RSI and macros/scripts/autoHotkey

[Einlanzer3]

This is my first post, apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong forum section.

 

I've a few questions regarding macros, scripts and the like, and yes I've read DE_Adam's Psa: Autohotkey Ban Qualification thread, as well as some of [DE]Danielle's posts.

I've RSI on my left hand, which is why constantly pressing Ctrl and shift can be sort of tiring, same with slide attacks.

Usually I get around this by using scroll wheel Up/Down or other keys (or simply spamming E with Cleaving Whirlwind when too overwhelmed).

 

As I mentioned earlier I read DE_Adams Psa, yet I'm not too sure about what is allowed and what isn't.

I don't mind keep playing like always, however it would be pretty cool to remove some multitasking from my mouse/right hand.

At the same time it wouldn't be cool at all if the game decides to autoban me on the spot.

 

So, what is and what isn't allowed? Do I have to wait a few seconds before using a macro again? <I don't mind waiting 10 seconds if I have to honestly.

Basically, where does the "that will get you banned" line begins?

 

Since AutoHotkey is okay, it would be awesome to have a slightly more specific answer regarding how much of it is "okay".

 

[NeithanDiniem]

10 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

It's the "should be fine" part that worries me. I know that DE isn't exactly going around banning people who spam slide attack macros, but at the same time, their posts (like the one you linked) always have a certain level of vagueness where they don't explicitly state that the macro is 100% allowed.

So if one were to be somehow hit with an automatic ban (or banned due to a harassment report from a teammate having a bad day with kill-stealers), then Support would be fully within their right to refuse to unban the account under any circumstances. Which, according to the horror stories I hear about one or two particularly infamous members of DE's support team (who seem to often go out of their way to deny the requests), seems to be a frighteningly real possibility.

 

Until DE makes a somewhat more explicit announcement about what types of macro are 100% allowed, I think I'm going to avoid macros just in case. Thanks a lot for taking the time to do the searching, though!

They cant be specific. If they gave specifics then people would know how DE does their detection systems, allowing people to circumvent them. They have to be vague in order to actually give themselves an edge. Its the same reason why we'll probably never see an API, like some people have asked for, or see more ways to access game features from out-of-game, like we can now with the phone app. It opens up too many security holes. The moment DE gets into specifics, the more likely people are to develop ways to cheat that is harder to detect.

As I have said before, simple macros are fine. A slide attack hotkey that would trigger one slide attack with one keypress is fine. Hooking your melee or primary fire to the scroll wheel is essentially an autofire hotkey. The issue arises when people make complicated macros that play the game for them, such as fully automatic slide attack loops, or auto-aim. That is when you have passed the permitted level of automation that DE allows because you aren't just circumventing a disability or preventing fatigue at that point. As for teammates complaining about harassment; You cant be accused of harassment if all you did was play the game and killed some enemies, so keep your head and if someone gets insulting towards you just either ignore em or drop the squad, let them deal with the aftermath on their own. "Kill stealing" is by far one of the dumbest possible things people could accuse you of, and it has very little bearing on if DE is going to do something against you. With exp sharing and the general fact that the game is PvE largely makes any complaints of kill stealing be null and void. They would have to see some really messed up results from the mission or notice particular oddities to take action. They would also review the chat log of the mission in question and see about who was saying what (thus why its important to keep your head). If the person that accused you was insulting and berating you throughout the mission for no reason, they are more likely just to deal with them for breaking ToS and let you be.

Lastly, the best way to go about dealing with fear of support is to not only screenshot you sending in the ticket, the confirmation you receive of submitting the ticket, and of any additional contacts from the support team regarding your ticket would be wise. Then going to the Dev's on twitter and tweeting them can help alert them that you may have been banned automatically by the bot and you have submitted a ticket, they typically can expedite the unbanning process or look into your situation.

Edited February 14, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[TrickshotMcGee]

14 minutes ago, Einlanzer3 said:

yet I'm not too sure about what is allowed and what isn't.

It was left unclear on purpose, I think, to allow for a bit of wiggle room.

 

However, from my experience in other games the long-standing rule of "as long as it doesn't play the game for you, (and it's within reason) it's cool". Enough ambiguity to have some level of personal interpretation, but also make it clear that macros are not supposed to replace player action, merely shorten it or make it easier/quicker.

Slide attacks, bullet jumps, rolling, crouching, and the like are probably perfectly acceptable macros. However, the line is likely drawn where it requires little to no input from the user to regularly play the game.

[NeithanDiniem]

If the script is playing the game for you, it would not be permitted. If it is just to let you get around a disability and continue to play the game, it is fine. Making a hotkey to auto-press Ctrl/Shift once when you press a single key, that is more than okay. Devs have directly said that macro is fine to use.

Edited February 12, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[Einlanzer3]

44 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

 

Slide attacks, bullet jumps, rolling, crouching, and the like are probably perfectly acceptable macros. However, the line is likely drawn where it requires little to no input from the user to regularly play the game.

 

If I can spam both bullet jumps and slide attacks without having to worry about getting auto-banned then that's awesome!

Thanks for the quick replies TrickshotMcGee, NeithanDiniem!

[shut]

2 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Making a hotkey to auto-press Ctrl/Shift once when you press a single key, that is more than okay. Devs have directly said that macro is fine to use.

Would you happen to have a link to where this was said?

I've been on the fence about setting up a quick slide-attack button for myself (for convenience, rather than due to a disability), but I haven't ever seen DE explicitly state that ____ macro is perfectly fine. It's always been "macros that play the game for you are bannable", but without stating what sorts of macros would NOT be bannable.

[NeithanDiniem]

21 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

Would you happen to have a link to where this was said?

I've been on the fence about setting up a quick slide-attack button for myself (for convenience, rather than due to a disability), but I haven't ever seen DE explicitly state that ____ macro is perfectly fine. It's always been "macros that play the game for you are bannable", but without stating what sorts of macros would NOT be bannable.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:985713

As for [DE] Rebecca's post, the forum's search function doesn't seem to be finding it, so the thread may have been deleted (it wasn't locked at the time of me reading her comment) some time after she posted or it was not as new of a post as I had thought and I just didn't search back far enough (I went to page 7 of 80 of her total forum posts, so have a crack at it if you are wanting to look further, I found the post sometime before January 31st of this year, I remember that much). Essentially, If DE were to outright ban macros, it would be able to be classified as disability discrimination. There are multiple places they have posted in response to these kind of threads about using macros is fine and typically wont get you banned for simple use. You can get auto-banned by the bot if it detects odd mission results alongside the hotkey program, but you can file a support ticket to speed up their review of your account and they will unban it if they find there is no problems. Using the program is not enough to trigger a ban. To avoid being tagged by the bot, follow some basic guides; If you are going for an autofire-type macro, just use a scroll wheel. If you are going for a slide attack, make sure you don't make the macro loop the action (one press per slide attack, pretty much) and you should have no problems. Seeing as how there are even youtubers that the devs have admitted to following/watching that openly use macros for slide attacks, it should be fine as long as you follow those guides above.

[shut]

2 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:985713

As for [DE] Rebecca's post, the forum's search function doesn't seem to be finding it, so the thread may have been deleted (it wasn't locked at the time of me reading her comment) some time after she posted or it was not as new of a post as I had thought and I just didn't search back far enough (I went to page 7 of 80 of her total forum posts, so have a crack at it if you are wanting to look further, I found the post sometime before January 31st of this year, I remember that much). Essentially, If DE were to outright ban macros, it would be able to be classified as disability discrimination. There are multiple places they have posted in response to these kind of threads about using macros is fine and typically wont get you banned for simple use. You can get auto-banned by the bot if it detects odd mission results alongside the hotkey program, but you can file a support ticket to speed up their review of your account and they will unban it if they find there is no problems. Using the program is not enough to trigger a ban. To avoid being tagged by the bot, follow some basic guides; If you are going for an autofire-type macro, just use a scroll wheel. If you are going for a slide attack, make sure you don't make the macro loop the action (one press per slide attack, pretty much) and you should have no problems. Seeing as how there are even youtubers that the devs have admitted to following/watching that openly use macros for slide attacks, it should be fine as long as you follow those guides above.

It's the "should be fine" part that worries me. I know that DE isn't exactly going around banning people who spam slide attack macros, but at the same time, their posts (like the one you linked) always have a certain level of vagueness where they don't explicitly state that the macro is 100% allowed.

So if one were to be somehow hit with an automatic ban (or banned due to a harassment report from a teammate having a bad day with kill-stealers), then Support would be fully within their right to refuse to unban the account under any circumstances. Which, according to the horror stories I hear about one or two particularly infamous members of DE's support team (who seem to often go out of their way to deny the requests), seems to be a frighteningly real possibility.

 

Until DE makes a somewhat more explicit announcement about what types of macro are 100% allowed, I think I'm going to avoid macros just in case. Thanks a lot for taking the time to do the searching, though!