Multishot damage and Crit Hits

[(PSN)Saobie3]

So im currently following this build for my Opticor, as iv heard this weapon can get "Unnessisary" damage and total obliteration is something i love. Mine is not complete but while i was testing it i landed a crit headshot that read 198,276. After i closed my jaw from dropping after seeing such a high number, i wondered something.

 

This build (obviously) uses multishot. And im guessing both shots hitting the same area do the same damage, but im aware that each shots number shows up seperately (at least in the case where spread is applied. So what im wondering is if i hit 198,276 twice, since both shots hit the same spot and (concievably) both did crit damage and overlapped each othr. OR was that the summed damage of both shots?

[VKhaun]

If you kill the target with the first hit I don't think the second number displays. Multishot for rifles also caps at 90%, so 1/10 shots won't have a second number even if you're not killing them in one.

Headshots which are also critical hits get a third bonus damage modifier, that's why the damage number was so sick. :P

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Hit#Critical_Headshots

Quote

Critical Headshots

This picture displays a headcrit dealing 4x regular headshot damage using an unmodded Lex.

Certain body parts on enemies, most notably heads, will receive additional damage when struck. This location-based damage increase is usually a 2.0x multiplier, but if the strike is a critical hit, then the strike receives an additional 2.0x multiplier on top of the location multiplier and the crit multiplier. This means that while a normal bodyshot results in your weapon's listed damage (before mitigation), a critical headshot from a weapon with a 2.0x crit multiplier would deal 8.0x that listed damage!

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by VKhaun

[(PSN)Saobie3]

1 hour ago, VKhaun said:

If you kill the target with the first hit I don't think the second number displays. Multishot for rifles also caps at 90%, so 1/10 shots won't have a second number even if you're not killing them in one.

Headshots which are also critical hits get a third bonus damage modifier, that's why the damage number was so sick. :P

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Hit#Critical_Headshots

 

Mine has a x4.4 multiplier, does that mean its actually dealing x12 damage o.o

 

The best part is my build isnt even complete. I still have 2 forma to go and then i can add on 90% toxin and 90% electric. I can only imagine how outrageous the numbr gets with those on it, Its already higher than i conceived as possible. 

 

But from what i understand based on what your saying, does that mean if the targt can withstand 200000 damage, it would be applied twice every 9/10 shots o.o, on the 1/3 chance that it crits, and the (admittingly much lower) odds that both shots crit?

[VKhaun]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Saobie3 said:

Mine has a x4.4 multiplier, does that mean its actually dealing x12 damage o.o

A crit to the head would be 17.6x damage.

(2.0 head, x 4.4 crit damage x 2.0 bonus for getting both = 17.6)

 

As a super clear example, I used Tysis (pure corrosive) firing only one projectile, against an unarmored enemy with neutral resist to corrosive.

Listed damage 35. Crit multiplier 1.5x.

Body: 35 damage

Body crit: 53 damage (35 x 1.5 = 52.5)

Headshot: 70 damage (35 x 2.0 headshot location bonus = 70)

Headshot crit = 210 (35 x 1.5 modifier, x2.0 headshot, x2.0 bonus = 210)

210 / 35 = 6x damage.

1.5 x 2.0 x 2.0 = 6

 

 

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Saobie3 said:

But from what i understand based on what your saying, does that mean if the targt can withstand 200000 damage, it would be applied twice every 9/10 shots o.o, on the 1/3 chance that it crits, and the (admittingly much lower) odds that both shots crit?

Status chance gets wonky, but crit is very straightforward. The displayed crit chance in-game is the chance that each individual projectile (damage number) will crit. The damage displayed in-game is the damage of one individual projectile.

WarframeBuilderDOTcom is a useful tool, but it averages out crit and multishot to give you the "Damage" number at the bottom. Adding 90% multishot raises that number to 190%, but in-game you'll never actually see that number. You'll either do 100% with one projectile or 100% with two projectiles (200%) so you have to be careful. Same thing with crit, where adding crit damage mods can give you really high numbers but if your crit chance per shot is low you will have somewhat inconsistent performance from shot to shot, as you do way less on non-crit and much more on crits.

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by VKhaun

[(PSN)Saobie3]

3 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

A crit to the head would be 17.6x damage.

(2.0 head, x 4.4 crit damage x 2.0 bonus for getting both = 17.6)

 

As a super clear example, I used Tysis (pure corrosive) firing only one projectile, against an unarmored enemy with neutral resist to corrosive.

Listed damage 35. Crit multiplier 1.5x.

Body: 35 damage

Body crit: 53 damage (35 x 1.5 = 52.5)

Headshot: 70 damage (35 x 2.0 headshot location bonus = 70)

Headshot crit = 210 (35 x 1.5 modifier, x2.0 headshot, x2.0 bonus = 210)

210 / 35 = 6x damage.

1.5 x 2.0 x 2.0 = 6

 

 

 

Status chance gets wonky, but crit is very straightforward. The displayed crit chance in-game is the chance that each individual projectile (damage number) will crit. The damage displayed in-game is the damage of one individual projectile.

WarframeBuilderDOTcom is a useful tool, but it averages out crit and multishot to give you the "Damage" number at the bottom. Adding 90% multishot raises that number to 190%, but in-game you'll never actually see that number. You'll either do 100% with one projectile or 100% with two projectiles (200%) so you have to be careful. Same thing with crit, where adding crit damage mods can give you really high numbers but if your crit chance per shot is low you will have somewhat inconsistent performance from shot to shot, as you do way less on non-crit and much more on crits.

 

I believe when everythings maxed, the listed damage of my Opticor will be 50k. So 50k x17.6 would be the crit damage? And that would b doubled on the odds that both shots crit right, assuming the target can even live through the initial shot.

 

Thats 880000 damage in a single blast o.o but that cant be right... that number seems downright unsurvivable. I dont think theyd make a weapon capable of ohko virtually anything, right o.o

 

Though to be fair when i was getting my 200k i was using it against grineer. I dont have elemental mods on but i plan to do corrosive. I might just do somethng that can add to the damage though, since with numbers like this it really wont matter what element i use

[VKhaun]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Saobie3 said:

Thats 880000 damage in a single blast o.o but that cant be right... that number seems downright unsurvivable. I dont think theyd make a weapon capable of ohko virtually anything, right o.o

880,000 sounds high. I haven't forma'd mine up all the way, but I can get Serration, all four 90%'s and Piercing Caliber on there. That gives me just under 15,000 damage per shot total between all types. If the last two mods added were Split Chamber and Vital Sense (to match your 4.4 crit multiplier you mentioned earlier) each projectile would be...

15,000 body hit.

30,000 headshot hit.

66,000 crit to the body

264,000 headshot crit.

So if you rolled multishot and two crits, and both hit the head, that'd be 528,000 before armor/resistances.

 

I don't recommend that build though. Most shots won't crit at 15% base and a double crit is going to be rare.

Edited July 6, 2016 by VKhaun

[(PSN)Saobie3]

Just now, VKhaun said:

880,000 sounds high. I haven't forma'd mine up all the way, but I can get Serration, all four 90%'s and Piercing Caliber on there. That gives me just under 15,000 damage per shot total between all types. If the last two mods added were Split Chamber and Vital Sense, each projectile would be...

15,000 body hit.

30,000 headshot hit.

66,000 crit to the body

264,000 headshot crit.

So if you rolled multishot and two crits, and both hit the head, that'd be 528,000 before armor/resistances.

I don't recommend that build though. Most shots won't crit at 15% base and a double crit is going to be rare.

Hm.. well warframe builder is what i use and it listed "total damage" at 50000. Of course i barely know how to use the thing at all so it might just b best to show you it:

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Opticor/t_30_22220330_132-0-5-133-7-5-137-1-10-140-3-5-141-5-5-150-2-10-159-4-5-405-6-5_132-8-137-7-150-8-140-5-159-9-141-6-405-5-133-11/en/2-0-57/34960/0

 

Id like to know the highst possible damage output (headshot crit) for both shots, since the odds of not hitting twice are quite low. The crit rate i find favorable, i crit reasonably often. Not oftn enough to lean upon, but often enough to build for. Its liek roulette, a 40% chance to absolutely decimate the target. Pretty good odds considering the stakes

[VKhaun]

EDIT--

No what I posted in this reply a few minutes ago was wrong, WF builder was still using base crit/crit damage to increase the number when I took the mods off.

Edited July 6, 2016 by VKhaun

[VKhaun]

 

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Saobie3 said:

Hm.. well warframe builder is what i use and it listed "total damage" at 50000. Of course i barely know how to use the thing at all so it might just b best to show you it:

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Opticor/t_30_22220330_132-0-5-133-7-5-137-1-10-140-3-5-141-5-5-150-2-10-159-4-5-405-6-5_132-8-137-7-150-8-140-5-159-9-141-6-405-5-133-11/en/2-0-57/34960/0

Yeah it's averaging out the crit chance and crit damage to try and give you an idea of the "typical" total damage from a body shot. You actual damage number with that is going to be like 12k per damage number. If you roll multishot you'll see it twice for 24k total. If you crit one of the shots that's like 65,000 damage total. I'm estimating now, but you can see what I mean. The 65k from multishot + one crit roll isn't going to be reliable so the average of all the factors ends up down around 50k for a body shot.

 

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Saobie3 said:

Id like to know the highst possible damage output (headshot crit) for both shots, since the odds of not hitting twice are quite low. The crit rate i find favorable, i crit reasonably often. Not oftn enough to lean upon, but often enough to build for. Its liek roulette, a 40% chance to absolutely decimate the target. Pretty good odds considering the stakes

Well you're on the right track when you talk about what crit rate is favorable. Just have to also consider accuracy.

If you stick maxed Heavy Caliber and a bunch of crit damage on a weapon it will always look like super high damage, but can you actually land headshots over and over with max Heavy Caliber at the range you use the weapon? Is it actually faster to kill the target waiting for that big crit, vs increasing crit chance to get more consistency, vs just stacking regular damage?

Used to see this come up a lot with Latron Prime. People would make these crazy high rate of fire crit builds with Heavy Caliber but then you try to use it in game and you have to use the thing like a melee weapon which reloads every fifteen swings LOL.

Edited July 6, 2016 by VKhaun

[(PSN)Saobie3]

41 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

 

Yeah it's averaging out the crit chance and crit damage to try and give you an idea of the "typical" total damage from a body shot. You actual damage number with that is going to be like 12k per damage number. If you roll multishot you'll see it twice for 24k total. If you crit one of the shots that's like 65,000 damage total. I'm estimating now, but you can see what I mean. The 65k from multishot + one crit roll isn't going to be reliable so the average of all the factors ends up down around 50k for a body shot.

 

Well you're on the right track when you talk about what crit rate is favorable. Just have to also consider accuracy.

If you stick maxed Heavy Caliber and a bunch of crit damage on a weapon it will always look like super high damage, but can you actually land headshots over and over with max Heavy Caliber at the range you use the weapon? Is it actually faster to kill the target waiting for that big crit, vs increasing crit chance to get more consistency, vs just stacking regular damage?

Used to see this come up a lot with Latron Prime. People would make these crazy high rate of fire crit builds with Heavy Caliber but then you try to use it in game and you have to use the thing like a melee weapon which reloads every fifteen swings LOL.

This is where i have no doubt.

 

With my R7 Heavy Cal, and the 45 accuracy of the Opticor i dont think it will be to terribly difficult to land headshots. Especially considering iv already been doing that using this mod. Its more likely ill miss because i suck than from shot deviation. 40 accuracy as you may know is perfect, anything over that is a buffer for using Heavy Cal, but too high can be detrminntal, which is why the Quanta, with its crazy 100 accuracy, actually sees deviation in its beams when using Heavy Cal, albeit hardly any. 

 

But anyways, heavy cal takes off 55%. So thats brings accuracy to a little less than 22, which is just fine to work with in mid-range combat. I never work long range since i myself am an unreliable sniper. Im not accurate, i often use weapons that dont need accuracy to compensate for this and remain useful, Ignis being my favorite. The other factor to take in is the hitbox of the Opticors beams seems to be rather large. The deviation including split chambers actually makes it easier to land at least one shot, since (from mid range) the shots spread wouldnt be too terrible and would actually increase the area at which im likely to land a hit. This does decrease my odds of landing headshots though. BUT thats fine because i main Loki and Slova, both frames can easily compensate for this by going invisable and getting in their face, or slowing them to a screeching hault

Edited July 6, 2016 by (PS4)Saobie3

[(PSN)Saobie3]

Wait no... this dosnt make sense lol.

 

An R10 Heavy Cal would reduce a Quantas 100 accuracy to 45, which is still over the threshold for perfect, yet my R7 heavy cal sees deviation.

 

I just tried this for my Supra too. Its base accuracy of 8 only went down to 7 when using Heavy Cal, when it should have gone much lower...

[VKhaun]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Saobie3 said:

Wait no... this dosnt make sense lol.

 

An R10 Heavy Cal would reduce a Quantas 100 accuracy to 45, which is still over the threshold for perfect, yet my R7 heavy cal sees deviation.

 

I just tried this for my Supra too. Its base accuracy of 8 only went down to 7 when using Heavy Cal, when it should have gone much lower...

The accuracy statistic is looney tunes. It's totally useless AFAIK.

[(PSN)Saobie3]

7 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

The accuracy statistic is looney tunes. It's totally useless AFAIK.

Well great lol. Guess ill have to get on and look at the number again, i tend to ignore accuracy since i usually work in ranges where it dosnt make a large difference unless i specifically need headshots. Which means i shouldav been doing this a while ago >.>

 

Ill take a look tomorrow, since im tired rn