Mastery - Level 30 And Beyond.

[11.11.11]

Ok, here's a thought...

 

You know how once you've reached level 30 on a particular frame or weapon, any EXP, mastery points, or whatever you want to refer to them - that are earned with that item - simply vanish off into the ether? Leaving you to go find a new gun or frame, and get your needed points with that? 

 

What if, after a weapon/frame reaches whatever the current max level cap is - it continues to earn you mastery points, even though it's rank no longer increases.

 

Why? Well because currently, the only way to reach a high mastery rank (11 right now), is to farm for/buy the majority of weapons, and level them to max. And while that's a great system, perfect for the completionists among us. It doesn't really serve those who say, only like playing with Loki, or using our prized Latron. 

 

 

 

 

I understand why DE has probably left the system as it is now, because it  forces  strongly encourages players who want the prestige of Rank 11, to spend the time or money getting most of the content in the game. It keeps people playing, and it keeps them reaching for their wallets. It also ensures everyone gets the "whole experience". The hardworking 3D modellers are having their work seen by everyone, not just those who like XYZ.

 

The trouble is, with more an more content being rank locked, and more and more players taking breaks from the game to relieve the monotony of farming, I don't really see that Mastery should be yet another thing to farm. It should come naturally and freely to those who spend the time earning it. And people shouldn't be at a loss because they havn't bought out the entire marketplace. 

 

Contd:

Seeing as Mastery Ranks are called MASTERY RANKS - it's not unreasonable to assume that they're meant not only as a prestige symbol, but also to confer some level of skill and proficiency with your weapon and frames. Hence why there's a test before you transition to the next rank. DE clearly wants people to see these ranks as an indication of a players skill alongside whatever time they've invested in the game. 

 

So why then, are only players who 'master' a wide variety of weapons/frames, rewarded? Surley a pro Latron+Frost+Furis user is just as noteworthy as an average EVERY-SINGLE-WEAPON-AND-FRAME user.

 

 

 

 

Some people just arn't interested in _____ frame(s) or _______ weapon(s), and that shouldn't make it harder for them to get the "I-am-a-good-playerer" badge. Especially if all the uber guns for the smart, attractive tenno, are going to require you to have said badge. 

 

 

I'd love to hear what others think, because frankly, I don't see how this could have many, if any downsides. If you're a jack-of-all trades you'll still get to Rank 11 quickly, and if you're a specialist, you'll also be able to get there too. 

Edited June 21, 2013 by 11.11.11

[Apinaheebo]

+++++++++++ YES

[fishworshipper]

I agree.

[hiryu64]

I literally just got out of a match with a dude that talked down to me because I didn't have an 11 mastery rank. Unless you see someone with one of the three starter frames, very low health/shields, and a mastery rank of 1, then you can't predict anything by looking at their rank. I sat at rank 2 for a VERY long time because I never used any other weapons or frames, but was consistently one of the top performers.

 

So I would agree that the perception of what Mastery rank is versus what it actually represents IS a problem. That said, I'm not sure how to go about fixing or changing it. So, uhh...I got nothin, I guess. +1 anyway.

[unmog]

+1

[Krate]

Every time it says Rank 7 in there I cringed, I know some people that are Rank 11 and have yet to use every item in the game...

[11.11.11]

 

So I would agree that the perception of what Mastery rank is versus what it actually represents IS a problem. That said, I'm not sure how to go about fixing or changing it. So, uhh...I got nothin, I guess. +1 anyway.

 

That's a pertinent point you bring up, I honeslty was so focused on the issue of stuff being Rank-locked, and rank being yet another thing that you basically have to farm, that I forgot about the whole 'image' aspect of it. 

 

Yeah.....I was in a game a few hours ago, attempting the first weekend alert - and running my Nyx. We got to around..5 more waves left, and with the sudden unexpected difficulty spike my two teammates got downed by flamer grineer, and I ended up being juggled between two lancers and a heavy weapons (they were literally tossing me around like a ragdoll).

 

 

After the match, I checked the chat, and saw one of my wingmen had left the comment. "ugh, noob, why didn't you use your powers, don't you know how to play defense?" 

 

I then looked at my Rank 5, then at my collection of 7 lvl 30 frames and 18 lvl 30 weapons, and thought. "sigh" 

 

Honestly, this is something that DE needs to address at some stage. I'm not sure it's as important as just making the whole mastery thing a bit less elitist in its mechanics, but it's definatley a problem. 

 

 

Every time it says Rank 7 in there I cringed, I know some people that are Rank 11 and have yet to use every item in the game...

 

Fixed.

 

Wow it's shot up to 11 already? Damn...that makes my paltry 5 seem even more underwhelming. Your friends arn't the only ones. I've spent 249 hours including closed beta, got all the frames and weapons I'm interested in, yet am still stuck on Rank 5. I know I'm not the only one with this weird mismatch between the time I've spent / progress I've made, and my Rank - because others in my clan have reported the same. The best explanation we've been able to wrangle is that we all spent large periods of time using the same frame/weapon well past level 30. 

Edited June 21, 2013 by 11.11.11

[Zeke01234]

Or maybe half the return so you at least get something...I personally don't want to try a bunch of different warframes I like to identify with 1.

[Jints]

If you think mastery, in this game at least, you should consider the ability to "master" all frames, weapons and fighting styles. Because it's very easy to find a build you are confortable with and stick to it. And there's nothing wrong with that, obviously.

 

But if you talk about mastery then a player who learns how to play and masters the use of different gear and set-ups, should be awarded with a higher rank. 'Cause we all have weapons and frames we really don't like and have no interest in leveling. But we, as I am one of those who try to level everything, do it anyway. So should't I have a higher rank than, lets say, you?

 

Most players want to have a higher rank without doing the work. Always use the same gear is easy. The hard and fun part is to do something that you are not confortable with and that offers a challenge.

 

Just my opinion. To summarize I don't agree with you. The mastery rank system is fine the way it is.

[kamimegurine]

The mastery points earn of this game is really really good, yes u need to farm and then build time then lvl up then sell and again over and over but as u say "Matery" means u are a master... lets make an example: If a lv 2 mastery says that the best weapon in game is the Grakata would u belive in his words? and what about a lv 10 is telling to you that Grakata sucks compared to other MG weapons, ohh there you go...

lv 2 mastery only have used a few weapons so he maybe doesnt know all about other weapons, only the ones he have been using, but the lv 10 have used almost every weapon/warframe in game so he can tell I like X weapon 'cause of blablabla he knows what he's talking about, also have u ever think of ppl who say "Ohh this weapon sucks so hard never craft it" and then 'cause u need some mastery u craft it just with the thoght "Im gonna lvl it to 30 then sell it" and when u get that weapon at lv15 u say Wow!!! I dont know why people hate this weapon im loving it!!!... thts the why of the mastery mecanics. IMO they are perfect!!! Forces u to use every weapon and gives u more security when talking about some weapon/warframe or any mecanic of the game dont u think ?

[Zeke01234]

I also don't like that I have to level weapons I don't enjoy using...don't really have an answer but it does remove some of the "fun" and replaces it with "grind".

[Krate]

Fixed.

 

Wow it's shot up to 11 already? Damn...that makes my paltry 5 seem even more underwhelming. Your friends arn't the only ones. I've spent 249 hours including closed beta, got all the frames and weapons I'm interested in, yet am still stuck on Rank 5. I know I'm not the only one with this weird mismatch between the time I've spent / progress I've made, and my Rank - because others in my clan have reported the same. The best explanation we've been able to wrangle is that we all spent large periods of time using the same frame/weapon well past level 30. 

I'm halfway through Rank 5 with only 80 hours played .-.

[IcarusNine]

I rather like that earning mastery XP requires you to do something unique and out of your comfort zone.  It's not just an endless, meaningless grind where you do the same thing over and over again to achieve a higher number that personifies your unwillingness to change.

 

Plus, it's always fun to see a rank 5 running around with a Burston.

[11.11.11]

 

But we, as I am one of those who try to level everything, do it anyway. So should't I have a higher rank than, lets say, you?

 

Most players want to have a higher rank without doing the work. Always use the same gear is easy. The hard and fun part is to do something that you are not confortable with and that offers a challenge.

 

Just my opinion. To summarize I don't agree with you. The mastery rank system is fine the way it is.

 

 

Thanks for sharing it, though I'm not sure I agree with a few of your points.

 

Why should you have a higher rank than me? Because you tried out more items than I did? Perhaps that could contribute to an independant rank or stat, but I don't really see how using everything, counts as 'mastery'. You could use everything pretty averagly, and still gain 'mastery' for it, which seems a little idiosyncratic. 

 

Always using the same gear is not easy. Using a Vulkar on one of the mini grineer defence alert maps would have been a pain in the butt. And yet I saw someone (who has clearly practiced with the thing a lot) pull it off. Every weapon dosn't work well in every situation, hence why there are different weapons, but if you can adapt your play-style, and develop the ability to use a sniper at close range, or a Boar on the more open maps, I don't see why you shouldn't have the same 'mastery' rank as someone who used whichever of the available weapons fit the scenario. 

 

Sure as you say, it can be a challenge to try new things. But in too many ways, the game forces us to try them. "You must have this minimum level of proficiency and excitement to proceed." is the same nonsense that BF3's story campaign tried to pull, and some people just find it obnoxious and boring. 

 

Of course, all just my opinion :P 

[11.11.11]

I'm halfway through Rank 5 with only 80 hours played .-.

 

Yeah I have no clue what happened to me ._.

 

 

 

 

The mastery points earn of this game is really really good, yes u need to farm and then build time then lvl up then sell and again over and over but as u say "Matery" means u are a master... ... thts the why of the mastery mecanics. IMO they are perfect!!! Forces u to use every weapon and gives u more security when talking about some weapon/warframe or any mecanic of the game dont u think ?

 

 

I like where you're coming from with that perspective.

 

But frankly, I see that as a case of individuals being at fault for talking about weapons they've never played with to any real degree - rather than it being a reason the system clearly works. 

Edited June 22, 2013 by 11.11.11

[Skullbash258]

I'm fine with the mastery ranks because then you get to try out bunches of things and choose your favorites for your loadout.

 

And frankly, the programmers have better things to do than figure out a whole new mastery rank system, like bug fixes and trading

[Winterbraid]

I think Mastery is fine the way it is, you could call it something else - Flexibility, Adaptability, Enlightenment, whatever - but ultimately it's meant to represent the knowledge of the Tenno arsenal as a whole, not just a single, limited part of it.

 

Of course someone could have used just a single frame and a single weapon throughout their entire Tenno career and have become truly amazing with them, but then their performance will speak enough for them that they shouldn't also need a number to quantify their skill - and they should have enough confidence in their skill that they don't need to rely on a number for their self-esteem.

 

What I think is bad though is that Mastery is required just to obtain certain items, which artificially limits their availability and encourages pointless grinding of weapons and frames you'll never ever look at again.

 

So perhaps a new, separate stat should be added that will take into consideration Forma and the use of items beyond level 30, and items should have requirements based on that stat instead.

[LasersGoPewPew]

what if it worked like mmorpg X Y and Z, more kills/total affinity you get the closer you are to a new rank?. people go on massive murder sprees all day everyday like no lifers will still be at the top of their lists, and people who like using their specific weapon setup can still get to the rank they want for their prized gun/guns of choice. i'm not sure how simple it would be convert "mastery" *cough* "use til 30 and sell"*cough* to something like that.

[11.11.11]

 

What I think is bad though is that Mastery is required just to obtain certain items, which artificially limits their availability and encourages pointless grinding of weapons and frames you'll never ever look at again.

 

So perhaps a new, separate stat should be added that will take into consideration Forma and the use of items beyond level 30, and items should have requirements based on that stat instead.

 

 

I think that's my main gripe with the current system. I really don't mind having a Rank of 5, I can ignore the mudslingers, and be content with my modest little collection. What irritates me is when I've spent so long playing, as long as others of higher ranks, but I don't get acces to the super-weapons I spent all the time farming for - simply because, witchcraft went down, and I somehow don't have the dictated rank. 

 

Maybe just stripping away the rank requirement, or altering it to be dependent on playtime perhaps, would be all that's needed. 

[mogamu]

The more I play with new frames and weapons, the more I learn about the ones I already had when I go back and revisit them...and I also learn to be a better teammate to those using those frames because I got a sense of their strengths and weakness and what they need from me.

 

Having played some of the other frames and getting a sense of things like energy consumption and timing of skill use...I notice that I'm able to get my team to higher defense waves.  For instance, I played the event today with a lvl 12 Saryn (i was ash) and we got to like wave 18 with no problem...got a little clumsy and died...but the situation was totally under control because I could almost guess how much energy Saryn had at any given moment.  

 

Rank is actually free, you dont have to spend a dime to reach a very high rank.  I understand people have thier favorite frames, but trust me diversifying is good.  keep an out for those reactor blueprints and plan ahead.  Dont be afraid to delete frames if you cant afford slots.

Edited June 22, 2013 by mogamu

[P1RAT3]

The only gripe I have with the current system is that it forces you to play with the other weapons in order to progress, I have no problem playing out of my comfort zone and i'm pretty well known on my other [actually comp] FPS's as being the jack of all trades who can play anything at any time and still be very good with it.

 

A simple way to fix this mastery problem is to just make forma'd weapons give you half mastery ranking exp than normal. That way the Dev's could still make money [purchasing forma a lot if you really want to make those mastery points faster] and the players who love their set up [You'll never see me without a bow unless i'm 30trashing a main weapon] won't have to get frustrated. Maybe even add in diminishing returns for even more balance? Forma'd weapons return half of the normal mastery ranking exp for the first forma, a quarter of normal mastery ranking exp on second, and none on the third. And forma'd frames can do that up to 4 times ^. 200->100->50->25.

[11.11.11]

 That way the Dev's could still make money [purchasing forma a lot if you really want to make those mastery points faster] and the players who love their set up [You'll never see me without a bow unless i'm 30trashing a main weapon] won't have to get frustrated. Maybe even add in diminishing returns for even more balance? Forma'd weapons return half of the normal mastery ranking exp for the first forma, a quarter of normal mastery ranking exp on second, and none on the third. And forma'd frames can do that up to 4 times ^. 200->100->50->25.

 

An interesting possible solution. Not entirely sure why it hinges on weapons being froma'd however, a process that still requires either platinumn, or a great deal of luck in Tower raids. And the diminishing returns, dosn't make a great deal of sense either, why bother trying to squeeze fewer and fewer points from a forma'd weapon when it'd be quicker and cheaper to just go level up another one that you fancy..

Edited June 26, 2013 by 11.11.11