Have you played Saryn recently?

[Lendalas]

7 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

You are basically saying Saryn is a Jack of all Trades, Master of None. While I am saying only Masters matter. 

Saryn, Nova, Excal and Ash went into 2nd Sortie (Corpus Eximus stronghold). The results:

[Racter]

I have a build that's 128% duration 130% efficiency 250% range and 140% strength that I have a lot of fun derping around with in survivals. I don't run the Molt augment, though. I found it was getting me killed more often than not (primarily use Naramon and go melee only for this build). Because of the energy return on toxic lash popping spores, I generally have no energy issues at all using this build.

 

If you need her old instant mid level room clear, use her 1 once and bring Hikou P with max fire rate and Concealed Explosives. It works almost as fast as it used to, up to about the same level it used to, with no problems. If you're doing low level stuff and insist on using her to clear rooms with Miasma, use a max efficiency max range 140 strength 78 duration build, it does ~1140 damage with no buffs ~4560 if you toxic+viral first,  ~9130 if their EHP is at that point or lower thanks to the viral proc.

 

Having said all that, I wish they had left the negative duration scaling on Miasma alone and just done the other changes on top of it. You would have the option of using just Miasma below ~60, or just Spore around the same, and the whole viral+toxic dot synergy past that. The builds wouldn't be directly compatible, because with the old 12 (7? with the helmet)% duration Miasma build your Spore would do literally nothing, so you would have 3-4 separate and effective ways to build her to your preference. Rhino is a good example of this. At low-mid levels, you can build for Stomp to have a massive range and kill everything. For high levels, you can build for stomp to just CC a huge area cheaply for a reasonable duration. At either end, you can build for Roar, or Iron Skin, or have a sort of all rounder build that does everything decently. With Saryn's rework, Spore + Hikou fall off 10-20 minutes before the entire viral+toxic+Miasma combo is just tickling even with 239% Strength. At the very least, the base damage of Miasma per tic or the number of ticks could have been a good deal better than it is now so it at least elicits a feeling other than regret when you press 4 on her lol

 

EDIT: Lendalas that's not really a good selling point. I had almost twice your kills when I ran it as Rhino just melee'ing around aimlessly with a War, lol

Edited August 31, 2016 by Racter0325

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

3 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

No, because, as I already implied, I don't pick a white mage and try to make them front line DPS (which is the exact equivalent of what you are implying when you are complaining about Nova being bad at melee). Frames have roles. If I want a melee frame, I pull out something like Valkyr. 

I have made this clear, repeatedly.

Then, what is exactly your point to say that Saryn is not worth it? 
That you don't like her and don't use high sustain dps characters doesn't mean that Saryn is a bad character at all... 
Also, Saryn kills more enemies than Valkyr faster than she does... So Valkyr can't take Saryn's place in a squad either. Try using a character instead of talking nonsense please.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

16 hours ago, Lendalas said:

Saryn, Excal and Ash

Keep trying and you should be able to get a good team, eventually. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

13 hours ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

Then, what is exactly your point to say that Saryn is not worth it? 
That you don't like her and don't use high sustain dps characters doesn't mean that Saryn is a bad character at all... 
Also, Saryn kills more enemies than Valkyr faster than she does... So Valkyr can't take Saryn's place in a squad either. Try using a character instead of talking nonsense please.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so stop taking it personally when someone insults your waifu. 

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so stop taking it personally when someone insults your waifu. 

nop, I'm just asking. What's your point on telling the OP that Saryn is a bad character when she is a really good frame?
it doesn't make sense that you compare her to a warframe that fills a totally different role, and tell that she is bad because she can't effectively fill a role she has not been made for.
it's ok if you don't like her, or if you don't like melee combat. But, that doesn't mean that a character is not worth it IMO.
But, anyway. Most of the answer on this thread were possitive about Saryn, so gladly, the OP has a correct idea about the frame. My job is done here lol.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

it doesn't make sense that you compare her to a warframe that fills a totally different role

I was using Nova as an example of a Frame that has a solid and useful role, I was not saying the two of them should try to fit the same role. This should have been obvious when I kept making the example about not using a white mage as frontline DPS. If you are not smart enough to understand this then there is nothing I can do. I have tried every way I can think of to simplify it for you, and you still miss the point by a mile. 

 

[Weltraumfred]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so stop taking it personally when someone insults your waifu. 

We are also entitled to pick your decidedly subpar arguments apart.

By the way, you keep ignoring the fact that Saryn performs exceedingly well in the DPS department, and is indeed one of the top DPS dealers. While additionally reducing enemy health by 50% in a very large radius. Admittedly, the latter is technichally a debuff and a secondary capacity, and thus does not fit well into your single role paradigm (to which I do not subscribe by the way, because it is awfully limiting to Warframe design).

 

But you** know what, something positive, just yesterday I carried a team with relatively low mastery ranks through 2000K cryotic on Hieracon (and we might have managed more). By keeping the enemies spored, poisoned and occasionally staggered. With that, the other players had easier kills and quite a bit of fun (at least they said so in the comments). So Saryn is also very good at helping other people along.

 

** the general you

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, Weltraumfred said:

While additionally reducing enemy health by 50% in a very large radius

I am really not ignoring it though. I actually touched on it already. To reiterate, it is pointless because of the destruction of the void.  There is no reason to do long endless missions anymore.  Since you can just vaporize enemies instantly anyway, taking the time to cut their health in half first is basically pointless. 

3 minutes ago, Weltraumfred said:

I carried a team with relatively low mastery ranks through 2000K cryotic on Hieracon

I do that all the time with Frost and Nova. It's not particularly hard since it is an invested mission. I actually just carried some people using a rank 0 Valkyr today. 

[Eminem2420]

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 6:48 PM, jfhsanseiIII said:

That's actually what I like about her now.  Everyone's going to have their likes and dislikes though.  My one caveat those is a particular disdain for one and done frames.  Ember is a particularly sore spot for me.  It's the laziest kind of play.  

I main Ember and with the way most people play, I agree with you. They press 4 and run around like they are something. They know nothing of her other skills. Then when you tell them politely to stop, they scream and whine at you.

[Eminem2420]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I am really not ignoring it though. I actually touched on it already. To reiterate, it is pointless because of the destruction of the void.  There is no reason to do long endless missions anymore.  Since you can just vaporize enemies instantly anyway, taking the time to cut their health in half first is basically pointless. 

I do that all the time with Frost and Nova. It's not particularly hard since it is an invested mission. I actually just carried some people using a rank 0 Valkyr today. 

With respect, there are a lot of people who still enjoy to go on long survival or defense missions. Saying Sayrn is pointless because of no endgame is the equivalent of me telling you your favorite frame is pointless because of X reason I made up.

[Weltraumfred]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I am really not ignoring it though. I actually touched on it already. To reiterate, it is pointless because of the destruction of the void.  There is no reason to do long endless missions anymore. 

There has only been a single reason to do long endless missions: because you like doing them. Even with the old void, you could just stop after rotation C and restart. It was much easier this way. And what about that DPS? People who run faaaaar more efficient/cheesier Saryns then me already commented that she reliably scores top damage and/or kills. If that isn't your experience, maybe you didn't get to play with an optimized Saryn. And even under your "one role" paradigm, that would mean that she has a role as the top damage dealer.

[Helch0rn]

1 minute ago, Eminem2420 said:

With respect, there are a lot of people who still enjoy to go on long survival or defense missions. Saying Sayrn is pointless because of no endgame is the equivalent of me telling you your favorite frame is pointless because of X reason I made up.

Fashionframe is endgame and Saryn beats everyone at Fashionframe

[Weltraumfred]

Admittedly ... I think she looks fugly. (I am very sorry ...)

The Tentacles and the fleshy bow are just too much

Edited September 1, 2016 by Weltraumfred

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I was using Nova as an example of a Frame that has a solid and useful role, I was not saying the two of them should try to fit the same role. This should have been obvious when I kept making the example about not using a white mage as frontline DPS. If you are not smart enough to understand this then there is nothing I can do. I have tried every way I can think of to simplify it for you, and you still miss the point by a mile. 

 

lol, you weren't smart enough to realize that you were about saryn anyway. 
Could you explain with proper arguments that Saryn is a bad character then? if you don't you don't seem to be smart enough to tell me I'm not. 
You came here without ANY valid point to proof that Saryns is a bad character, yet you tried to counter every single argument that correctly proof otherwise. But, gladly you failed miserably to do so. The OP got the correct idea of Saryn instead of your Hipster meta opinion. 
 

Edited September 1, 2016 by (PS4)BrutalReaper32
typo

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, Eminem2420 said:

With respect, there are a lot of people who still enjoy to go on long survival or defense missions. Saying Sayrn is pointless because of no endgame is the equivalent of me telling you your favorite frame is pointless because of X reason I made up.

You don't have to. I can tell you why my favorite frame is ruined. R.I.P. Trinity. 

1 minute ago, Weltraumfred said:

Even with the old void, you could just stop after rotation C and restart.

That was a waste a infinitely less efficient. 

1 minute ago, Helch0rn said:

Fashionframe is endgame and Saryn beats everyone at Fashionframe

I think this is fair. 

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

2 minutes ago, Weltraumfred said:

Admittedly ... I thinks she looks fugly. (I am very sorry ...)

noooo :c

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

-snip-

You plugging your ears and refusing to listen isn't the same as me not giving you legitimate reasoning. 

[Weltraumfred]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That was a waste a infinitely less efficient.

Not if you were swimming in keys. I was swimming in keys. Except for Sabotage.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 minutes ago, Weltraumfred said:

Not if you were swimming in keys. I was swimming in keys. Except for Sabotage.

Depends on the Key. I was always lacking in T3S keys. 

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

You plugging your ears and refusing to listen isn't the same as me not giving you legitimate reasoning. 

I think you were the one didn't want to hear. 
Multiple people and I were just responding to your comments on why you think Saryn was a bad warframe. We had success showing you that Saryn is a top Damage dealer and Sustain Melee, but with every single one of your comments, you tried to refuse that. Even with empirical proofs that we were correct, you still were trying to make Saryn look like trash. But, as I said, fortunatelly, you were the only one in this thread that thought Saryn was a bad warframe. So I'm happy. 
We can just end this here. Everyone on this post accepts that Saryn is one of the strongest DPS warframes on the game, so I don't need to keep defending her. Now, if you want to keep attacking her, I could keep going. 

I mean, why should I listen to someone who is speaking nonsense about a warframe he has no clue on how to use? ;)

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

-snip-

More people saying something doesn't make it true. You should give this a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

[Weltraumfred]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

More people saying something doesn't make it true. You should give this a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

And yet, it is the only set of data we have. Not that people believe that Saryn deals high DPS, but that people actually scored highest damage when playing with a team with other fairly optimized frames in it.

DE, of course has a whole other set of data, but they're unlikely to publish. And even if DE would publish the average damage dealt by all Saryn players, the argument can be made that because of her high dependence of combos, a substantial amount of players underperfom, and decrease her mean damage. So even this set of data wouldn't give you the whole picture.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Weltraumfred

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

More people saying something doesn't make it true. You should give this a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

but, did you proof that Saryn was a bad warframe? 
In this case, it has nothing to do with the amount of people supporting her, but that the one guy against her didn't say anything that gave him the reason. 
Am I wrong, or are you finally going to proof that Saryn is a bad warframe that can't kill fast enough to fill the DPS role?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

but, did you proof that Saryn was a bad warframe? 
In this case, it has nothing to do with the amount of people supporting her, but that the one guy against her didn't say anything that gave him the reason. 
Am I wrong, or are you finally going to proof that Saryn is a bad warframe that can't kill fast enough to fill the DPS role?

Did you post a video of you clearing level 9999 like was claimed? No? Then you didn't post proof either. 

I supported my statements logically. You resorted to various logical fallacies instead then tried gloating about it See:

11 minutes ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

;)

Playing chess with a pidgin, indeed.