Sprint "fix"

[Callback]

Please reclassify the jump flip out of a slide as a sprint action so we can kick out of it.  This lets people have their old mobility back without the sprint/toggle fix getting in the way.  Think of how the air kick is a sprint action since it leads into a ground slide and can be jump flipped out of.  Simply make it so the flip behaves the same way.

[Alencar]

I do miss my old mobility...

[Estred]

I can back that only if it adequately uses stamina. So we may only do it so many times before we have depleted stamina. Ideally it should take more stamina to repeatedly jump and flip than it does to simply run or slide. Take this as an example.

 

A Jump Flip or a Jump-Slide combo takes (arbitrary number) 50 Stamina per action. You regenerate 25 Stamina during the slide and or Air Time. It would cost you 30-40 Stamina to sprint and cover a bit less ground. This way skillful use of your Stamina can be applied and skill effects how well you move once again.

[Callback]

I can back that only if it adequately uses stamina. So we may only do it so many times before we have depleted stamina. Ideally it should take more stamina to repeatedly jump and flip than it does to simply run or slide. Take this as an example.

 

A Jump Flip or a Jump-Slide combo takes (arbitrary number) 50 Stamina per action. You regenerate 25 Stamina during the slide and or Air Time. It would cost you 30-40 Stamina to sprint and cover a bit less ground. This way skillful use of your Stamina can be applied and skill effects how well you move once again.

Sure, maybe a 0.1 or 0.2 second cooldown before stamina recovery kicks in.  The current values are fine, but delaying the recovery by this small amount would make the difference so repeated actions would be able to exhaust the Tenno,

[Baigan]

When I saw the Topic and I skipped a heartbeat "Omg, they want to nerf sprint now, this nightmare will NEVER stop".

[Clorf]

Heres https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/60713-did-de-ruin-roll-jumps-by-mistake-or-by-intent/'>another thread about the same issue if you want to see more arguments for/against it.  Just connecting the two for everyone's convenience.

[scavenge]

Not that it was still of matter to most ppl it seems but I will never EVER forget the old mobility and will forever miss it.

It didn't make me ragequit or anything (only grown stronger since) but still, the new mobility is just lame (lame being the perfect word) and nothing like the old.

Edited June 15, 2013 by scavenge

[Guest]

keep holding hold sprint throughout the slide and flip and even through pressing control

 

or toggle sprint

 

problem solved sort of, as you don't get the slide boost after the flip>slide

[Estred]

Sure, maybe a 0.1 or 0.2 second cooldown before stamina recovery kicks in.  The current values are fine, but delaying the recovery by this small amount would make the difference so repeated actions would be able to exhaust the Tenno,

Exactly was I was trying to get at. The old movement isn't an issue, but it should use more stamina so that way we as Tenno can only do it for so long before we have no stamina for it. Well said.

[Clorf]

I haven't been doing this lately due to the control issues, but I tested it out a few times this morning and... is it just me, or did they stealth nerf your ability to redirect your momentum with the kick?  Maybe it's just a quirk of the method I was using (toggle sprint), but it seemed to force me to kick/slide in the original direction of the jump rather than letting me do it in any direction like you could before.

[Estred]

I haven't been doing this lately due to the control issues, but I tested it out a few times this morning and... is it just me, or did they stealth nerf your ability to redirect your momentum with the kick?  Maybe it's just a quirk of the method I was using (toggle sprint), but it seemed to force me to kick/slide in the original direction of the jump rather than letting me do it in any direction like you could before.

Isn't that kinda more realistic and believable? Have you tried changing your direction mid air?

 

To answer my own question at least the 2nd one. I have tried changing direction mid air, let me tell you the ground hurt one hell of a lot more when I was not trying to land but trying to move in the air. Currently the only way to move mid-air is to provide a thrust via a dischard usually in the form of an engine. Or to angle yourself so that air-friction causes you to slowly change course, though this can take 100's if not 1000's of feet to make this change.

 

Snarky questions aside, it puts more skill to your movement to control yourself. Previously the Tenno just ignored physics and instantly could turn around mid-air and go backwards. Heck I even moonwalked my Nyx one time.

[Clorf]

Isn't that kinda more realistic and believable? Have you tried changing your direction mid air?

 

To answer my own question at least the 2nd one. I have tried changing direction mid air, let me tell you the ground hurt one hell of a lot more when I was not trying to land but trying to move in the air. Currently the only way to move mid-air is to provide a thrust via a dischard usually in the form of an engine. Or to angle yourself so that air-friction causes you to slowly change course, though this can take 100's if not 1000's of feet to make this change.

 

Snarky questions aside, it puts more skill to your movement to control yourself. Previously the Tenno just ignored physics and instantly could turn around mid-air and go backwards. Heck I even moonwalked my Nyx one time.

Did you know that Warframe is a video game about space ninjas who can run along walls for 20+ meters and slide across the ground at high speed with enough friction to create sparks without burning their knees off?

 

"It's realistic" is not even close to being a sufficient argument for the removal of an extremely fun mechanic that empowers skilled players to do awesome acrobatic feats while also being limited in an interesting way.

[PaperAlien]

Isn't that kinda more realistic and believable? Have you tried changing your direction mid air?

 

To answer my own question at least the 2nd one. I have tried changing direction mid air, let me tell you the ground hurt one hell of a lot more when I was not trying to land but trying to move in the air. Currently the only way to move mid-air is to provide a thrust via a dischard usually in the form of an engine. Or to angle yourself so that air-friction causes you to slowly change course, though this can take 100's if not 1000's of feet to make this change.

 

Snarky questions aside, it puts more skill to your movement to control yourself. Previously the Tenno just ignored physics and instantly could turn around mid-air and go backwards. Heck I even moonwalked my Nyx one time.

Have you tried running vertically up a wall? I bet the ground would hurt a whole lot more if you did.

[Mietz]

Isn't that kinda more realistic and believable? Have you tried changing your direction mid air?

 

To answer my own question at least the 2nd one. I have tried changing direction mid air, let me tell you the ground hurt one hell of a lot more when I was not trying to land but trying to move in the air. Currently the only way to move mid-air is to provide a thrust via a dischard usually in the form of an engine. Or to angle yourself so that air-friction causes you to slowly change course, though this can take 100's if not 1000's of feet to make this change.

 

Snarky questions aside, it puts more skill to your movement to control yourself. Previously the Tenno just ignored physics and instantly could turn around mid-air and go backwards. Heck I even moonwalked my Nyx one time.

 

Realism and Immersion arguments are an indicator of a weak mind.

[Estred]

Did you know that Warframe is a video game about space ninjas who can run along walls for 20+ meters and slide across the ground at high speed with enough friction to create sparks without burning their knees off?

 

"It's realistic" is not even close to being a sufficient argument for the removal of an extremely fun mechanic that empowers skilled players to do awesome acrobatic feats while also being limited in an interesting way.

Except doing what you just listed is all within the realistic interpretations of movement. Running across a wall for 20 meters and sliding across it without burning off are suspensions of disbelief. Asking to pull a 180 degree spin in the air and change direction is 100% completely impossible to do under normal circumstances.

 

I am not saying that is how it should be. I am saying that is what is "realistic" now the question is: "Does that realism help or harm Warframe as a game experience?" Answering that question is really what is important. Personally I have no issues with either movement style so I suppose you must answer the question for yourself.

 

Realism and Immersion arguments are an indicator of a weak mind.

Failing to come up with a reasonable counter argument is also the sign of a weak mind. Get back to me when you have something useful to say.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Estred

[Clorf]

Except doing what you just listed is all within the realistic interpretations of movement. Running across a wall for 20 meters and sliding across it without burning off are suspensions of disbelief. Asking to pull a 180 degree spin in the air and change direction is 100% completely impossible to do under normal circumstances.

 

I am not saying that is how it should be. I am saying that is what is "realistic" now the question is: "Does that realism help or harm Warframe as a game experience?" Answering that question is really what is important. Personally I have no issues with either movement style so I suppose you must answer the question for yourself.

Hahahahaha are you serious?  Wallrunning is within your "suspension of disbelief", but doing a ninja flip is over the line?  You might want to rethink that one a little bit if you hope to convince anybody other than yourself.

 

To answer your question of whether good gameplay should be sacrificed to meet some arbitrary standard of "realism" (but keep wallrunning, that's totally believable you guys!), the answer is an obvious no.

 

Anyway, I did some more testing and figured out that you can still do the kick out of a wall jump without having to hold the sprint button, and you can even use it to change your direction like you could in other situations before they screwed it up.  I suspect that the lack of directional control is a coincidental side effect of the requirement that you be sprinting to do it normally.

[Estred]

Hahahahaha are you serious?  Wallrunning is within your "suspension of disbelief", but doing a ninja flip is over the line?  You might want to rethink that one a little bit if you hope to convince anybody other than yourself.

 

To answer your question of whether good gameplay should be sacrificed to meet some arbitrary standard of "realism" (but keep wallrunning, that's totally believable you guys!), the answer is an obvious no.

 

Anyway, I did some more testing and figured out that you can still do the kick out of a wall jump without having to hold the sprint button, and you can even use it to change your direction like you could in other situations before they screwed it up.  I suspect that the lack of directional control is a coincidental side effect of the requirement that you be sprinting to do it normally.

You misinterpreted what I meant. I meant that changing directions mid-flight is outside my suspension of disbelief, not that simply flipping into a kick was. I would be fine keeping the run system as it is now, or reverting it. Because of the sprint-toggle you can still do everything you could before, just manage your stamina. I still flip into flips, but only so long as I have the stamina to do so. I think many don't realize I neither support the cooldown mechanic no oppose it. To me it's a non-issue.

 

 Yes, I am serious about trying to make this game better and I am sorry you failed to read my post as I intended it. May this response help clear that up a bit. I have never seen in any ninja-movies them change direction mid-air. I have seen:

- Smoke Bomb teleporting

- Vanishing into the night

- Wallrunning

- Kick-Flipping

- Super-Slides

- Stupid long kunai/shuriken throws.

 

I have not seen them totally defy the laws of physics and motion while totally visible.

[Callback]

Latest hotfix removed the cooldown (which I never cared about), but we still can't do out old moves because it was part of the "bug" that got fixed.  Can we please get some attention for this?  Slide -> jump should still count as sprinting!

Edited June 20, 2013 by Callback

[Mietz]

 

I have not seen them totally defy the laws of physics and motion while totally visible.

 

Simple fix then, make the frames invisible for others during the jump-slide so it doesnt offend your sensibilities.

[Estred]

Simple fix then, make the frames invisible for others during the jump-slide so it doesnt offend your sensibilities.

Haha, well I could deal with that. I still have been able to do everything we could do before simply through good management of the Toggle Sprint. So seems like a nonissue to me. If I can do it anyone can.

[claci]

I miss that slide-flip-slide-flip movement too... it was really "ninjaish".. i hope we will get it back..

[Ghobe]

I miss that slide-flip-slide-flip movement too... it was really "ninjaish".. i hope we will get it back..

It IS back in the game. Way to read notes.

Changes:

- Removed Slide Cooldown

^Note it's the very first note. Hotfix thread link

 

You're not allowed to complain about anything if you don't keep up to date with patches and hotfixes.

[Callback]

It IS back in the game. Way to read notes.

 

^Note it's the very first note. Hotfix thread link

 

You're not allowed to complain about anything if you don't keep up to date with patches and hotfixes.

It fixes nothing.  My hand doesn't stretch to the point where I can hold shift the full time while going control space control-hold-space control-hold-...  It needs to count the flip as still a sprint so we can release shift and do our flips like we used to before the stupid bug fix BROKE it.  Cooldown doesn't even mater, that's only for the speed boost and we don't care about that.

[Ghobe]

It fixes nothing.  My hand doesn't stretch to the point where I can hold shift the full time while going control space control-hold-space control-hold-...  It needs to count the flip as still a sprint so we can release shift and do our flips like we used to before the stupid bug fix BROKE it.  Cooldown doesn't even mater, that's only for the speed boost and we don't care about that.

Really? It's that hard to hold shift with your ring and tap ctrl with your pinkie? Try changing the keys then. Don't complain that your hand is too small when you can change the keybindings for every part of the combo.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Ghobe