Forma, Do We Really Need This, Why Do People Want To Change It, And Does It Even Matter?

[CatPhoenix]

People complain about the darnest things.  

 

1) Mastery range doesn't increase when you forma polarize an item.  

Because it makes so much sense to gain more mastery using a weapon that you have mastered when you put a notch on your blade to make it slightly better?  Does that little notch make the weapon any harder or different to use?  If it doesn't, why should your mastery rank, which measures how well your Tenno can use different warframes and weapons use, increase for an optional notch you put in a weapon of your choosing?  (Just wanting it to be that way isn't a good excuse.)

 

2) Forma is magically needed for metal to stick together to create rooms and addon things in the dojo.  

I could complain about this, but they could easily come up with some lore where it all makes some logical sense.  For example, more forma is required to keep matter stable in the void.  The large/more electronics in the room require more forma to make the room exist.  I can live with this.

 

And now my own darnest complaint about forma

3) Forma removes the uniqueness of warframes and weapons of the game.

One uses a forma to polarize an existing slot so you can have more mods on it.  You know what fine, you want to make the game easier and more of a cakewalk, be my guest.  My issue is that you can use forma to change the affinity of an existing slot.  What is the point of having affinities on warframes then.  If one can simply forma them up, one can make every single warframe completely identical, and homogenize the whole experience.  Oh look, Rhino has only these defense slots, let's change everything so it is ability heavy and make it even harder to run out of energy.  This would be an equivalent of changing a tank class into a spell caster in other games.  (I do not hold myself to any actual accuracy of the rhino example, if the rhino does not have defense polarization slots, please replace the name of rhino in your head with a warframe that has only those polarizations.)

 

What's the point of having all of these different amazing frames, when you can make all their polarization identical, and have the only difference between all them be their initial armor, life, shield, and recharge stats? 

 

In the end, it really doesn't matter, since it is a PvE game, and if someone chooses to change how the frame was originally and do what they want with it instead, you know, whatever at this point.  

 

My only question is, why, why, why, why, do you want and need your game to be so much easier and change a frame in such a way from what it was originally to make it what you want?  The idea of existing with the flaws/pros/cons of each frame and having a different play style for each frame that hard to phantom?  

 

Please forma responsibly, and don't complain on what it can and cannot do to what you think it should desire.  It all doesn't mean much in the end.  Just have fun.  Thanks to anyone that reads this rant, I'm not even complaining about it anymore at this point, just wanted to get this out there and out of my head.

[Xoxile]

The reason I polarize is because I like to customize. Forma do not make all the frames the same. They have their own abilities, and like you mentioned their base stats. That is enough. Just because you can give Loki a bunch of D slots does not mean it can tank like Rhino, or Frost.

[Bleak_Advent]

The only way forma makes the Frames samey is if you strip off all of their abilities and just make them skins. Assuming you forma to enhance your individual Warframe, mods like Steel Fiber, Redirection, Vitality, etc scale with base attributes (they are +% of base stat @ current rank), so your maxed out mods on Loki are going to still grant you less health and armor than say those same maxed mods on a Rhino or Frost. The only thing forma allows you to do is to max out your mods. You still can only have 10 mods at the end of the day.

[ItsGary]

Even with Forma.. i wouldn't use my Banshee as a tank.  It's their skills that make them unique.  Also the fact they all look unique to their specific theme. 

 

I do,however, kind of agree with forma on weapons.  If you supercharge + Forma your weapon it's basically the same build on most if not all weapons.  The basic damage mod, AP, elemental etc.  We could use some more unique builds with weapons.

 

 

ALSO, this should go into the feedback forum.... as you are giving feedback, even if you call it "complaining/ranting".  People need to start using the forums correctly. 

Edited June 24, 2013 by ItsGary

[Seanjuju]

Why? Customization

[Zareek]

I like forma. Leave forma alone.

[Khranitel]

What's the point of having all of these different amazing frames, when you can make all their polarization identical, and have the only difference between all them be their initial armor, life, shield, and recharge stats? 

Really?

Y'know, in front of all those mods for your warframe there was a bunch of some special cards... some people call them 'abilities'... so, you know, they are unique to each warframe! I didn't believe my eyes! What a striking discovery it was! Go, check it out, you'll be amazed!

Edited June 24, 2013 by Khranitel

[Aigloblam]

1) Mastery range doesn't increase when you forma polarize an item.

When you Forma, the whole idea, including Lore, is that you are changing it in fundamental ways. If you were a master of, lets say, a Wakizashi, and someone came along and said "Hey, try this" and welded another section of blade on, that would in effect turn it into a Katana. Still a blade, still has the same curve, but it will act totally different now. So it would take time to get used to the changes in your weapon. Not as long as before, but a while nonetheless. Which is why i say set up a system of diminishing returns for XP in those situations.

 

2) Forma is magically needed for metal to stick together to create rooms and addon things in the dojo.
Your answer is perfect, so...Yeah.

 

3) Forma removes the uniqueness of warframes and weapons of the game.

Not really. I can see how you might think that, but it only removes the uniqueness if we,  as players, mod every frame the same way. I look at forma as a way to make something MINE. I can say with almost 100% certainty that there is nobody else out there that has modded an Excalibur like me. Trust me on this....It would seem like pure stupidity to anyone else.

We have worked several hours, over 300 in my case, on these frames. Forma is a way to make up for their weaknesses a bit, or Emphasize their strengths. Yes it makes the game easier, but after playing as long as some of us have, Thats fine. When i could Solo the hardest boss at 20th level, i realized how easy the rest of this game would be...but its still loads of fun. Im not exactly sure how to explain how i feel about it...Also im totally at a loss for how im going to end this answering wall of text...So i'll just take a small bow.


*bow*

[Viziroth]

Without forma orokin aesthetics and technology can't be widely used, as they are beyond what is capable of the other factions/races.

[CatPhoenix]

 

ALSO, this should go into the feedback forum.... as you are giving feedback, even if you call it "complaining/ranting".  People need to start using the forums correctly. 

 

I was originally going to post it as feedback, but in the end, I don't really want them to change anything and simply wanted to vent, so I posted here instead.

[Aigloblam]

Weapons...Yeah they are all pretty samey anyway. But some of the fun there is seeing how amazing you can make a shltty weapon. I absolutely LOVE my Zorens, even though most people seem to hate them for their low damage. Well with enough Forma in them, in my case 3, i have made up for the loss of damage by applying approximately three metric tons of On-Hit effects ;)

[Aigloblam]

I was originally going to post it as feedback, but in the end, I don't really want them to change anything and simply wanted to vent, so I posted here instead.

You get +3 Internets for not being another random douchecanoe who feels over-entitled.

[mindlessframe]

Lets just hope they introduce some kind of difficulty to this game with some reward so that we have reason to forma stuff.

[Aigloblam]

Lets just hope they introduce some kind of difficulty to this game with some reward so that we have reason to forma stuff.

They will. At least thats the plan, and its also supposed to be in before Update 9, according to the last live stream. They are just trying to find the right balance for difficulty settings.

[CatPhoenix]

1) Mastery range doesn't increase when you forma polarize an item.

When you Forma, the whole idea, including Lore, is that you are changing it in fundamental ways. If you were a master of, lets say, a Wakizashi, and someone came along and said "Hey, try this" and welded another section of blade on, that would in effect turn it into a Katana. Still a blade, still has the same curve, but it will act totally different now. So it would take time to get used to the changes in your weapon. Not as long as before, but a while nonetheless. Which is why i say set up a system of diminishing returns for XP in those situations.

 

 

 

 

I suppose we're looking at mods in different ways.  You see it as physically modifying the object, while I'm thinking you're putting something on it which is easily removed and replaced.  This is a horrible analogy, but do you need to relearn to drive a car if you swap the engine out with gets another 5 horsepower?  I would kinda doubt that.  But do you need to relearn mastery to ride a motocycle, you bet.

 

 

 

 

 

3) Forma removes the uniqueness of warframes and weapons of the game.

Not really. I can see how you might think that, but it only removes the uniqueness if we,  as players, mod every frame the same way. I look at forma as a way to make something MINE. I can say with almost 100% certainty that there is nobody else out there that has modded an Excalibur like me. Trust me on this....It would seem like pure stupidity to anyone else.

We have worked several hours, over 300 in my case, on these frames. Forma is a way to make up for their weaknesses a bit, or Emphasize their strengths. Yes it makes the game easier, but after playing as long as some of us have, Thats fine. When i could Solo the hardest boss at 20th level, i realized how easy the rest of this game would be...but its still loads of fun. Im not exactly sure how to explain how i feel about it...Also im totally at a loss for how im going to end this answering wall of text...So i'll just take a small bow.

*bow*

 

 

 

Never really thought about making a weapon 'mine' per say.

 

I suppose my issue would be with modifying the base with how it originally comes.  Every frame as a strength and weakness, and it seems to be an odd gameplay thing to be able to change/remove some of these, but there is still the base stats, so everyone plays it differently.  I've made my peace.

[Aigloblam]

 

 

This is a horrible analogy, but do you need to relearn to drive a car if you swap the engine out with gets another 5 horsepower?  I would kinda doubt that.  But do you need to relearn mastery to ride a motocycle, you bet.

Yeah, I'll admit that...I had just woken up though, So i claim no responsibility for horrible analogies lol

A more direct example would be something like Reflex Coil. Lets say you for some reason made Reflex Coil the last mod you put on a weapon, but didnt have enough room to max it out. If you Puzzle that weapon, you can now get the full ranked mod installed. This is going to change the weapon a decent amount. When i played my friend's account for a bit once, I kept missing with my charge attacks, because he had no Reflex Coil, so i was running into the mobs, glancing off, and my charge attack would simply miss. That took more getting used to.

Im really OK with both scenarios (getting or not getting XP after Forma) i just figured i would keep the discussion going. Its a good one.

[Zhero8232]

If forma does not give you additional mastery ... why reset the item level back to 1?

It's the same weapon I mastered, why am I being asked to re-master it?

 

Cockblocked

[Xoxile]

If forma does not give you additional mastery ... why reset the item level back to 1?

It's the same weapon I mastered, why am I being asked to re-master it?

 

Cockblocked

Because polarizing a weapons all the way at once is stupid.

[Zhero8232]

Because polarizing a weapons all the way at once is stupid.

 

Yes, that would be stupid.

[Aigloblam]

If forma does not give you additional mastery ... why reset the item level back to 1?

Because if it didn't reset to Unranked, you could just drop all the forma you want into it, and not have to work at all for it. This is a way to either make the game more challenging, or to pad it out so it seems longer/bigger than it really is, depending on how you look at it.

 

It's the same weapon I mastered, why am I being asked to re-master it?

Lore wise, Its not the same weapon, Its now infused with more orokin technology.

Game wise, Because it needs to be ranked back up to max, see question 1. lol

 

 

[Zhero8232]

Lore wise - Then I should gain additional mastery for learning to use this additional Orokin tech.

Game wise - Cockblocking

[Aigloblam]

Lore wise - Then I should gain additional mastery for learning to use this additional Orokin tech.

Game wise - Cockblocking

As much as i'd love to argue with you (And believe me, I would) I really can't fault your cockblocking theory. Seems legit.