Aura System Discussion 9.1.4 Thread Merger

[MrHeartless]

You say convenience purchases, but I farmed for all my weapons, frames and Potatos, I've only ever bought slots, marketplace only's and now a few forma. The majority of the forma were farmed like everything else and so this change seems all the more unfair. But I agree I am in the minority here with such a highly modified warframe, and although my gripes arent that important when compared with the effect it will have on the game as a whole, it should still be at least looked at and evaluated. Alienating all the hard-working players in the same boat as me, won't be a good move for DE or warframe.

Trust me bro, I farmed all my Forma and weapons just like you. They are not alienating you because the change doesn't affect you. Your frame is set and good to go right? You spent your own time on your favourite frames because you wanted to and the reward from doing so is still there. You can still use it to your hearts content and in the event that better mods come out, you will easily be able to fit them right away, while others will have to acquire forma and go through the very same process that you did.

[Oranjeboom]

How are they going to complete it in much less time? If you had all the formas already made and it was simply a case of releveling your frame, you could reach max rank about 2 to 3 times a day doing Kappa alone. So I dont think it changes much in that regard. Yes Forma is not as needed on Warframes but that is only for the time being.

 

I have been playing for 2 months and I still only have redirection and Vitality at ranks 6 and 5 respectively. The time sync is still and always will be, getting to a decent point where you can farm mods to rank up your existing mods. New players have it a lot harder than those who have been playing for a while do. It will take me months to max redirection and vit, let alone my damage mods... cringe.

 

To get a full build with the previous aura changes you needed 5 to 6 forma (at least 2 days of powerlvling each.)

even before, with the artifacts you needed 2-3 forma

If you didnt wanna pay you should wait for reactor and forma alerts and resources / time to built them

Now you dont, you can choose 1 of the 2 (or both)

it depends on how lucky you are with mod drops.

 

And as someone said above, game gets new players yeah..but it also has a fair amount of old players with 6 formas and reactors, ppl who spent time/resources and plat to get there, now DE just make it seem like they wasted their time

Edited July 17, 2013 by Oranjeboom

[Orthusaku]

Honestly the aura's costing mod energy should have stayed for at least 2 weeks. We never got to see how much the meta would change around it.

[F1ddleD1ddle]

Trust me bro, I farmed all my Forma and weapons just like you. They are not alienating you because the change doesn't affect you. Your frame is set and good to go right? You spent your own time on your favourite frames because you wanted to and the reward from doing so is still there. You can still use it to your hearts content and in the event that better mods come out, you will easily be able to fit them right away, while others will have to acquire forma and go through the very same process that you did.

This is my one remaining hope, I mean if they do release some uber expensive but very powerful mods then yes im good to go, but otherwise ill just have look at the stars next to my frame and be happy xD

[SetAbominae]

OP is right..

There is no reason to forma if you have a reactor

and no reason to use reactor if you have a couple of forma

There are less factors to consider making a build now.

To sum it up

-Less forma.

-If you play a caster frame, max the caster mod AND the aura mod AND max at least the shield mod...and still points left

-Utility frame you go full utility mods AND defence mods

well you get the idea..you can have everything.

There is no need for loadouts anymore if you got the mods atleast once for each of your frames

I understand people like the change since the whole , farm and build forma, choose on what frame you ll use it, re level and repeat can be furstrating, BUT it was part of what made "comming up with builds" enjoyable...

You had to make sacrifices and choose what mods fit your gameplay...

Overall its just a badly rushed change

The aura on sentinel was the best idea...plus if you had all 3 sents.. you could set lets say wyrm for energy, cube for rifle amp, shade for enemy radar....and switch em with 2 clicks.

 

You mean the part where you would spend 4 formas to be able to equip all maxed mods and "everyone would become the same" in the long run anyway?

 

I fail to see the problem here, all that happened is that the process of having all the mods in your frame got quicker, it isn't enabled only by this change.

 

Oh and by the way I'm still picking which mods fit my gameplay, surprise, I have limited mod slots.

[NessOnett]

If the boost is too much, it can be tweaked, simple.

 

So basically what you're saying is if we as players give feedback tantamount to something being wrong, the devs can change it. And yet you're trying to mudsling anyone who says anything negative about the system in an effort to minimize feedback and discredit others. You're obviously too far in denial to understand anything that's been presented to you. Hopefully DE will see past the greedy majority and do what's right for the game.

 

(Hint: According to your logic, we should start every player with every frame and weapon all pre-leveled to 30. Because everyone could get those things already, it just saves time and makes it easier for the casual player.)

[Noabettiet]

It's way more than 1%. The only reason it isn't half is because there are more greedy children than intelligent adults.

 

Counter-intuitive and toxic systems are only beneficial in the short term. But this system will quickly lead to stagnation and I surmise that this system was only enacted as a patchwork fix from the equally broken(and more anger inducing) previous incarnation...basically just done to quell the masses while they work on the actual rework.

 

But you sure must understand that the previous system, was charging energy points for something that initially didn't cost anything at all. From the perspective of an player without any "potatoed" items, exclusively the warframe, this would cost extra bad for them, it would've become an extra cost. Not to mention, there are still favorites among the auras (not many would sacrifice their slot for an scavenger one), which would leave others behind.

 

Having this side of the coin (giving mod capacity) is not too bad, it doesn't devalue our reactors/catalysts (potatoes) and can provide an interesting "buff" to those who use scavenger auras if played right ( such as making them give more mod capacity).

 

And this applies to new auras/ current auras too, that if possibly strong, reducing the +mod capacity, is kind of like an "fix", where the other side of the coin (taking mod capacity) would penalize too much. 

 

If you are worried about the difficulty being something that has been massively decreased because of this: Remember that we still have those nightmare modes/ difficulty changes.  It is already covered. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by akkerusia

[MrHeartless]

To get a full build with the previous aura changes you needed 5 to 6 forma (at least 2 days of powerlvling each.)

even before, with the artifacts you needed 2-3 forma

If you didnt wanna pay you should wait for reactor and forma alerts and resources / time to built them

Now you dont, you can choose 1 of the 2 (or both)

it depends on how lucky you are with mod drops.

And as someone said above, game gets new players yeah..but it also has a fair amount of old players with 6 formas and reactors, ppl who spent time/resources and plat to get there, now DE just make it seem like they wasted their time

Think about this logically for a moment.

Warframe is a game. It is a time consuming game. Yet it is a free to play game. To make money they need players to make purchases. Bearing in mind this is still a game, it needs to be engaging and exciting. Good games with replay value have more potential to make more money because they keep their population interested in the long term.

So you as a player, decided you wanted max everything on your frame, that's fine, its your choice, to achieve that you could have either farmed it all or bought the forma. One takes less time than the other. Nevertheless the choice was yours.

Currently this game is fun and addictive and that keeps people playing even though there is no pvp and the pinnacle are all self imposed goals. You as an individual have choices on how you want to achieve those goals, you buy or you grind. So, you are claiming that these personal goals that you set are being diminished by a feature that adds something to the landscape. As I told another above, you can still use your frame as you see fit, as was the motivating factor for forma'ing it 5-6 times in the first place.

Now, back to the point that its a game, a grindy game where you can play for months as a casual and not get very far. The very nature of this is to encourage persons who have not got the time to make purchases so they can advance and those who do have the time can play and achieve the same eventually. Now, if they do not make the game accessible to both new and old, they will lose out on repeat customers and eventually money.

Same way, it is a game, if it is too hard for players they will not stay, let alone fathom waiting two months to get to mastery rank 7 to use the cool sounding gun someone just roflstomped their map with.

You and others like you made a choice, to purchase or farm, to make your frame the way you wanted it. It is still the way you wanted it, just with extra. You cannot blame the game everytime it implements a newer mechanic that eases up on some of the older systems. If they suddenly reduced mod ranking costs by 25% the older players who have max ranked mods would still complain because of their choice to spend weeks farming xini or pluto. The change would not affect them at all but they would seek to rage about a change not geared towards them at all, but geared towards the longterm sustenance of the game they love.

I'm not saying its not unfortunate just try to understand you do not lose, but others gain.

Edited July 17, 2013 by MrHeartless

[Oranjeboom]

You mean the part where you would spend 4 formas to be able to equip all maxed mods and "everyone would become the same" in the long run anyway?

 

I fail to see the problem here, all that happened is that the process of having all the mods in your frame got quicker, it isn't enabled only by this change.

 

Oh and by the way I'm still picking which mods fit my gameplay, surprise, I have limited mod slots.

 

Yeah long run is the key...gametime and actually having a goal to work for.

Now its just too easy to be done with a mod build

 

About your last sentence, you couldnt afford max mods + abilities + shield / vitality, you had to choose between dmg, defence or a balance of both...

Now just max everything.

[NessOnett]

Edit: Let's just keep comparing apples to apples. Triple the damage on the ogris isn't equal to 14 more energy points on a warframe. Triple the base damage on an ogris would let players one shot a boss with relatively little modding. THAT WOULD break the game. ;)

 

I am comparing apples to apples. For an argument to be believed, it has to hold up to the scrutiny of an extreme. In this case these are two things that make the game HORRENDOUSLY easier and reduce variety. One is greater than the other, but that just amplifies the effect so it can be seen(I can cite any of thousands of science experiments that do the same thing). The effect is still the same though. It hurts the game. Doesn't hurt the game "as much" but it still hurts it needlessly.

[MrHeartless]

So basically what you're saying is if we as players give feedback tantamount to something being wrong, the devs can change it. And yet you're trying to mudsling anyone who says anything negative about the system in an effort to minimize feedback and discredit others. You're obviously too far in denial to understand anything that's been presented to you. Hopefully DE will see past the greedy majority and do what's right for the game.

 

(Hint: According to your logic, we should start every player with every frame and weapon all pre-leveled to 30. Because everyone could get those things already, it just saves time and makes it easier for the casual player.)

Actually, I meant if they the Devs themselves, think that the boost was too much they could adjust it. And in the end, you are still not making any valid points, and ad hominem will get you no where. Good day.

[SetAbominae]

So basically what you're saying is if we as players give feedback tantamount to something being wrong, the devs can change it. And yet you're trying to mudsling anyone who says anything negative about the system in an effort to minimize feedback and discredit others. You're obviously too far in denial to understand anything that's been presented to you. Hopefully DE will see past the greedy majority and do what's right for the game.

 

(Hint: According to your logic, we should start every player with every frame and weapon all pre-leveled to 30. Because everyone could get those things already, it just saves time and makes it easier for the casual player.)

 

The pot calling the kettle black.

 

In your posts you have assumed the following about people favouring the change, explicitly or implied.

 

-They're Immature.

-They're uneducated.

-They can't form proper arguments

 

On the other hand, your own points reek of...

 

-Pulling statistics out of your rear, 40% of what? where is the data proving that? because my behind tells me 140% of people like this change.

-Know-it-all-via-flowery-wording-syndrome : This is where you use eloquently worded empty statements and pretend they make you knowledgeable, they do not, present your arguments with data/logic and reserve the "meta words" for when you have such.

 

-

 

You are by all means allowed to give feedback, but you seem to want to give feedback while antagonizing anyone who does not agree with your feedback, in fact, your very opening post clearly goes far and beyond to imply that anyone who does not agree with your feedback (clearly coming from an opinion and not based in any actual data, may I add, therefore not being a FACT) may very well just be... well, back to the start of my post.

[MasterKT]

wait wait we getting extra mod?

[NessOnett]

Think about this logically for a moment.

 

Warframe is a game. It is a time consuming game. Yet it is a free to play game. To make money they need players to make purchases. Bearing in mind this is still a game, it needs to be engaging and exciting. Good games with replay value have more potential to make more money because they keep their population interested in the long term.

 

So you as a player, decided you wanted max everything on your frame, that's fine, its your choice, to achieve that you could have either farmed it all or bought the forma. One takes less time than the other. Nevertheless the choice was yours.

 

Currently this game is fun and addictive and that keeps people playing even though there is no pvp and the pinnacle are all self imposed goals. You as an individual have choices on how you want to achieve those goals, you buy or you grind. So, you are claiming that these personal goals that you set are being diminished by a feature that adds something to the landscape. As I told another above, you can still use your frame as you see fit, as was the motivating factor for forma'ing it 5-6 times in the first place.

 

Now, back to the point that its a game, a grindy game where you can play for months as a casual and not get very far. The very nature of this is to encourage persons who have not got the time to make purchases so they can advance and those who do have the time can play and achieve the same eventually. Now, if they do not make the game accessible to both new and old, they will lose out on repeat customers and eventually money.

 

Same way, it is a game, if it is too hard for players they will not stay, let alone fathom waiting two months to get to mastery rank 7 to use the cool sounding gun someone just roflstomped their map with.

 

You and others like you made a choice, to purchase or farm, to make your frame the way you wanted it. It is still the way you wanted it, just with extra. You cannot blame the game everytime it implements a newer mechanic that eases up on some of the older systems. If they suddenly reduced mod ranking costs by 25% the older players who have max ranked mods would still complain because of their choice to spend weeks farming xini or pluto. The change would not affect them at all but they would see to rage about a change not geared towards them at all, but geared towards the longterm sustenance of the game they love.

 

I'm not saying its not unfortunate just try to understand you do not lose, but others gain.

 

You just proved exactly why this system is terrible. And then switched sides with your last line. I can't tell if you're trolling at this point or just...well I can't think of any alternative.

[Oranjeboom]

-

 

My point was that both changes where bad...

How many ppl you saw complaining before the 1st aura change, when we had the artifacts.?

 

Casual / new players complained at first

Older players now

 

As i said another middle sollution would be great.

For example

Aura mods cost no points

or they are equiped on sents

or rank mastery gives you point specifically for aura mods.

or bring back artifacts lol.

[Gravy]

I hate this change. I prefer before the update.

 

Now you can build (mods) a new warframe very fast ...

-1 (if they still have the down vote on forum)

[Ventias]

im tired of you people.  

[SetAbominae]

Yeah long run is the key...gametime and actually having a goal to work for.

Now its just too easy to be done with a mod build

 

About your last sentence, you couldnt afford max mods + abilities + shield / vitality, you had to choose between dmg, defence or a balance of both...

Now just max everything.

 

I was already running all the utility, damage, and shield mods I wanted already, this update brings me nothing to my min-maxed frames.

 

Adding to that, one of my frames was running around with absolutely every single mod maxed and 6 extra energy.

[MrHeartless]

You just proved exactly why this system is terrible. And then switched sides with your last line. I can't tell if you're trolling at this point or just...well I can't think of any alternative.

You might as well stop replying, you are not discrediting my points, you are focusing on me. Discredit the points I made, then you'd actually be contributing to the feedback itself.

[Orthusaku]

im tired of you people.  

 

 

What do you mean you people?

[NessOnett]

The pot calling the kettle black.

 

In your posts you have assumed the following about people favouring the change, explicitly or implied.

 

-They're Immature.

-They're uneducated.

-They can't form proper arguments

 

On the other hand, your own points reek of...

 

-Pulling statistics out of your rear, 40% of what? where is the data proving that? because my behind tells me 140% of people like this change.

-Know-it-all-via-flowery-wording-syndrome : This is where you use eloquently worded empty statements and pretend they make you knowledgeable, they do not, present your arguments with data/logic and reserve the "meta words" for when you have such.

 

-

 

You are by all means allowed to give feedback, but you seem to want to give feedback while antagonizing anyone who does not agree with your feedback, in fact, your very opening post clearly goes far and beyond to imply that anyone who does not agree with your feedback (clearly coming from an opinion and not based in any actual data, may I add, therefore not being a FACT) may very well just be... well, back to the start of my post.

 

Well, not a word of that is true in the slightest. All I see from you is someone who can't form a reasonable argument against what I've presented, because you know I'm right. So have resorted to personal attacks instead in a typical internet last-ditch effort.

 

And yes, in this case I am saying you can't form proper arguments, because this isn't one. And anyone can see that there is no substance in what you wrote, just mudslinging.

 

As for pulling statistics, I never said it was fact. In fact I said it was an estimate. And I can guarantee it was far closer an estimate than the "Far less than 1%" that it was in response to.

[Orthusaku]

I was already running all the utility, damage, and shield mods I wanted already, this update brings me nothing to my min-maxed frames.

 

Adding to that, one of my frames was running around with absolutely every single mod maxed and 6 extra energy.

 

 

And that is the issue, you shoudn't be able to max out your warframe with energy left over.

[NessOnett]

You might as well stop replying, you are not discrediting my points, you are focusing on me. Discredit the points I made, then you'd actually be contributing to the feedback itself.

 

I have disproven literally everything you've written. And you continue to ignore it. All I see is contradictory statements "We should give feedback, but dont" and "The system is PERFECT, but they will change it if they need to." And you making a very strong case for why this system is bad without realizing it.

 

But I'll humor you and take you through your own logic point by point. And if you ignore me again, It'll confirm that you are in fact just trolling.

Edited July 17, 2013 by NessOnett

[Oranjeboom]

I was already running all the utility, damage, and shield mods I wanted already, this update brings me nothing to my min-maxed frames.

 

Adding to that, one of my frames was running around with absolutely every single mod maxed and 6 extra energy.

 

max shield mod and max others mods without multiple forma was not possible.

im tired to do math, but it just wasnt.

[lstalri]

Welp, that was a fun run...

 

http://puu.sh/3EEym - starting at wave 9 (I did bring this vaub in as lvl 0, but forgot to take a picture at wave 0, so oh well >.>)

http://puu.sh/3EFvU - wave 23 and the lvl 101 ancients

http://puu.sh/3EFIo - wave 25 we ran away

http://puu.sh/3EFIW - and got lots of exp :D

http://puu.sh/3EFJR - yeah...

 

Rank 0 Vauban... how is that balanced. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by lstalri