Take Off Attack (V) Polarity Mod Slot On Loki (Maybe Nyx Too)

[PachTrick]

DE might consider changing the "V" to "-".

It's because more of the mods useful for Loki can fit in.(Rush, Streamline and Stretch)

Rush has great effect on Loki as it's the fastest frame.(please buff the speed, it's too slow now)

Stretch increases the range of Loki's ult and Switch Teleport, so the ult has better effect and you need not upgrading Switch Teleport.

Streamline is the most important mod for Loki as its effect can stack with the effect of the helmet, with maxed Streamline and the helmet, you cast at an extremely low cost:

Decoy: 25*0.55=13.75 energy

Invisibility: 50*0.55=27.5 energy<----This means 55 energy for 24 secs of invisibility, better than using Continuity only (50 energy for 12*1.3=15.6 secs)

Switch Teleport: 25*0.55=13.75 energy

Radial Disarm: 100*0.55=55 energy

 

Although I suggest changing the "V" to "-", I think you should just save DE the trouble by buying and using a potato.

The polarity is still useful as you can put Continuity on it.

Why don't you support the game by buying some plat?

Besides, DE gave away lots of potatoes, it shouldn't be a problem to obtain a potato if you really don't have money for games.

Edited July 11, 2013 by PachTrick

[XCodes]

Although I suggest changing the "V" to "-", I think you should just save DE the trouble by buying and using a potato.

POTATOES ARE CHEAP, WHY DON"T YOU CONSIDER SUPPORTING THE GAME.

Besides, DE gave away lots of potatoes, it shouldn't be a problem to obtain a potato.

Leave. The idea that it's on the players to spend money to get around a game's design flaw, even if it is as minor as one polarity being off, is a line of thought that does not belong in any F2P game, ever.  I've bought platinum, and you know what?  Loki should still be D -.

[SanguineXIII]

There's no reason to ever not have a D slot on a warframe with a maxed out redirection slotted in it.  I am absolutely grateful for every frame that comes with one, and any of the ones I've built that didn't come with a D are polarized with one as soon as i hit rank 30 with the frame.

 

Anyone without one is doing it wrong and won't stand a chance against anything beyond level 50 for more than 2-3 seconds worth of incoming fire.

 

And to the point of Continuity only affecting 2 of Loki's powers, well, that's just something basically every frame has to deal with.  Take a look through the wiki and see at how many abilities that SHOULD be affected by certain mods that aren't...   It's staggering.

[PachTrick]

Leave. The idea that it's on the players to spend money to get around a game's design flaw, even if it is as minor as one polarity being off, is a line of thought that does not belong in any F2P game, ever.  I've bought platinum, and you know what?  Loki should still be D -.

 

The problem is that there is no design flaw.

Continuity is still a must for Loki.

Changing the "V" to "-" is just to make things more convenient and that's what potato's for.

Edited July 11, 2013 by PachTrick

[XCodes]

The problem is that there is no design flaw.

Continuity is still a must for Loki.

Changing the "V" to "-" is just to make things more convenient and that's what potato's for.

The ONLY reason Continuity is a must for Loki is because there's nothing else to put in that V polarity slot.  Get rid of the V polarity and, suddenly, Continuity is a S#&$ mod on Loki just like Rage and Focus are.  Again, Loki is my primary frame and I do not use Continuity at all, and I still go into melee in T3's, survive, and come out as top damage dealer.

 

And to the point of Continuity only affecting 2 of Loki's powers, well, that's just something basically every frame has to deal with.  Take a look through the wiki and see at how many abilities that SHOULD be affected by certain mods that aren't...   It's staggering.

It's really not even 2.  Decoy is not limited by it's timer, it's limited by it's HP, and the fact of the matter is that 12 second of invisibility is enough for Loki to do his job.

Edited July 11, 2013 by XCodes

[PachTrick]

The ONLY reason Continuity is a must for Loki is because there's nothing else to put in that V polarity slot.  Get rid of the V polarity and, suddenly, Continuity is a S#&$ mod on Loki just like Rage and Focus are.  Again, Loki is my primary frame and I do not use Continuity at all, and I still go into melee in T3's, survive, and come out as top damage dealer.

 

Well, with a potato, only Flow is not important to me as Loki has a large energy pool. (Forget about Focus)

Without a potato, a frame is not going to show its full potential(but still very nice), like Frost, you either choose to be offensive or defensive but not continuously spamming snow globes and the ult at the same time.

Loki as well, you either increase its shield and duration of Invisibility, or don't use the polarities at all, put streamline to give it ultimate power efficiency.

Edited July 11, 2013 by PachTrick

[XCodes]

Well, with a potato, only Flow is useless to me as Loki has a large energy pool.

Without a potato, a frame is not going to show its full potential(but still very nice), like Frost, you either choose to be offensive or defensive but not continuously spamming snow globes and the ult at the same time.

Loki as well, you either increase its shield and duration of Invisibility, or don't use the polarities at all, put streamline to give it ultimate power efficiency.

Why do you keep bringing up potatos? If anything, a potato makes it even more important to get rid of that stupid V slot because even if you fill up everything else you'll still have space for something to put in there.

[Jugganatha]

Well, with a potato, only Flow is useless to me as Loki has a large energy pool.

Without a potato, a frame is not going to show its full potential(but still very nice), like Frost, you either choose to be offensive or defensive but not continuously spamming snow globes and the ult at the same time.

Loki as well, you either increase its shield and duration of Invisibility, or don't use the polarities at all, put streamline to give it ultimate power efficiency.

Fun fact before I remember how to sleep, Flow is actually superior to Streamline except when you can stack both. I would always use Flow before Streamline, but I would never use Streamline without Flow.

 

Case in point for Loki: Max Flow gives 108 seconds of invisibility (450/50*12), max Streamline gives about 72 seconds and max Continuity gives 64 seconds (but I still use it to increase the duration of Decoy).

 

Edit: Alternatively, consider it this way. With 450 energy at max Flow (sans Streamline), 4 casts of his ultimate. At 75 energy cost at max Streamline (sans Flow), 3 casts of his ultimate. Both cost the same to equip and use the same polarity.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Jugganatha

[PachTrick]

Why do you keep bringing up potatos? If anything, a potato makes it even more important to get rid of that stupid V slot because even if you fill up everything else you'll still have space for something to put in there.

 

It's obvious that I don't think the "V" is stupid as I use Continuity.

If you don't like it, you can change it by using forma or using a potato to make things more convenient. It's up to you.

Edited July 11, 2013 by PachTrick

[PachTrick]

Fun fact before I remember how to sleep, Flow is actually superior to Streamline except when you can stack both. I would always use Flow before Streamline, but I would never use Streamline without Flow.

 

Case in point for Loki: Max Flow gives 108 seconds of invisibility (450/50*12), max Streamline gives about 72 seconds and max Continuity gives 64 seconds (but I still use it to increase the duration of Decoy). 

 

Well, it's when you got lots of energy globes.

Streamline can perform well at any time but Flow can't when the energy globes aren't enough.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Polarize your stuff and stop whining.

[Jugganatha]

Well, it's when you got lots of energy globes.

Streamline can perform well at any time but Flow can't when the energy globes aren't enough.

Good point. Something to consider.

[XCodes]

Fun fact before I remember how to sleep, Flow is actually superior to Streamline except when you can stack both. I would always use Flow before Streamline, but I would never use Streamline without Flow.

 

Case in point for Loki: Max Flow gives 108 seconds of invisibility (450/50*12), max Streamline gives about 72 seconds and max Continuity gives 64 seconds (but I still use it to increase the duration of Decoy). 

This is only true if you don't take into account Energy pickups or Energy Siphon.  The argument is also heavily diminished by the fact that you always start with 100 Energy, regardless of what your maximum is.  Streamline also stacks additively with Essence helm, which actually causes Streamline to have a greater net effect if you have the helmet.

 

It's obvious that I don't think the "V" is stupid as I use Continuity.

If you don't like it, you can change it by using forma or using a potato to make things more convenient. It's up to you.

I've already potatoed my frame and used 2 forma.  It doesn't change the fact, at all, that it should be a - and not a V.

 

 

Polarize your stuff and stop whining.

Does your Frost require a forma tax from you in order to function optimally?  No?  Then maybe you should shut up about whining.

[PachTrick]

 

I've already potatoed my frame and used 2 forma.  It doesn't change the fact, at all, that it should be a - and not a V.

 

 

Changing "V" into "-" would be nice but I think the "V" is fine.

The change is not necessary. 

[XCodes]

Changing "V" into "-" would be nice but I think the "V" is fine.

The change is not necessary. 

It's more necessary than removing the Snipetron from the game for lore reasons.

[PachTrick]

It's more necessary than removing the Snipetron from the game for lore reasons.

 

It's fine, something that doesn't fit the lore should not exist.

They might could have just changed the bullet of Snipeton to laser but they didn't because it means damage reduction.

Edited July 11, 2013 by PachTrick

[XCodes]

It's fine, something that doesn't fit the lore should not exist.

They might could have just changed the bullet of Snipeton to laser but they didn't because it means damage reduction.

It's not that I have a problem with removing the Snipetron, it's that having the Loki be D - instead of D V is more important the removing the Snipetron.  Since it's more important, and since the Snipetron was removed, the polarity change should be done as well.

[Troublechutor]

Loki is a defensive mobility and utility frame.  V affinities really don't make any sense at all for Loki.

I'll grant you this, until you have a continuity mod, the V polarity is just a mis-poarized vitality mod slot.  But once you get the continuity mod, you pop that baby on there and suddenly you're grateful you didn't forma that slot away.  (I almost did)

 

Switching to a "-" would just make early game mod decisions easier, but hard/interesting choices are what makes game fun to me.

 

But where you lose me, and I'm just picking on you because you're the most recent example of this... LOKI IS NOT A WEAK COMBAT FRAME!  When will people realize that if you are running loki as a wuss, you're just bad at Loki.  The only defensive mod I have equipped is redirection (not even maxed out) so that I have time to evade long enough to take very little health damage.  Thats it, I'm extremely aggressive with loki and it works just fine.

 

Post after post about how weak Loki is, not a combat frame, unable to take a punch... whatever .. you are all just bad at loki, stop playing him and please stop making posts about your reasons to change him into a submissive "evade or die" frame.

[Phobonaut]

I'll grant you this, until you have a continuity mod, the V polarity is just a mis-poarized vitality mod slot.  But once you get the continuity mod, you pop that baby on there and suddenly you're grateful you didn't forma that slot away.  (I almost did)

 

This. This so much. Continuity is boss.

[Deaths.Reap3r]

Forma.

[XCodes]

Take this example. ^

This is a pretty solid Loki setup.  Not something I'd do, myself, because I like Radial Disarm's radius just fine and Stretch is ONLY for Radial Disarm (I think the only tileset in the game that you can even throw a max range decoy on is the Corpus Outpost tileset, and even then only in the outdoor portions), but, you know, whatever.  This isn't about that.

Change that V polarity into a - polarity and what do you get?  Streamline and Continuity change places, and everything else stays the same.

[XCodes]

Post after post about how weak Loki is, not a combat frame, unable to take a punch... whatever .. you are all just bad at loki, stop playing him and please stop making posts about your reasons to change him into a submissive "evade or die" frame.

Stop playing Loki against level 20 enemies and think that your experience is the end-all, be-all of Loki play.  A level 50 Toxic Ancient will one-shot your &amp;#&#33;.  I know this because I once tried to play Loki aggressively, and one of those things caught me from behind and murdered me.

[kirauriel]

Alright, here's an Overview:

 

First, what people are for and against:

roughly 1/2 are for the V

roughly 1/3 are for the - instead of the V

roughly 1/6 are other

 

1. @PachTrick: This is rude of me, but get out. Now. Besides the fact you are promoting P2W, there's also the fact that you assume people don't potato their Warframes, which almost everyone does. In fact, if you don't have a potato on at least one Warframe by the time you hit rank 30 on your Warframe, you probably either don't like that Warframe, or don't know what you're doing. That's not the point, 60 mod capacity can still run out rather fast if you upgrade your mods, which if you haven't, see the sentence above.

 

2. To those stating Continuity is a must, you must also realize Streamline is a must as others have said as well. Beyond that, the V slot allows only one mod, while the - slot allows at least 2 and most likely more.

 

3. To those saying to polarize our stuff, your case is similar to PachTrick. First, pretty much no new player has Forma unless they buy plat or accidentally buy Forma with starting plat. Second, why should we waste a Forma while other frames don't have to? Sincerely, F*** you.

 

4. To those Banshee lovers, that is horrible, I didn't know that she started with double V. While I agree right now it sucks probably horribly, what some others said is correct, the V's do sort of fit. Obviously DE is going to add more V slot mods, but I still don't see Loki benefitting from any of those, mainly because he is more of a utility Warframe. Hold strong!

 

5. On the topic of Loki being more utility that attack @Troublechutor: Loki is squishy. That is a fact. I don't care if you think you can tank with Redirection or Vitality mods, the fact is he is weaker than most other Frames. What XCodes said is right. Plus Loki has that extra sprint speed for a reason, mobility. He has that Decoy for a reason, distraction. He has that Invisibility for a reason, avoidance. He has that Switch Teleport for many reasons, one of which is mobility. He has that Radial Disarm for a reason, to not only stun enemies, but also force them to get within melee range which a Loki, with his mobility, can easily avoid in most cases. He may not be evade or die, but he is definitely not a run in and tank Warframe.

 

6. And no one said removing the V would be a nerf, I misread someone else's post. Oops.

 

If I think of any other things to say, I'll post them, while this list goes to the OP.

Edited July 11, 2013 by ProjectRay12