I'm calling Shenanigans! : Infestation.

[SpiderWaifu]

Just a few things that seem off to me.

Firstly - Ancient spawns aren't fixed. They will still spawn in packs of 4-6, albiet less often than before.

Secondly - I was told that Ancients are resistant to lightning, EXTREMELY resistant.

Yeah, no. When you're talking about weapon mods, Shock, and Overload, you're right. It does nothing to them.

Pop down Volt's Lightning shield, shoot through it, and an ancient that takes a full 244 ammo Gorgon Clip to down, is killed as easily as a common infested.

These are my experiences.

Edit: Electric shield OP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17ti8aQPlM&feature=youtu.be

Edited January 27, 2013 by SpiderWaifu

[Spaz]

Are you aiming for their body, head or their right boot?

Fire is damage over time

Electric is stun + a little slow (Feels like it cuts some attack as well)

Ice slow mobility, real slow if you keep hitting them

If acients are spawning up to 6, then it's either you're activating a lot of triggers, in the middle of the infestation, or your not killing them right away. Make ancients your #1 targets as they take to most amount of damage but you have to alternate between all targets so you don't get locked into a swarm. Keep your previously visited room clear so you can have some place to back up into if you meet a large horde.

It should not take more than 100 shots from even an unranked gorgon on levels 20 and below, give-take the players aim and current situation. You can't be sniper distance, just keep out of their arms reach and fire away, stun them with a melee if they're too close and back away if you have too.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Spaz

[Kokurai]

Pop down Volt's Lightning shield, shoot through it, and an ancient that takes a full 244 ammo Gorgon Clip to down, is killed as easily as a common infested.

wait...so shooting through volt's lightning shield causes elec dmg?

[SpiderWaifu]

I was fighting the Ancients in Pluto, with a lvl30 Gorgon with 9.9+Puncture, 17.8% Lightning damage and 23.7% base damage mods.

I generally aim for their head or body.

But that isn't what this thread is for.

I was told by a Dev that Ancients are nearly immune to lightning damage, and that seems to be the case for all sources of L.Damage... Except the Electric shield.

wait...so shooting through volt's lightning shield causes elec dmg?

Yes it does. And it seems to be a rediculous ammount of +elec.Damage, if it can blend up lvl50 ancients easily, who are supposed to be highly resistant to lightning.

[Kokurai]

hmm...but need puncture mods....roger...gonna try =)

[SpiderWaifu]

hmm...but need puncture mods....roger...gonna try =)

If you're saying you need a puncture mod to shoot through the shield, you're wrong there.

Shield can be shot through by all of your allies.

[KGeddon]

Just a few things that seem off to me.

Firstly - Ancient spawns aren't fixed. They will still spawn in packs of 4-6, albiet less often than before.

Secondly - I was told that Ancients are resistant to lightning, EXTREMELY resistant.

Yeah, no. When you're talking about weapon mods, Shock, and Overload, you're right. It does nothing to them.

Pop down Volt's Lightning shield, shoot through it, and an ancient that takes a full 244 ammo Gorgon Clip to down, is killed as easily as a common infested.

These are my experiences.

No. You are wrong on all counts. This is a completely false post.

wait...so shooting through volt's lightning shield causes elec dmg?

No, see above.

I was fighting the Ancients in Pluto, with a lvl30 Gorgon with 9.9+Puncture, 17.8% Lightning damage and 23.7% base damage mods.

I generally aim for their head or body.

But that isn't what this thread is for.

I was told by a Dev that Ancients are nearly immune to lightning damage, and that seems to be the case for all sources of L.Damage... Except the Electric shield.

Yes it does. And it seems to be a rediculous ammount of +elec.Damage, if it can blend up lvl50 ancients easily, who are supposed to be highly resistant to lightning.

I am sure the devs speak to you on a regular basis. Or you could simply have checked my damage testing.

edit:Also, BTW, fire stuns infested. lightning stuns corpus. Freeze cuts speed by 50%. This is all. There are no other secondary effects. There is no DoT, non-vunerability elements do not "have a chance to stun".

Edited January 27, 2013 by KGeddon

[SpiderWaifu]

No. You are wrong on all counts. This is a completely false post.

Do you know what the phrase "These are my experiences." means?

This is what I have observed.

Electric shield does give some sort of damage boost. Enemies die much faster when you shoot through it.

I am sure the devs speak to you on a regular basis.

I never said they talk to me, but they DO post in these forums sometimes, and do answer some questions.

You really 'ought to try to not come across as condescending and snark about this.

[KGeddon]

Do you know what the phrase "These are my experiences." means?

This is what I have observed.

Electric shield does give some sort of damage boost. Enemies die much faster when you shoot through it.

I never said they talk to me, but they DO post in these forums sometimes, and do answer some questions.

You really 'ought to try to not come across as condescending and snark about this.

Your experiences are wrong. You have observed results incorrectly and posted the wildly incorrect conclusions. Please do not spread misinformation.

[SpiderWaifu]

Your experiences are wrong. You have observed results incorrectly and posted the wildly incorrect conclusions.

Yeah. Okay. I think I'm done with you.

[Keagian]

I think someone mention that shooting an ancient in their right foot actually does more damage then shooting their body.

[SpiderWaifu]

I think someone mention that shooting an ancient in their right foot actually does more damage then shooting their body.

This thread isn't about where to shoot ancients. It's about their spawn rate being sometimes wonky, and lightning damage being weird with them.

[UkyoSonoda]

Massed ancient spawns generally happen in my observations when 1 of 2 things happens.

1. People are activating multiple rooms without clearing them.

2. You killed the Golem boss on Jupiter.

Also on the lightning shield thing. Nah I never observed bonus damage shooting thru it. Otherwise a lv 50+ ancient on Pluto would have instagibbed when I shot it with a Hek.

[KGeddon]

I think someone mention that shooting an ancient in their right foot actually does more damage then shooting their body.

Acutally, it's their feet/shins/forearms/hands. Normal damage-1x flat, AP damage -1x flat, Fire -2x flat, Freeze -1x flat, lightning = 0

Their body is heavily armored, and the % mitigation of normal/fire/freeze damage types increases with level(per level armor gains). AP does 1x flat damage.

Their head is also armored, but less so than the body. AP does 2x flat damage.

Spider used poor testing methodology.

First, incorrect minimization of random factors and maximization of useful datapoints. Do not use a full auto gorgon. It generates more numbers than you could possibly evaluate unless you FRAPs and advance frame by frame. Additionally, you cannot know what zone you hit(in all probability, the "inconsistent" damage observed was actually the hands moving across the body in walking/charging animations and therefore causing flat normal damage instead of the heavy mitigation normal damage recieves in the body area). In fact, you cannot even assume that all shots are hitting, as missed shots give no feedback.

Second, incorrect assumptions before observations begin. Such as that TTK is consistent("Enemies die much faster when you shoot through it."). No obervations were made as to the level of the ancients, and point 1 indicated random factors are present.

Third, introducing bizarre assumptions to fit incorrectly observed results. This would probably be filed under confirmation bias. An irrational conclusion has been reached and is only vaguely talked about. That is because it is a figment of Spider's imagination.

edit::Make what you will of http://youtu.be/xzMeJVWfXfk . This is poor testing methodology at work.

Edited January 27, 2013 by KGeddon

[shoultzilla]

Just started testing Electric Shield because I've noticed a few of those as well.

Shooting through Electric Shield, in fact, DOES add Electric damage. Whether this is intended or not is unknown. Was tested on two naked weapons. A level 30 Strun and a level 13 Batron. BOTH dealt added Electric damage and stunned Corpus crewman.

Currently still testing out whether or not damage is increased. I did drop a Corpus crewman halfway across the map with a single shotgun blast.

Edit : There is a noticeable difference in the amount of shots it takes to drop ancients. From 6-7 modded with 17.9% Electric damage to half of that, 3-4 unmodded through Electric Shield.

Edited January 28, 2013 by shoultzilla

[KGeddon]

Just started testing Electric Shield because I've noticed a few of those as well.

Shooting through Electric Shield, in fact, DOES add Electric damage. Whether this is intended or not is unknown. Was tested on two naked weapons. A level 30 Strun and a level 13 Batron. BOTH dealt added Electric damage and stunned Corpus crewman.

Currently still testing out whether or not damage is increased. I did drop a Corpus crewman halfway across the map with a single shotgun blast.

Edit : There is a noticeable difference in the amount of shots it takes to drop ancients. From 6-7 modded with 17.9% Electric damage to half of that, 3-4 unmodded through Electric Shield.

I guess I owe Spider an apology. There is indeed something dodgy going on. After Shout posted his test, I went back through and tried it again. There's some weird numbers and they're in the wrong places.

This is a crit from a 0 mod level 30 latron, base damage 48, crit multiplier 2.2. On shooting a crewman in the head, a crit popped out. There is a gun damage x 2.2 (yellow 105 right above the gun mode) is actually coming out of the shield I think(normally it originates at the bullet impact) and has a really high upwards velocity somtimes( this one only appear on 3 frames). The 212 at the bullet origin is actually 48x2.2x2, which is a double damage headshot crit. This second shouldn't be happening if it's normal damage, but the normal damage is at the gun(presumably this is the shields doing an "additional hit") and the headshot is probably lightning(not sure why it isn't straight 4x). This would probably be why ancients are getting hit, as it doesn't seem to be lightning or normal damage.

Hmmmmmm, actually, good catch Spider, and thanks for testing independently Shout. Whenever I tried it before I never caught the weird number shooting out of the shield. And again, I apologize Spider.

Edited January 28, 2013 by KGeddon

[SpiderWaifu]

It's fine that you didn't believe me at first, what with me not showing any numbers, just a video of me shooting things and my own experiences, instead of actual numbers.

Just... Try not to come off so snarky about it.

I'll admit, I do not understand this damage-number nonsense. I just look at how fast the enemy's HP bar goes away.

[shoultzilla]

Yea, I just tested on Dix on Pluto because the original test was on 19 Ancients somewhere in Jupiter and even on Dix, there was still a highly noticeable damage increase shooting through Electric Shield. I guess use it while it lasts as I don't think it's intended.

[KGeddon]

It's fine that you didn't believe me at first, what with me not showing any numbers, just a video of me shooting things and my own experiences, instead of actual numbers.

Just... Try not to come off so snarky about it.

I'll admit, I do not understand this damage-number nonsense. I just look at how fast the enemy's HP bar goes away.

That's because there are no extra numbers. Ancients are lightning immune. The number shooting out of the shield was lightning(and immune hits don't show). Instead, you actually ignore armor and apply straight damage. This 48 is off a body shot which SHOULD have been mitigated to 10(48 normal damage vs level 11 ancient). There were no extra numbers, and each shot I fired I waited to ensure that the screen was clear.

Edited January 28, 2013 by KGeddon

[SpiderWaifu]

That's because there are no extra numbers. Ancients are lightning immune. The number shooting out of the shield was lightning(and immune hits don't show). Instead, you actually ignore armor and apply straight damage. This 48 is off a body shot which SHOULD have been mitigated to 10(48 normal damage vs level 11 ancient). There were no extra numbers, and each shot I fired I waited to ensure that the screen was clear.

I've heard all sorts of different things from people.

Some say it boosts the straight damage, or it adds lightning, or even that it lowers the base damage, and replaces it with lightning.

I really just want a full, definitive answer. Yours seems to be the best so far.

I was partially right, but in the wrong way. It does do more damage (Either because of a straight boost, or ignoring armor) and not because of lightning.

[KGeddon]

Here's a chest shot on a level 17 Grineer lancer. The 48 popped out of the shield, and the hit was for 7 damage. It's getting mitigated by the grineer's armor correctly.

edit:No, actually, the 7 is the lightning. Read the wrong column. Shooting through the shield applies a 48 damage armor ignoring shot, which is annoying me by moving between the shield and the impact point(showed on the shield for Grineer/Corpus, but at the impact point for Infested). The 7 is a half damage lightning hit being mitigated(But it's not a normal lightning hit, Possibly your normal damage as lightning, mitigated by armor, halved for a body shot, multiplied by 2 if it hits a corpus) I dunno.

Edited January 28, 2013 by KGeddon

[KGeddon]

One more before I'm off to bed. A shield hit. 48 came out of my lightning shield, and a 24 for a body shot(48 halved for a body shot, but not multiplied for hitting corpus because the shield is frost vunerable, not lightning vunerable.)

This looks more and more like a bug. The unusually high upward velocity of the full normal armor ignoring damage number and the way it only shows on the bullet impact if the mob is lightning immune(ancients). If this were planned, it should have always been showing on the shield or the impact, not moving around.

[Yurt]

Kgeddon what you're saying makes no sense at all. You don't need to solve the problem, that's the dev's job. The bug is that lightning damage is being done to infested ancients when it shouldn't. Testing on corpus and grineer is pointless.

[KGeddon]

Kgeddon what you're saying makes no sense at all. You don't need to solve the problem, that's the dev's job. The bug is that lightning damage is being done to infested ancients when it shouldn't. Testing on corpus and grineer is pointless.

It isn't lightning damage that's being done to ancients. There is only one number if you shoot an ancient. There are two if you shoot a corpus/grineer, with one of them getting modified as lightning(mitigated by grineer armor, doubled vs corpus), the other showing up the same as an unmitigated normal damage shot.

I'm beta testing this game. You mad?

[Yurt]

Not really, just wondering why you're doing this. Okay, so you just contradicted yourself then. If it's being mitigated by grineer as lightning and doubled by corpus for lightning AND it's being shot through the electric shield than it's most likely lightning damage.