Players Going Off By Themselves Killing Things Miles Away

[SmallPaws]

This lowers the amount of available mobs for everyone else to benefit off of, the overall enjoyment of the other players and team play. Those who do this should be penalized very harshly.

DE has also mentioned that they need to implement a feature that increases team play rather than running off alone to kill.

 

I offer a solution:

Every kill that is outside of a certain range of the rest of the team will cause the player to lose affinity rather than gain it. So long as there is another teammate in range of the player, they will not be losing any affinity. There is no "experience" to be gained when that doesn't offer fair play and discipline.

Also, a feature like this can be implemented where the more players that are in range of each other will have a multiplier added to their affinity gain:

0 players in range: -100% Affinity

1 player in range: 100% Affinity

2 players in range: 115% Affinity

3 players in range: 130% Affinity

 

 

As for solo play, every enemy that gets out of a certain range will also cause the player to lose experience and this will reset once the player has killed 10 enemies. What this does is create a gameplay where the player can occasionally kill and still rush without being penalized.

 

I know this seems harsh but there needs to be a disciplinary check in place for all players to enjoy the game. If one were to unfairly gain affinity apart from the rest of the game then there is no point for online play, and there's always the option of solo play, yet players think they benefit more highly in group play due to the heightened number of mobs.

 

It is clearly a rant but also a point in which DE has also discussed to be an issue in this game in which needs to be addressed. They have made round-about methods by implementing doors and other motion-inhibiting features into the game that have had no avail. A more direct approach is necessary to prevent players like this from ruining the game.

 

If I may offer an anecdote as to how this ruined the game from my perspective:

I ran a Sedna Kappa run to gain some experience for some of my weapons, as it being one of the better places to regularly gain affinity. There was this new player that was experiencing the game and this mission type for the first time.

Another player joined the game and ran down the hallway killing everything in their path leaving nothing for this new player to kill. So the new player and I sat and waited the full 3 minutes for a mob to come so we could get a kill. Nothing came. I complained to the player that entered that they were ruining the fun for the both of us and then they accused me of being (slanderous words) so I proceeded to report them of course. At that point I could not care as much for affinity as I did for how that person may have ruined the experience of a new player entering the game and making my experience as well as the new player that much greater with one player in the population.

 

I know that this game is expanding but the population of players dies quickly when gaining affinity is gimped by other players rushing through content for selfish needs without an incentive to even play the game for enjoyment.

Let me provide an example:

If Terminus or M. Prime had a reasoned to be farmed, how quickly would someone new to the game be turned away when all they see is a level 30 clear the entire map of enemies?

 

That is my argument and solution as to why players who selfishly gain without consideration of other players need to be harshly and strictly penalized.

Edited July 7, 2013 by SmallPaws

[DaftMeat]

Vote-kick please.

[Satwo]

i disagree.

nothing in specific, pretty much the whole thing.

[SmallPaws]

i disagree.

nothing in specific, pretty much the whole thing.

 

Offer an explanation as to why you would disagree?

[SmallPaws]

Vote-kick please.

 

I believe that a vote-kick system would be abused and that DE has held off on this vote-kick idea primarily for that reason. With only 3 payers available to make a vote, things could go one-sided very quickly in a vote.

[Jon_Blumer]

Well if you ask me there could be a few things changed to help this. For one: Shared affinity? But this still wouldn't fix the aspect of lack of butt-kicking. As for that I can't help you there. But overall this is too harsh. You mentioned it not catering to players who take their time, well DE must still cater to those who like to runoff on a murderous frenzy. 

[SmallPaws]

Well if you ask me there could be a few things changed to help this. For one: Shared affinity? But this still wouldn't fix the aspect of lack of butt-kicking. As for that I can't help you there. But overall this is too harsh. You mentioned it not catering to players who take their time, well DE must still cater to those who like to runoff on a murderous frenzy. 

 

 

We already do have shared affinity. But here's where the situation gets worse. Only the player who kills gets the affinity and those in range of them. The others in range or not will depend on how the affinity is shared, so it's a big middle finger to those who want part in this affinity gain but can't gain any thanks to one particularly selfish player.

Edited July 7, 2013 by SmallPaws

[Chebarus]

I feel that the solution you've proposed doesn't account for the AFK players. If you're playing in a team of 2, and the other player idles at spawn, would you be unable to complete the mission without severe de-leveling?

 

Also, I disagree strongly with having these penalities in place for solo players. If you're playing solo, you should be allowed to play however you want.

[XxKharrxX]

Vote-kick please.

No no no no no.  Voke kicking would be horrible.  I hardly ever run in groups because of the amount of people with their friends that troll.  VTK would just enable friends to kick out people to troll especially on much needed alert missions.

 

Too many kids just want to rush through content, it happens in every game that comes out.  There is always that group of people that beats the game in 3 days, gets everything maxed out in another day or 2 and then complains not enough content.  Sorry but try to slow down and actually enjoy the game.  There is plenty of content and if you seriously rush through a game and beat it in a few days then cry boredom, you seriously need some outside activities.

 

I do find it annoying when I group up for alerts there is always that 1 guy that sprints way ahead to kill off the alert.  Not really sure what can be done to fix it but, it does ruin the experience for the rest of the group who may want to spend time killing and exploring.  I get that you can always party up with a clan team or friends but some times they just are not available.

[SmallPaws]

Well if you ask me there could be a few things changed to help this. For one: Shared affinity? But this still wouldn't fix the aspect of lack of butt-kicking. As for that I can't help you there. But overall this is too harsh. You mentioned it not catering to players who take their time, well DE must still cater to those who like to runoff on a murderous frenzy. 

 

Oh and DE did mention they might implement a feature where you could choose your typical gameplay style and get paired with others who play similarily. I feel as if this will be abused as well. Let's say for example, someone chooses the slower-based gameplay only to rush on ahead and benefit in the other players stead who actually want to loot/explore.

[SmallPaws]

I feel that the solution you've proposed doesn't account for the AFK players. If you're playing in a team of 2, and the other player idles at spawn, would you be unable to complete the mission without severe de-leveling?

 

Also, I disagree strongly with having these penalities in place for solo players. If you're playing solo, you should be allowed to play however you want.

 

For solo that might be too harsh now that I think about it, but then again DE mentioned that they don't want players to just fly their way to the exit.

[XxKharrxX]

 

Also, I disagree strongly with having these penalities in place for solo players. If you're playing solo, you should be allowed to play however you want.

This ^.  I get people want to play with each other in teams, but there are just as many players (myself included) who don't have patience to party up with other people for many different reasons.  I like to go through the missions and farm everything I can where as the average player just wants to blaze through and complete.  This means I will have to spend most of the time solo playing.  Also, games should not force you to play with other people just like it should not force you to play solo.  The option to do either should be there as many people enjoy both aspects of gaming.

[iPrevenge]

I disagree, as well.  You can't penalize players for wanting to run around and spam their ultimates because they enjoy doing so.

 

Even if it does make everyone's exp all wonky at the end and get extremely annoying when trying to level a gun/melee, they still have a right to do so, should they please.

 

Edit: Plus, it's really not very much fun when everyone is forced to stand together in a group, every single time.  Sometimes I do it, sometimes I run around and kill things.  I need the freedom to be both types of players, when I'm in the mood.

Edited July 7, 2013 by iPrevenge

[XxKharrxX]

The hard part about running around as a group is that the hallways most of the time are too narrow for more than 2 people to shoot at a time.  Often times I find myself shooting the back of a friendly instead of the enemy because people love to stand in the way instead of off to the side and shoot in.  I understand why they have friendly units blocking shots (it would be unrealistic if you could shoot through them) but frankly I think this IMO is a big factor to why people also do not want to group up.  I find it really annoying even when I play with my friend.  He loves to dive in with his melee and blocks most of my shots and it gets annoying.

[SmallPaws]

I disagree, as well.  You can't penalize players for wanting to run around and spam their ultimates because they enjoy doing so.

 

Even if it does make everyone's exp all wonky at the end and get extremely annoying when trying to level a gun/melee, they still have a right to do so, should they please.

 

Edit: Plus, it's really not very much fun when everyone is forced to stand together in a group, every single time.  Sometimes I do it, sometimes I run around and kill things.  I need the freedom to be both types of players, when I'm in the mood.

 

 

The hard part about running around as a group is that the hallways most of the time are too narrow for more than 2 people to shoot at a time.  Often times I find myself shooting the back of a friendly instead of the enemy because people love to stand in the way instead of off to the side and shoot in.  I understand why they have friendly units blocking shots (it would be unrealistic if you could shoot through them) but frankly I think this IMO is a big factor to why people also do not want to group up.  I find it really annoying even when I play with my friend.  He loves to dive in with his melee and blocks most of my shots and it gets annoying.

 

 

The area in which you still gain affinity as a player will be substantial enough to where you're not limited to a hallway yet not absurd enough to cover half the map. Something reasonable.

[SmallPaws]

I disagree, as well.  You can't penalize players for wanting to run around and spam their ultimates because they enjoy doing so.

 

Even if it does make everyone's exp all wonky at the end and get extremely annoying when trying to level a gun/melee, they still have a right to do so, should they please.

 

Edit: Plus, it's really not very much fun when everyone is forced to stand together in a group, every single time.  Sometimes I do it, sometimes I run around and kill things.  I need the freedom to be both types of players, when I'm in the mood.

 

 

Freedom is a touchy issue. Although I'd prefer not to, let's take in the U.S. constitution for example, where everyone is claimed to be free to do whatever they want. Does that mean the freedom to murder? To steal? To deny another's freedom?

 

The freedom for you to do what you want takes away from the freedom of another to do what they want to do, which is probably the same thing. There must be limitations on how much you can enjoy yourself at the expense of others.

[SmallPaws]

I feel that the solution you've proposed doesn't account for the AFK players. If you're playing in a team of 2, and the other player idles at spawn, would you be unable to complete the mission without severe de-leveling?

 

Also, I disagree strongly with having these penalities in place for solo players. If you're playing solo, you should be allowed to play however you want.

 

 

As for the afk issue, there should be a timespan on the idleness of a player before a vote-kick is summoned. This will allow the teammates the choice to wait or continue. And the degree of time would also be something fair: some length which accommodates a small period of afk enough for that player to accomplish something afk and not extensive where it would have to make the players wait. If the players decide not to kick the afk player they will have a moment where they can continue off on their own without affinity loss until the afk player returns into their range.

 

The only issue with this that I see is the current falling out of the map bug. This just needs a fixing and all affinity-appropriate dispersions will be applied.

[starcolt]

i dealt with this to, i was in a team with 3 guys and 1 of them ran so far ahead and stole all the kills and the other 2 tried chasing him, now i kept telling everyone to wait up and let me catch up because i was collecting resources as well for my blueprints. i ended up not getting to the end in time when i started to run for it and it made me feel like i wasted a good 20 minutes. i didn't get any of the stuff i looked around for and practically no experience.

 

also another problem i ran into ide like to bring up is i was playing with a team and this one guy kept stealing all the ammo, but he wouldn't kill anything and just ran away. he hit just the lockers and other containers then ran for the exit and sat there waiting, we need some way of stopping that to couse it was a boss level and me and the other 3 had to kill the jackle with only our sidearms and swords couse we had no ammo. 

 

last thing ide like to see change is the ending system, in many fights i do the higher level guys steal all the recourse and stuff, ide like to see somthing to where all recourse and items and so on get evenly divided between the players, i dont like to play alone most of the time because i like having a extra shooter i can rely on to watch my back well i watch his. but ialso dont like spending a lot of time going though a level and getting nothing for it, maby add in something to where you can buy resorces with credits (not platinum!!) like maby 50,000 credits for 10,000 common, 50,000 credits for 1,000 uncommon and 50,000 for 20 rare or something like that, so even when you are not getting resources or dont know where to go to get a certain resource or hell even just got bad luck and cant find a lot. that u can save up credits to buy the resorce your after and save yourself from a lot of frustration. 

 

now not everyone will agree with me but all i have to say to those people is try looking at it from a perspective of someone who is new or isnt all run and gun get though the level as fast as possible kinda tactic. i like to take my time and formulate a strategy for each advance and grab recourse and refill ammo and stuff when i can. now if u did that would u be happy if someone ran ahead of u and just took everything and didn't even wait or just ran by all the enemy and killed the target and left you to die? now i can understand you may like being powerful and being able to run though and run past everyone and get the job done quick or that your only intention is the recourse or maby u just like to see a field of people dead in front of u by ur hand, all i ask is u take and just wonder how the other plays in ur team may feel. why not once in a wile just ask someone "hay do u need ammo? ill mark it for you" or maby "hay need a hand?" witch brings me to another point, add some kind of in game trade thing where if ur alliy is low on ammo u can spare a clip or 2 so he or she isnt a open target. now yes i know my veiws may be a bit to "restrictive" or "traditional" but the best way o win something is to work together not just pop in and act like ur on solo just dragging along some random people. 

 

please comment on my ideas things can get done better when more people put in there opinion and come to a agreement.

[SmallPaws]

i dealt with this to, i was in a team with 3 guys and 1 of them ran so far ahead and stole all the kills and the other 2 tried chasing him, now i kept telling everyone to wait up and let me catch up because i was collecting resources as well for my blueprints. i ended up not getting to the end in time when i started to run for it and it made me feel like i wasted a good 20 minutes. i didn't get any of the stuff i looked around for and practically no experience.

 

also another problem i ran into ide like to bring up is i was playing with a team and this one guy kept stealing all the ammo, but he wouldn't kill anything and just ran away. he hit just the lockers and other containers then ran for the exit and sat there waiting, we need some way of stopping that to couse it was a boss level and me and the other 3 had to kill the jackle with only our sidearms and swords couse we had no ammo. 

 

last thing ide like to see change is the ending system, in many fights i do the higher level guys steal all the recourse and stuff, ide like to see somthing to where all recourse and items and so on get evenly divided between the players, i dont like to play alone most of the time because i like having a extra shooter i can rely on to watch my back well i watch his. but ialso dont like spending a lot of time going though a level and getting nothing for it, maby add in something to where you can buy resorces with credits (not platinum!!) like maby 50,000 credits for 10,000 common, 50,000 credits for 1,000 uncommon and 50,000 for 20 rare or something like that, so even when you are not getting resources or dont know where to go to get a certain resource or hell even just got bad luck and cant find a lot. that u can save up credits to buy the resorce your after and save yourself from a lot of frustration. 

 

now not everyone will agree with me but all i have to say to those people is try looking at it from a perspective of someone who is new or isnt all run and gun get though the level as fast as possible kinda tactic. i like to take my time and formulate a strategy for each advance and grab recourse and refill ammo and stuff when i can. now if u did that would u be happy if someone ran ahead of u and just took everything and didn't even wait or just ran by all the enemy and killed the target and left you to die? now i can understand you may like being powerful and being able to run though and run past everyone and get the job done quick or that your only intention is the recourse or maby u just like to see a field of people dead in front of u by ur hand, all i ask is u take and just wonder how the other plays in ur team may feel. why not once in a wile just ask someone "hay do u need ammo? ill mark it for you" or maby "hay need a hand?" witch brings me to another point, add some kind of in game trade thing where if ur alliy is low on ammo u can spare a clip or 2 so he or she isnt a open target. now yes i know my veiws may be a bit to "restrictive" or "traditional" but the best way o win something is to work together not just pop in and act like ur on solo just dragging along some random people. 

 

please comment on my ideas things can get done better when more people put in there opinion and come to a agreement.

 

 

I don't think allowing resources the be bought with credit is a solution to the root of the problem. But yes, this unfair gameplay is an issue which stresses the more explorative player.

[Winterbraid]

I agree that rushing is a problem, but your solution is bad. It's all stick but no carrot, it won't make people in public games play as a team, it will just make them rage on the forums. Remember what happened when they nerfed slide?

 

I hate the idea that a squad has to consist entirely of people who all maintain the formation at all times and move forward at the same pace as if they were a single body, this sounds like something out of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. This is a computer game, not an elementary school where everyone has to slow down to the level of the slowest kid around.

 

Besides, how will your system tell the difference between the ones being left behind and the ones rushing ahead, in a game that features dead ends and - in the future - possibly multiple routes? How will it tell the difference between a sneaky sniper that likes to shoot enemies from a distance and a melee brute that charges straight into combat? How will it recognize a coordinated and friendly team that has simply agreed that some of them care more about resources while others care about kills, and the former will go exploring while the latter will focus on killing and will occasionally wait for the other part of the group?

 

If you want to truly enjoy the early game of any online game that allows newbies and veterans to mingle - then you go solo or private; this isn't exactly something new or secret. The new player you're talking about will have to learn to be fast too sooner or later, otherwise they might never build their own frame or gather enough resources for their coveted weapon. A game that is all about being fast, efficient and well-geared yet punishes players for being fast, efficient and well-geared is up to a short life.

 

 

If you want to fix rushing then fix the cause, not the symptoms. Take away the reasons why people rush and then you will have solved the problems.

 

- Fix the affinity per enemy level curve, currently it sucks and higher-level enemies take much longer to kill but hardly give more affinity than low-level ones. Make it so it pays off more to turtle through high-level missions than rush through low level ones.

 

- Automatically rank down people's modules and frames when they enter low level maps. They'll be much more cautious when their Serration drops down to rank 1 and their shields and health get cut down to 200.

 

- Make it so it pays more to slow down and explore. Add mods and more rare resources to lockers, hide the best stuff behind team doors, platform puzzles, and/or super-elaborate and uncipherable hacking minigames. Void is a step in the right direction and hopefully they are already working on making the other levels be like that.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Winterbraid

[WhisperByte]

- Fix the affinity per enemy level curve, currently it sucks and higher-level enemies take much longer to kill but hardly give more affinity than low-level ones. Make it so it pays off more to turtle through high-level missions than rush through low level ones.

True. Currently a simple heavy gunner gives as much xp as Kela de Thaym

- Automatically rank down people's modules and frames when they enter low level maps. They'll be much more cautious when their Serration drops down to rank 1 and their shields and health get cut down to 200.

I disagree. This just creates artificial difficulty, kills any sense of progression and punishes players for even trying to rank up their mods.

[Winterbraid]

 

I disagree. This just creates artificial difficulty, kills any sense of progression and punishes players for even trying to rank up their mods.

 

Not at all? They will still have their full power in the higher level missions, where they truly need it. I neither need nor should have the full power of my gear when I start a Mercury or Saturn mission for whatever reason.

 

As for low level defense, gradually unlock more power as you clear waves.

[SmallPaws]

I agree that rushing is a problem, but your solution is bad. It's all stick but no carrot, it won't make people in public games play as a team, it will just make them rage on the forums. Remember what happened when they nerfed slide?

 

I hate the idea that a squad has to consist entirely of people who all maintain the formation at all times and move forward at the same pace as if they were a single body, this sounds like something out of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. This is a computer game, not an elementary school where everyone has to slow down to the level of the slowest kid around.

 

Besides, how will your system tell the difference between the ones being left behind and the ones rushing ahead, in a game that features dead ends and - in the future - possibly multiple routes? How will it tell the difference between a sneaky sniper that likes to shoot enemies from a distance and a melee brute that charges straight into combat? How will it recognize a coordinated and friendly team that has simply agreed that some of them care more about resources while others care about kills, and the former will go exploring while the latter will focus on killing and will occasionally wait for the other part of the group?

 

If you want to truly enjoy the early game of any online game that allows newbies and veterans to mingle - then you go solo or private; this isn't exactly something new or secret. The new player you're talking about will have to learn to be fast too sooner or later, otherwise they might never build their own frame or gather enough resources for their coveted weapon. A game that is all about being fast, efficient and well-geared yet punishes players for being fast, efficient and well-geared is up to a short life.

 

 

If you want to fix rushing then fix the cause, not the symptoms. Take away the reasons why people rush and then you will have solved the problems.

 

- Fix the affinity per enemy level curve, currently it sucks and higher-level enemies take much longer to kill but hardly give more affinity than low-level ones. Make it so it pays off more to turtle through high-level missions than rush through low level ones.

 

- Automatically rank down people's modules and frames when they enter low level maps. They'll be much more cautious when their Serration drops down to rank 1 and their shields and health get cut down to 200.

 

- Make it so it pays more to slow down and explore. Add mods and more rare resources to lockers, hide the best stuff behind team doors, platform puzzles, and/or super-elaborate and uncipherable hacking minigames. Void is a step in the right direction and hopefully they are already working on making the other levels be like that.

 

 

All stick no carrot? There's a great incentive to stick to your party as it increases your affinity gains by 30%. And there's room for improvement: If there are fewer players in your party then you can still get that 30% gain with only 3 players, 2 players or even solo. It's just dependence on your team that will enforce away from unfair gameplay. The cap will be placed at 130% for all available numbers of players in the party.

 

I don't see how this relates to moving in formation is an issue. And like I said, there will be leniency to the range of how far you can go before you start losing affinity. Slowing down for the slowest kid around? So what you imply is that it is fair to leave a slower warframe behind because you have the faster one. I don't see how that is fair gameplay, either.

 

And as for your questions. Distance. And multiple routes? How will that be implemented in the game when players selfishly choose the best route? If it's the issue of one player focusing on enemies while the other focuses on loot, then a balanced portion of loot and enemies must be implemented to keep both players engaged while doing different things that allow for them to proceed at the same pace.

 

You make the point of the game being fast and efficient. I think you mistake this with gameplay. DE clearly states that they want a fast-paced gameplay without blowing through content. They want the content to be steady and long-term-based. That is entirely different from how you play the game when you enter a mission and this is what DE strives for: long-term goals through fast-paced missions.

 

And as for the new player learning to be fast, restrictions may apply to them: They may have a slower warframe, offensive-lacking warframe, support-based warframe. All of these players may not even be new but still need to be able to stay with the team to get a wholehearted experience instead of having other players blow through the mission leaving them behind.

 

And I don't see how I addressed the issue incorrectly. The cause is the players want of affinity, not the affinity itself.

 

-I agree with you on the affinity based on how high leveled you are. A drop-off on affinity will cause great incentive for higher level players to stick to their respective areas and yet allow them to experience lower level content without a penalty.

 

-Ranking down players will only cause more problems that solving any. Yes, the lower-leveled enemies will not compare to a higher ranking warframe and it should not. Players will not be happy downgrading when they have worked so hard to get their warframes where they are. I know this only applies to lower levels but much of the content of the game is still low-leveled relative to a maxed out player.

 

-I agree with more content and resources put in the lockers and exploration. As of now they aren't rewarding in the long-run. They only provide players with resources to play in that mission alone.

[SmallPaws]

True. Currently a simple heavy gunner gives as much xp as Kela de Thaym

I disagree. This just creates artificial difficulty, kills any sense of progression and punishes players for even trying to rank up their mods.

 

Nerfing is rarely the way to go, but sometimes necessary, although I think this wouldn't apply in this case. Make bosses more engaging and mobs more than just targets. The difficulty then lies in the gameplay and tactics rather than numbers, which is how most games have become as of late because players only want to see numbers and not skill.

Edited July 7, 2013 by SmallPaws

[xXlURMOMlXx]

1) this is the internet, get used to being called names, it isnt illegal, and i dont think it it a legitimate claim to report someone for

2)alot of people would abuse this and probably join peoples games just to screw with their xp gain

3) if you are playing solo, penalizing you in order to promote co-op play is just super dumb