason i would mention this was IF carrier was given max'd vacuum as a passive trait & the mod did nothing it would be hard to convey that to the avg player without checking the wiki with the of trait & mod interaction. Current description: Cost-[7l] [Carrier only] : Detects and collects items throughout the room for its master, including mods.(Current max range is 12m @ max rank) My suggestion is : Cost-[12-16l] [Any sentinel/kubrow] : Collects items & mods up to 12m in any direction. 6m for carriers.* The wording and clarity would be able to be written onto the current size of mod tags. & listing the current range in meters would also clearly show the players that ranking up vacuum does increase the range without having the check the wiki. (sounds dumb but I double checked the wiki to see what/if anything happened on ranking it up when I started playing) I am not trying to kill carrier but there is a reason more then 9/10 players use it. Vacuum is too good to have unique to 1 sentinel when there are other sentinels & kubrows that are interesting but much much less viable in terms of quality of life during play. another idea that someone else mentioned was to give vacuum to everyone and have carrier get a unique carrier only ammo mutation mod set. This would make carrier a very very good option even after opening up vacuum to all other pets. Edited March 21, 2016 by Rinslaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Rinslaughter said: *The range increase of 50% of mod value i was talking about was if the mod was open to all pets & given to carrier as a passive trait AND you still wanted to equip the mod onto the carrier have it add an additional range. the only reason i would mention this was IF carrier was given max'd vacuum as a passive trait & the mod did nothing it would be hard to convey that to the avg player without checking the wiki with the of trait & mod interaction. Current description: Cost-[7l] [Carrier only] : Detects and collects items throughout the room for its master, including mods.(Current max range is 12m @ max rank) My suggestion is : Cost-[12-16l] [Any sentinel/kubrow] : Collects items & mods up to 12m in any direction. 6m for carriers.* The wording and clarity would be able to be written onto the current size of mod tags. & listing the current range in meters would also clearly show the players that ranking up vacuum does increase the range without having the check the wiki. (sounds dumb but I double checked the wiki to see what/if anything happened on ranking it up when I started playing) I am not trying to kill carrier but there is a reason more then 9/10 players use it. Vacuum is too good to have unique to 1 sentinel when there are other sentinels & kubrows that are interesting but much much less viable in terms of quality of life during play. another idea that someone else mentioned was to give vacuum to everyone and have carrier get a unique carrier only ammo mutation mod set. This would make carrier a very very good option even after opening up vacuum to all other pets. i see, but its just complicating things xD so basically it would do the same whatever sentinel you have... then carrier would have a pointless passive... a new ability would be better in my opinion and that was me, but ammo mutation might be too much... maybe extending max ammo capacity... or for every 2 gears used (nrg, health, shield or ammo pizza) you will get 3rd for free aka wont use a charge... ill think of smth :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslaughter Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think ammo mutation wouldn't be too much if the ammo converted was at a reduced efficiency vs the weapon mod mutations. like 50-30% of the weapon mutation efficiency or even down to 15% it would still be really really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslaughter Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) The more and more I think about it the more it sounds like a good idea, turn carrier into a flying ammo processor, after picking up x amount of ammo he craps out an ammo drop of your currently equipped weapon. Edited March 21, 2016 by Rinslaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, Rinslaughter said: The more and more I think about it the more it sounds like a good idea, turn carrier into a flying ammo processor, after picking up x amount of ammo he craps out an ammo drop of your currently equipped weapon. 20 minutes ago, Rinslaughter said: I think ammo mutation wouldn't be too much if the ammo converted was at a reduced efficiency vs the weapon mod mutations. like 50-30% of the weapon mutation efficiency or even down to 15% it would still be really really good. I LOVE IT! seems balanced enough to me :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslaughter Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Found another thread with a very good idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inugami8 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Make Baro bring a sentinel cosmetic item called "make sentinels great again" red cap 'mask'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiko_of_Mugenkai Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I haven't used Carrier since they increased the natural loot pickup radius. You used to need to stand right over something to pick it up. Nowadays it's more generous than that, so Carrier didn't seem important to me anymore. Its usage is so limited, with nothing else it can do other than shoot and pick things up. I'm usually using DETHcube or Shade, if not a Kubrow. I also use Helios and Diriga a lot, depending on the mission. Also Carrier can be terrible in Survival missions when you pick up too many life support packs prematurely like when life support is 90% and above. Instead of just Vacuum, I remember in an old devstream they had mentioned they were pondering on more universal skills (for sentinels but also for warframes). This was before they removed skill mods from warframes IIRC. Of course they seem to have abandoned that idea already, but it'd be great if they thought about it again. If we could further customize our sentinels we'd see more varied and better use of them for sure. The current design philosophy limits the sentinels, so most people don't see the use of other types of sentinels so much. Arguably though the main reason to get Carrier is for the sentinel shotgun, which I think may be the best sentinel weapon of all. When its damage starts to be less useful at high levels, it's still useful for utility so upping its status chance and multishot are really helpful. Impact, Blast, Corrosive and other helpful procs at high levels could really save your life, and because of the spread there's a chance it hits more than one target at a time. DETH Machine Rifle is also good due to keeping a single target under constant fire. Its accuracy seems better than the other auto/semi-auto guns, the way sentinels use them, mostly because of its fire rate I guess. With high fire rate + multishot, even if the proc "chance" is low, it seems to easily make up for it with procs per second, so things like Blast or Burn stun locking happen a lot for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 i dont disagree totally.. but i have several issues with your statements... inate range of pickups isnt that great though... you still need to walk over them to get anything.. and if thats the point of the game... its not a good mechanic.. as you dont want players constantly looking at the floor while a new batch of enemies come at you full force... Also, survival mission, how can that be a bad thing? im apsolutely sure you dont use small modules as a lifesaver especially when they can expire and give only several % back... i have no issue with sentinel weapons... my only issue is that the RANGE of the weapon is depended on the SENTINEL and not the WEAPON itself.. which is rly a sign of bad design... think of it this way... equipping Vulklok on Carrier... will it shoot at long ranges? no.. only at the range it was ment to shoot the shotgun.. dumb... rly dumb.. but i digress.. thats not the point of this thread anyway.. my view is this... mass majority uses ONLY carrier... and thats a bad thing... as a developer you cannot be satisfied with this... its the same as Saryn before the rework.. a bit different though.. as Saryn effected the game of other players... sentinels only affect the owner... and to strip everybody of Vacuum would be a terrible thing.. thats why i wrote this thread.. as im sure 12m vacuum will not be a warframe passive... ever.. they have to give us Vacuum thats usable on a global scale.. bit different.. let it mimic Sanctuary... 10 ranks Dash polarity (instead of D) max lvl capacity of 14.. and let it scale from 1m unranked to 15m fully ranked... 1m per rank... im sure everyone will love this and max this asap.. As for the Carrier... it needs a different ability now... i saw a therad that was written 2 years ago (linked bellow) that makes carrier CARRY additional ammo, energy orbs, health orbs and what not... and if you drop below a certain point it will restore you... that would be awesome and very balanced imo... Because all im asking for is balance.. i personally like the looks of Wyrm prime... a dragon.. but.. i do not see it ever by my side because the usefulness of carriers vacuum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinslaughter Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Has [DE] ever commented on this topic in a dev stream or any other source? After looking around the forums and other places this concept of opening up vacuum to all pets is pretty old and seems unlikely not to have gotten their attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiKi1705 Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 How about this: Loot EMP - Emmits aura that will destroy crates in the area around you while marking them on radar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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