Why Are People Tolerating The Fact That Prime Variants Are Direct Upgrades To Their Counterparts?

[DefconOrange]

Just wait till they introduce "Omegas" as direct upgrades to Primes.

 

It will never end, it will just keep going like any other gear-dependent game where we will get "heroic difficulty" and other S#&$ where you will need optimized DPS and crap.

 

What a complete waste.

[ZoeSoft]

I just wish one could craft their weapons with other materials (DE could even make those materials Platinum only) to make their Prime versions.

Its a waste that I can work hard to level up and prima a weapon, and then to start all over again because its Prime version was released.

 

It should be possible to carry over the progress of a weapon to its Prime counterpart.

[helosie]

You have to consider the grind hell you have to go through to get these "Prime" weapons vs "Normal" versions of the weapons.

[R3leaZ]

Please keep your posts civil. I'm pretty sure bad language will not be tolerated.

Edited July 14, 2013 by R3leaZ

[SawyerGriffin]

Sure, with warframes there's literally no difference other than the extra polarity slot, but all Prime weapons outperform the normal versions. The former benefit can be fixed with a single forma, while the latter can never achieve the same end-state potential with any amount of modding.

 

This opens the future up for a scenario where a person has invested quite a bit of platinum on a weapon, only for a Prime version to come out that has greater potential than the original weapon in every single way. With current weapons, the improvement is not small by any stretch of the imagination. The Latron Prime has 12.5% more damage and 33.3% more critical chance, which can be translated to a significant amount of mod levels.

 

There's nothing to justify the increase. They are not difficult to obtain, they are not earned through skill, achievement or hard work, and they have no downsides whatsoever.

 

The introduction of Prime weapons turns their predecessor into "mastery experience only", which is a sad, sad state to have, especially when 70+% of weapons are already in this category. This has the side effect of making mastery grind absolutely abhorrent and deathly boring, turning mastery rank into a badge that says "I have the sanity to level these pieces of junk".

 

Hell, there's no MONEY involved in introducing more Prime weapons, so all they would create is annoyed owners of redundant gear whose investment is now overshadowed. Simply put, there's no reason for them to be straight upgrades of existing weapons.

 

Let's say you have a Latron Prime and you've put a potato on it, as well as used a few forma to add polarities. They then introduce a Latron Double Prime which has 51 damage and 15% chance to crit. How overjoyed you must be!

 

edit: If you think that obtaining the Prime weapons is hard work after the defence table reward patch, you are not mature or skilled enough for this thread and your posts are deemed irrelevant.

You Sir, Just went full retard. Never go full retard.

Edited July 14, 2013 by SawyerGriffin

[Exillian]

Never thought about it because they are so hard to get.

[Scrounge]

Just have to point out that Prime warframes do have one advantage that the normal frames can't get no matter how much you forma them, even if it's a bit of a tiny silly one.

With that out of the way...

 

The OP sounds like trying very hard to find something to be upset about.

Prime weapons are such small upgrades in a game that's already easy, that I really don't care. 

 

If my objective is to always have the best possible gun ever EVER, I'm ready to put in the effort to get the better versions when they come. 

If I'm like most players, I just look at the prime weapons and go "oh, neat, you have to forma them one less time, I guess that's really nice" 

 

If you feel "Cheated" because you put a potato in your favourite gun, and then they went and made a better one, you are just looking at it wrong, in my personal opinion. 

 

IF the game was so hard that you needed the prime versions of everything, and the dps output was so much higher that you HAD to be kitted out with prime stuff to even appear serious, then sure, it would feel kinda bad when your best in slot turns into wasted inventory space. 

But that's really, really not the case. The difference is so minute that I just play with the weapon that looks cooler, regardless of prime status to be honest. 

 

This reminds me of the MMO players who just rage at the forums every time new content comes out and their gear isn't the best any more. 

"Omg I worked so hard for it and now any noob can get a better thing!"

Well, if you had fun getting it, then it's not time wasted, and if you didn't, why did you play in the first place? It's a game. 

Edited July 14, 2013 by Scrounge

[wfrawn]

I was gonna say "Because they're rare", but apparently Prime weapons are easy to obtain?

 

Easy for people who can tolerate the repetitiveness of doing the same mission over and over, hard for people who do not enjoy repetitiveness. Not hard in the sense that's actually a difficult job to get the rare item (except for the fact that it's repetitive), especially when you've got the routine down after so many repeats.

Rare only in the sense of random number statistics. Not rare in the sense that only a few people will obtain them. The feeling of specialness some people seem to derive from these type of games is an illusion.

[Kyte]

Braton Prime: +5 (+25%) damage, +5 (+11%) clip size, 88% fire rate. Somewhat better in overall DPS (like 10%).

Bronco Prime: +5 (+33%) damage, +2 (+100%) clip size, +~90% reload time (aka 52.5% reload speed), 83.4% fire rate. A bit better in overall DPS (also about 10%), lasts twice as long before reloading, takes almost twice as long to reload.

Paris Prime: +1 V slot. +20 (44%) uncharged damage, +50 (+50%) charged damage. Straight upgrade, unless there's a change I can't see so far.

Fang Prime: +10 (+66%) normal damage, +25 (+~38%) charged damage, 50% fire rate. Actually kind of inferior.

Orthos Prime: No visible difference.

 

Aside from Paris Prime, none of these weapons is worth dropping your original if you've already upgraded it, unless you're a DPS freak and in that case none of these weapons is optimal and thus you wouldn't pay attention to them either way.

This is just a FUD thread. There's absolutely no reason to change any of these weapons except possible Paris Prime. (And Orthos Prime so it's not just a reskin. And Fang Prime so it's more like a dagger. It works as it is right now but it doesn't really match its nature)

Edited July 14, 2013 by Kyte

[CosyPigeon]

My main gripe with prime weapons at the moment, is that they kinda look a bit crappy when compared to the regular weapons, especially the Paris prime, the regular paris looks amazing, the dread also looks super cool, the paris prime looks like a surf board with string attached :/

 

I guess that's not really relevant to the OP. I suppose as a paying customer I can find it annoying if I invest a bunch of money into a piece of gear only to find out it has been made redundant next patch. But it really hasn't bothered me that much, to be honest, I'd rather that all of the weapons and gear be obtainable through game play (which they are anyway) and the DE makes a whole bunch of platinum exclusive stuff that looks @(*()$ awesome for me to throw my money at. 

 

Like that new Loki helmet, as soon as that came out, I threw my money at it like nobodies business, because it looks badass. 

 

Is my multi forma'd dread bow as powerful as the paris prime? Maybe, maybe not. Do I actually care? Not really, the paris prime looks ugly, and if I'm gonna play a game where the entire appeal is being an awesome ninja badass, there is no way I am going to use a surf board bow. 

[Ariarch]

Gotta say, a hate thread by all sides.

Could use a quick delete.

[Evauia]

This is such a poor argument.  The fact that it is a Braton Prime is for Lore/Style purposes.

 

If it was called the Ferret Flinger Prime and shot just like a Braton but better would you still be complaining?

[Shion963]

Easy for people who can tolerate the repetitiveness of doing the same mission over and over, hard for people who do not enjoy repetitiveness. Not hard in the sense that's actually a difficult job to get the rare item (except for the fact that it's repetitive), especially when you've got the routine down after so many repeats.

Rare only in the sense of random number statistics. Not rare in the sense that only a few people will obtain them. The feeling of specialness some people seem to derive from these type of games is an illusion.

 

Back then we only had two Prime weapons and one 'frame in Void.

 

Now there's seven weapons over two tables for the two 'blocks' of gametype. Which means that anyone who wants Frost, Reaper, or Latron would need to hunt for the old keys, while folks after Braton, Fang, Paris, Bronco, and Orthos would want the newer keys.

 

Say I want a Braton Prime. I have to go farm for Void keys, that's normal. But now I need to get either Defense, Mobile Defense, or Capture. Any Raid/Exterminate key is useless as it does not contribute towards getting a Braton Prime's Parts of BPs. Upon obtaining a desireable session Key and finishing, chances are I'll have one part for one of the five weapons in the new missions.

 

But the fact that farming Void keys is through the same method, there's less chance of someone getting a key to a session that they want, which reduces the amount of runs, which reduces the chance of getting a part which is contained in a large drop table filled with other stuff I don't want.

 

I tolerated the Prime debacle because back then it's a "If you get a Key, you're up in the running for Latron, Reaper, or Frost". Any key would contribute to the weapon, even with the reward pool that simply prevents anyone with a steady supply of Tier 2/3 keys to ever get any of the weapons.

Not anymore.

[Artaban]

Well once upon a time,

 

Developers stated they do not want to have 200+ weapons that'll completely overwhelm new players, where each weapon is an upgrade to the previous.

 

They wanted a small arsenal where each weapon is viable, and go for the sidegrade route.

 

oh wait...

 

(But to their credit it's extremely difficult to pull off sidegrades, because the player loses the sense of progression and interest which I did after u8. They do however need to slow down the amount of weapons being introduced. Else we'll be seeing dual braton vandal legendary extreme prime after a year or two at this rate. And there is an excessive amount of weapons out there that nobody ever uses.)

[LazyKnight]

@Shion963: DE doesn't seem to know how to manage a loot table and keeps increasing problem by adding too many items. They shouldn't have all keys drop from defense mission that just makes some keys junk drops dependent on what you have. This Void entry mechanism is annoying and I do not like the Key system at all, I got all the item for the old keys.

 

It just is too much effort to get one of the new key just for a chance at rolling the dice, lucky for me not a single one of the new weapon is something I want I am just ignoring it....With the number of keys it took just to get that last parts I needed to assemble the reaper prime I can't say its a good idea to buy keys or even farm them because it basic dumb luck if it pays off in the item you want.

 

They are making too many weapon really it getting absurd and they should be taking advantage of the weapon skins and stop flooding us with so many weapons that are minor variation of each other.

Edited July 15, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Ferriwind]

Fang Prime only has a stronger strong attack. It has weaker normal dps.

 

Orthos Prime is the exact same thing as Orthos except the look, I think.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Stygi

[seth]

There was similar thread to this one, and i wrote that there should be option to upgrade "normal" to "prime" for example:

- you have frost with potato and formas

- build frost prime

- upgrade existing frost to frost prime, and keep potato and polarities

 

This still requires player to grind, build and start with unranked prime item.

Upgrade could be an extra process in oven.

 

I wanted to put potato in Gram, and now I'm wondering about Gram Prime, and how pointless would be investment in a non primed item.

[Tesrac]

I don't mind the notion of Prime weapons/frames, but I would like to see a broader range of missions reward a broader range of keys. I never see Tier 3 raids or T 1-2 of the new keys......they could have decreased drop rates, or varied loot table, just make them drop already.

[onemoonlight]

Are they? Orthos prime has better attack speed over worse charge speed, besides that it is exactly the same weapon. How is that an upgrade? In this example, if you like charge attacks you take a normal variant, if you like normal attacks you take a prime

[Rhorge]

I don't give a toss about prime weapons. My potatoed and fromad guns won't magically get worse when a prime version comes out... People act like their weapons are not viable the instant primes are out.

[Troublechutor]

First, you didn't "work" for anything in this game.  You are playing a game... its a time wasting exercise the generates "fun" and costs you nothing but time you would have spent doing something else just as meaningless to the rest of the human race.

 

Players who spend actual money actually did "work" for their items, because that money came from a job that was productive enough to throw off excess money for that person.

 

Now that we've established that theres no superiority to the farmer as opposed to the spender, we can dispense with the notion that your items with all their "investments" are in any way better than someone elses.

 

With regard to the OP's point about upgrades, new weapons being stronger than old ones are not invalidating your old weapons.  A full power latron may be doing less damage than the prime version with the same items, but unless this is blocking you out of some content in the game, why do you care.  Your full power latron is fine, enjoy it and move on.  The prime version should be of little interest to you given the amount of time it would take to level it up and outfit it properly... or you are just complaining to complain.

 

For example, I have a paris with some goodies on it.  The paris prime holds some interest to me, but not because its a PARIS, but because it's an upgrade to my present bow.  Would you be complaining if the Latron Prime had been called HKDJHLHFJLDFL Prime?  Its just a gun/weapon... either you want it for its attributes (not its name) or you don't.

[c_man_ninja_gun]

Prime weapons are harder to get so they should just be better. It is like comparing a steak to a happy meal.

[Towermice]

There's nothing to justify the increase. They are not difficult to obtain, they are not earned through skill, achievement or hard work, and they have no downsides whatsoever.

[BladeMaverick]

The only way I see this as an issue is when dealing with both Latrons unranked. Prime has higher DPS than the normal. Yes, if both of course were equally ranked out and all 8 slots were Forma'd, then the Prime would still be the victor in a gunfight.

 

Regardless, if a player has Forma'd their Latron many times, then suddenly is introduced with the Latron Prime..at that very moment, which is stronger?

 

Think logically with me : Just because the new Prime is stronger than the one in your inventory in BASE STATS, doesn't mean that it's stronger than the one in your inventory because of HOW GODLY MODDED YOUR CURRENT LATRON IS. This being the case of either A) You don't own a Latron Prime (yet); or B) You just got the Latron Prime and haven't been arsed to rank it.

 

The ONLY way the Latron Prime is going to be in any way, shape, or form stronger than your Latron, is if you - the player - decides that you want to get the Latron Prime and rank it up to be as cool as your Latron.

 

I personally have both. I still use my Latron for when I want to shoot things down quickly because my Prime isn't fully capable of the firepower of my Latron.

 

So, in conclusion, I don't see why everyone is so rustled over a bloody weapon. It's only as strong as you make it to be.

[NoGONinja]

Make the orignal relate to the primes in the sense that a certain amount of xp for the original is required to unlock the prime Or make it mastery related