So...about Dat Lvl 124 Vor...

[kill3r_furby]

I'm sincerely hoping that that's not supposed to be happening. I gathered that one of the changes that snuck under the radar was an improved boss scaling system, but really? 124? On Mercury? I played a Golem match just to see whether the game was quite as strict on other bosses (and I wanted to see if he'd been reskinned yet), and guess what? Level 42. With at least one 30 in the game (me) and three other chaps who seemed to have sunk a fair amount of time into their characters.

 

Either give us a reason for Vor being so f**king hard, or please fix this bug. I know you'd like to discourage speeding through levels, but this is rediculous...

[AscendantWyvern]

I think they wanted to buff his level because a metric ton of people were going to check him out.

[Troublechutor]

You gotta admit, it was quite a shocker :D

 

GG DE!

[RoboticUnicorn]

Fought him, lvl 125, died twice due to not knowing about his crazy Tesla. Dropped Cronus BP, a common mod, and some Ferrite. Lel

[ImPaint]

I'm sincerely hoping that that's not supposed to be happening. I gathered that one of the changes that snuck under the radar was an improved boss scaling system, but really? 124? On Mercury? I played a Golem match just to see whether the game was quite as strict on other bosses (and I wanted to see if he'd been reskinned yet), and guess what? Level 42. With at least one 30 in the game (me) and three other chaps who seemed to have sunk a fair amount of time into their characters.

 

Either give us a reason for Vor being so f**king hard, or please fix this bug. I know you'd like to discourage speeding through levels, but this is rediculous...

Yea, that is extreme. Maybe cap it at like 50-60 (thats high for the newer players though). Also if they keep the insane lvl then I think they should buff the rewards. maybe 2-3 mods, twice as much mats and maybe a better bp(or more). 

[Helljack84]

Level 114 Vor stomping Rhinos left and right in a split second. I guess boss is now THA BAWS.

[Shotinthedark79]

I just jumped in with a few buddies, they were low levels and I had low level stuff on me as well. He was only level 54, which still is kinda high for our levels. At the very least, I think that he should be a lower level during your first encounter with Vor (new Vor). After that I'm fine with him being a high level and it being a challenge.

[tsubasakuroi]

I feel very sorry for the newbies that have to fight a high level Vor.

[Boomstick720]

I think the boss should be a significantly higher level than the other enemies, but not like level 125 on Mercury.  Otherwise we might start seeing bosses on pluto at around level 500 or so, and that would be insanity.  

 

However, overall I do like Captain Vor as a boss.  He is currently a bit high leveled now, but I like how his attacks aren't like basically paper cuts, and actually can significantly hurt you at a low level when fighting him.  I also like how he uses the cronus in CQC, summons enemies when he is getting #*($%%@ up, and uses the occasional strong attack when he has suffered some damage.  In terms of design, I really like him, because he isn't really that difficult, as all his attacks are easily dodged if you are mobile, but his attacks can be punishing if you stay in one place.

 

Is he difficult for newbies?  Yes.  Oh very much yes.

 

But in all honesty, I would rather have the boss feel... well like a legitimate "boss" rather than a really buffed out enemy.  In other words, if given the choice between two extremes in this area, I would rather vor be too difficult over too easy.  In this respect, while vor is certainly difficult now, I do like how basically all his attacks encourage one thing- movement.  

Edited July 13, 2013 by Boomstick720

[AmberScalie]

This is kind of rediculous. I'm a newish player, and I've been playing with a friend for the past few days. I was looking forward to this update, and there are a lot of neat things about it.

 

But the boss buffs? They're too drastic! What about the new players? I mean, sure if you're a veteran and you have all you need to play you can handle it. But like, seriously.

 

I don't feel this update was very successful. Only the redesigns and nick-nacks they added were. The bosses? NO.

 

And the inability to turn Nightmare Mode off on some levels is stupid.

[r0ckwolf]

will you stop complaining about them increasing the challenge NOW!!! please....dude...just.....shhhsshhhh...ok..?!

[Numot]

will you stop complaining about them increasing the challenge NOW!!! please....dude...just.....shhhsshhhh...ok..?!

 

They didn't make the game any more challenging, they just arbitrary made it more difficult by changing levels of the enemies. I'm dissapointed cause the game is just tedious now.

[AmberScalie]

No I won't. How do you expect new players to get into a game they haven't developed any skill level for to be thwomped over and over again by a boss they can't beat because it's too strong for them? You don't build an audience by making something impossible for new players to get into because the challenge level is too buffed for them. Are you stupid or something? Just because you're a ranked up, modded up, veteran player or a person who likes an impossibly hard game, doesn't mean everyone does.

[Boomstick720]

There seems to be a very dim perception at how new people play the game.

 

I understand that you don't want to make the game too difficult, but you don't want to make the game like every other snorefest shooter out there, where the first "boss" is usually so easy its insulting to the player's intelligence.  

 

I mean if you have a boss like Lech Krill to start with, then yeah thats a bit OP, but I would hardly call a boss who 1. Only has strong attacks if you aren't moving and 2. Actually tries to not get hit (a crazy idea I know) a "way to difficult boss".  

 

I mean, really the only argument I think you can make that he is too hard is how high his level is right now, or if you are going only solo all the time because you hate people and are just starting.  The first problem can be fixed very easily, and the second can be fixed with a "# of players" scaling system.

[Frostmire]

Come on guys , give the poor Vor time to revenge please . He had his &#! kicked so hard before :(

[Numot]

Krill is a good example of how a boss should be. There is a mechanic you use to beat him (damage and health aside). If Vor was like Krill he would be fun, even if he dealt low damage he could still be challenging because there is a method to beating him.

 

Bosses in this game overall are terrible. They were pathetic before, now the higher level ones are just bullet sponges. Krill was the game's one good boss, Jackal was close but not quite.

[NueHoujuu]

I'm sorry but level 114 when there are newbies in the group is a bit ridiculous for the first boss.

 

I'm all for making the game more challenging and tweaking the difficulty but that scaling is unreal.

 

That said, when I soloed him (he was 20) it felt about the right difficulty for a first boss. Not a pushover, but not killing you every 20 seconds either so I think with some player scaling tweaks he'll be fine.

[AmberScalie]

There seems to be a very dim perception at how new people play the game.

 

I understand that you don't want to make the game too difficult, but you don't want to make the game like every other snorefest shooter out there, where the first "boss" is usually so easy its insulting to the player's intelligence.  

 

I mean if you have a boss like Lech Krill to start with, then yeah thats a bit OP, but I would hardly call a boss who 1. Only has strong attacks if you aren't moving and 2. Actually tries to not get hit (a crazy idea I know) a "way to difficult boss".  

 

I mean, really the only argument I think you can make that he is too hard is how high his level is right now, or if you are going only solo all the time because you hate people and are just starting.  The first problem can be fixed very easily, and the second can be fixed with a "# of players" scaling system.

 

Okay, but you do realize new players are still getting used to maneuvering and doing things, getting used to the mod system, weapons, frames, controls, etc? Right? You realize that there are some people who are just not capable of doing those things sometimes, or just aren't that good at the game but want to play it for fun right? Or are you just another one of those ignorant types thinking only that "if you don't like it, get better at it?"

[Boomstick720]

I mean... 

 

Vor is similar to Kril in that there is a mechanics to beating him.

 

The difference is that Kril is a "zelda" boss and vor is a "metal gear rising" boss (Not as @(*()$ awesome, but its the only game that comes to mind that I think illustrates my point).

 

The way to beat Kril is 1. Run around in circles while shooting his back 2. wait for him to use hammer and then 3. attack him when frozen.  The second phase is more or less just fighting a tough enemy.

 

THe way to beat Vor is more organic really.  He will teleport and then start trying to shoot you with his pistol, which is easily avoidable and hardlly accurate to begin with.  After dealing some damage he will spawn some enemies, which you eliminate.  Then rinse and repeat.  The only catch is that he will occasionally throw Teslas at you, which can hurt a LOT if you are very low level and aren't being mobile.

 

 

Okay, but you do realize new players are still getting used to maneuvering and doing things, getting used to the mod system, weapons, frames, controls, etc? Right? You realize that there are some people who are just not capable of doing those things sometimes, or just aren't that good at the game but want to play it for fun right? Or are you just another one of those ignorant types thinking only that "if you don't like it, get better at it?"

I am aware of this, but I'm also of the opinion that you shouldn't dumb down a game to the point that even a 3 year old can play it.  Vor is not hard.  I just finished killing him solo with a lvl 3 frost frame, and 1 ability, a level 6 snipetron, and two other unranked weapons.  Was it hard?  Yes.  Yes it was.  But you know what was good about it?  I actually felt like I accomplished something.  Like I actually beat a real boss, and not just a reskinned enemy with more health and a gimmick, like almost every other boss in the game.

 

Having a boss that says "hey, you actually need to know more than just 'stand here and shoot' to win" rewards playing fast and mobile, and punishes playing the game as a cover shooter.

 

Keep this in mind as well.  I'm definitely more of a veteran, so you could argue "well you're just used to the mechanics".  While this is true, keep in mind while the option of playing solo is definitely a possibility, the game also definitely encourages playing with other people.  And I can already hear people crying "Well that's being unfair to the solo people!", to which I respond, "Deal with it".  As I said before, you can easily fix this issue through a "# of people" scaling.  

[AmberScalie]

You are rather ignorant aren't you?

[Boomstick720]

You are rather ignorant aren't you?

Nope, just confident enough to know that I have proven my point.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Boomstick720

[AmberScalie]

No you haven't. You have only supported yourself as a more advanced player in the game. Not once have I seen you support people who are newer players or who don't have a skill level similar to yours. It's just, "I'm good enough at it, so I mean oh well for the people who aren't yet".

 

People like you aggitate me. Games were made to be entertaining, challenging but entertaining. When you make a game impossible to play for newer players, it takes away the entertainment value and you lose your audience. Even if the bosses do scale to group, for those of us, a majority that prefer group play, it becomes nearly impossible at that early level to do anything to beat say, a level 124 Vor. Hell, I'm rank 30 working on decent mods and I went to a Jakal boss. Before I had no issue fighting it. Now, I found it nearly impossible.

 

You're just another elitist A******.

[Boomstick720]

Maybe you should take a break kid.

 

You're getting mad over nothing, and are taking stuff on the internet too seriously.

 

Oh and by the way, if you really do wish to make your point, the crux of your argument should not be "everyone who says otherwise is a #$&(%".

 

Just saying~

[Tempera]

Keep this in mind as well.  I'm definitely more of a veteran, so you could argue "well you're just used to the mechanics".  While this is true, keep in mind while the option of playing solo is definitely a possibility, the game also definitely encourages playing with other people.  And I can already hear people crying "Well that's being unfair to the solo people!", to which I respond, "Deal with it".  As I said before, you can easily fix this issue through a "# of people" scaling.  

I just ran through Tolstoj with a friend of mine. Thinking that the first boss of the game wouldn't be all that difficult, we took along Warframes and weapons we were leveling- a Rank 2 Nova on my part, and a Rank 3 Frost Prime on his part.

 

I had an unmodded Rank 3 Snipertron Vandal, a Rank 15 Bolto with a Rank 2 Hornet Strike and a Rank 1 Deep Freeze, and Rank 18 Dual Ethers with a Rank 2 Pressure Point, a Rank 4 Molten Impact, and a Rank 3 North Wind.

 

My friend had a Rank 18 Boltor, a maxed Despair, and a maxed Kogake.

 

We proceeded through Tolstoj, eliminating the Grineer we encountered along the way pretty handily (my Snipertron one-shotted everything). So, you can imagine our surprise when we wandered into the boss arena and found a Level 70 Captain Vor waiting for us.

 

Needless to say, we both wiped. Vor's Tesla was capable of tearing through my Nova's shields and health in less than two seconds- that is, in the time that it took me to realize that he had thrown it, stop scoping Vor out through my Snipertron, and attempt to run away. The Tesla lasted for long enough that it killed my friend before he managed to revive me.

 

Four Revives later, we had managed to get his health down to about half, but I'd come to realize that even a full magazine from my Snipertron- a good 900 or so damage- didn't even reduce his shields by half. My Bolto wasn't doing much better, with a full magazine on it doing only slightly more than half the damage a full clip of my Snipertron did.

 

So... essentially, no. This isn't an appropriate challenge for a new player.

 

He has far too much health, he deals far too much damage, and his abilities don't even flow on organically from each other like Lech Kril or the Jackal's do. If I had run this Vor as a newbie, I would have been dead long before I even realized that Vor could spawn clones of himself, or that he summoned reinforcements.

 

The game hasn't taught you to stay mobile yet- that comes later, when you start running into MOA's and Ancient Infested. The game hasn't given you the advantages you need to overcome significant amounts of health and shields.

 

That said; there may be level scaling involved. If there is, and it's likely that new players might run into a Level 10 Vor, tops, then sure, it might be a bit more appropriate (albeit still full of bullS#&$). But as it stands now? Haha, no. F*** no. This challenge is completely inappropriate for the first boss a player might fight in the game.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Tempera

[AmberScalie]

That's not my argument. Kid? I'm 21 years old. I was playing this game casually with a friend of mine and thought it was fun until they overbuffed everything.

 

My argument is that the game is nearly impossibly for newcomers to play at all unless they are playing and mooching off of high ranked people right now. Let alone, some of the bosses are even too difficult as it is now. I don't mind an increased challenge on a reasonable level. Not a, "Let's beef up everything insanely" level.

 

Pay attention, just saying~